Posts from your questions regarding the game rules (improving the interpretation). Auto-translated

Danya, what is the fundamental difference between the two game objects in this specific situation? Doesn't it seem illogical to you that if Dark Knights were standing next to the Vivs, everything Dark did would be completely permissible, even according to the letter of the law, even though the essence of the benefit from flying for reconnaissance wouldn't change? And in general, there would be no difference at all; it's just that in one situation, it's somehow allowed to do so according to the letter of the law, and in another, it's somehow not.

In the comments to the rules, there is an analysis of such a situation


It says the following: The passage from the Tower starting zone to the center is guarded by two GO - Gold Dragons and Sultan Efreet. The Blue player has the right to break through either guard of their choice. They can go out onto the sand and pass by the shifted dragons to break through the efreets. Also, to attack the efreets, you can use Angel Wings, Flight, or Dimension Door.
Gremlins from the external dwelling can be taken without breaking through the GO.

Nothing in this rule needs to be changed; it should only be added that using control in such a case is only allowed to avoid a battle with one of the GO, and before breaking through your own GO, it is forbidden to move through the treasure zone cells free from GO.

In this picture - the GO - Efreets are also shifted deeper.
II.2.6.2. If the guard of the passage between zones is shifted deeper into the neighboring zone, it is allowed to pass into that zone to eliminate it
Therefore, I believe that it is allowed to walk through the empty treasure zone cells only across the two sand cells to the left of the efreets.
Using wings - to fly over the hive and the imp pit on the sand to the GO Efreets is forbidden.

Danya, what is the fundamental difference between the two Global Objectives in this specific situation? Don't you think it's, to put it mildly, illogical that if Dark Knights were standing next to the Vivians, for example, everything Dark did would be completely permissible, even according to the letter of the law, even though the essence of the benefit from scouting wouldn't change? And in general, there would be no difference at all; it's just that in one situation, for some reason, it's allowed by the letter of the law, and in another, it isn't.

Are you reading what I'm writing? In post #66, I directly stated that in the Gomunguls-Darkello match, according to the current rules, Darkello committed a violation.

But I also wrote that this violation is not obvious and is a result of an error in the rules, as in similar situations (multiple Global Objectives or a Global Objective shifted deeper into the respawn area), Darkello's action would be legal.

Misclicks are a player issue, not a rules issue. Just like knowing the order of attacks when moving onto a cell that borders two guards simultaneously.

Here's an example with a picture: when Golden Dragons and Ifrits are in the same passage, standing together, you choose which one to attack first, the one with wings or the second one. But here, he flew past the mountain spawn point, went through the treasure, and broke the Vision. Even if there were other units standing with the Vision, he shouldn't have flown like that (the point of view of those who think Dark is wrong).

This does not negate the fact that there was a violation in this game and an incorrect decision by the judges.

When I encountered this situation in this game, since it was a tournament game, I decided to ask the tournament judges about it. I myself had played quite a bit of Jebus Cross at the time and was guided by the rule of breaking through the ГО in Jebus Cross — to enter the center, you can break through any guard of your choice. One judge was against it, claiming he interpreted this rule as a violation — when you step onto the sand, you cannot do this because the ГО guard is not broken, and it violates the rule — exiting to the center only after breaking through the main guard. But the screenshot clearly shows there is an external dwelling of gremlins and Tower terrain, meaning you can go there, and from there strike the efreets.
I believe that if a player is allowed to choose which guard to break, then it is possible and should be done. Who is to blame that the generator creates things crookedly? Certainly not the player. Why exacerbate the situation is not very clear.

You are all looking at the situation from the perspective of common sense. But you need to look at it from the perspective of the rules, old or possible new ones.

It is very difficult to correctly formulate in the rules the difference between flying on a wisp from left to right (as Dark did) and flying on a wisp from top to bottom (as on an ifrit in the other screenshot).

In order to introduce a strict and clear concept of "illegal scouting" or "illegal moves," it would require a lot of text, and even then, there is no guarantee of success. And even if such a rule correctly describes Dark's situation, it is not a fact that it will describe other similar situations equally correctly.

Therefore, I say that the rule should be simplified.

Added 3 minutes later
It depends on what is considered the "judges' decision." If "Dark's action is allowed by the rules," then yes, it is a mistake. But if "Dark's action violates the rules, but there is no need to punish him for it," then it is correct.

By the way, is it possible to take the Goblin Outpost?! After all, it will provide a bonus for the desert.

Maybe I'm writing something silly, but perhaps we could attach this picture to the rules as an example, marking what is allowed and what is not? As a precedent, so that we can refer to it in future disputes.

By the way, can we take the gremlins' hideout? After all, it will provide a starting point for the desert.

If we say that a player can only take the !gremlins' hideout! after they have !!explored their starting town!!, then when you hear it, it sounds like a complete facepalm.

To the owner of the snows - Yes, both are allowed and will repaint the hideout in turn, and if one spends the night in the hideout - how can the other repaint it - if he warned that the guard is not broken and it is not allowed to attack - is that absurd?! or whoever gets there first is right
2.6.3. It is allowed to enter the adjacent zone without breaking the guard of the passage in order to visit an object belonging to the zone in which the player is located.

Here, it's just facepalm, but imagine that this hideout is a little further away, and to reach it, you have to walk through the center. As you said - "illegal reconnaissance!!!"

Plus, there is the problem of spending the night on the sand (see the game Dau-Logistics).

Therefore, it is easier to prohibit it.

The images are suitable for illustrating the rule, but not for formulating it. In a different situation, a different image would be appropriate.

For example, a little higher, skd drew arrows showing the flight path to the ifrits, and it is not obvious to me how to formulate a rule within which the right red arrow would be legal, and the blue arrow would be illegal.

The option "allow flying in any direction, as long as it is in a straight line and without stops" is much easier to interpret.

The formulation can be based on the following statement: To break through one of the multiple guard towers (GTs) and/or a shifted GT inside the treasury, the trajectory when moving from one's spawn point to the treasury zone should be as short as possible and end on a cell near the GT to be broken. The first action in the treasury is breaking the GT. This rule also applies to cases where a GT is broken using air control.

Then the question arises as to the interpretation of the phrase "should be as short as possible." None of the red arrows meet this criterion; the shortest possible trajectory is the horizontal segment of the brown arrow.

I mean the shortest possible movement path directly along the trail – the brown path covers 2 trail cells and then initiates an attack. The red paths go through the Guardians of Order dragons, which are standing on the snow, and the movement takes 2 cells directly across the sand. The right red path – first, we position ourselves on the respawn cell to the right of the dragons, and then attack the Guardians of Efreet along the shortest possible path.

The phrases "I mean" are not suitable for the text of the rules. Also, various images are not suitable.

The rule needs to be formulated in text and in a general form, suitable for the entire range of possible situations.