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Posts from Chess timer: step 1. Add time for the battle. 4 polls in one topic!
I would prefer that the following is added to the listed battle templates:
68
voters
Multiple choice
Public votes
Closed
2014-07-21
This poll is closed.
Less than 30 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
7.4%5 votes
from 30 to 90 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
61.8%42 votes
from 91 to 150 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
25%17 votes
more than 151 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
2.9%2 votes
less than 30 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template
2.9%2 votes
from 30 to 90 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template
52.9%36 votes
from 91 to 150 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template
29.4%20 votes
over 151 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template
5.9%4 votes
less than 30 seconds on the Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, and Anarchy templates
5.9%4 votes
from 30 to 90 seconds on the Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, and Anarchy templates
58.8%40 votes
from 91 to 150 seconds on the Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, and Anarchy templates
19.1%13 votes
more than 151 seconds on the Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, and Anarchy templates
1.5%1 vote
less than 30 seconds on the 2SM4d(3) templates, balance, Panic
17.6%12 votes
from 30 to 90 seconds on the 2SM4d(3), balance, and Panic templates
60.3%41 votes
from 91 to 150 seconds on the 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic templates
16.2%11 votes
more than 151 seconds on templates 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic
2.9%2 votes
Pit for LM
12 years ago
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Determining the values for the chess timer is the first step. On average, how much time does a player need for a battle on different map templates?
I reviewed the results of our numerous discussions and polls regarding the chess timer. Unfortunately, I didn't see any clear and definitive values. A forceful solution to the problem will cause periodic emotional outbursts, and tournament organizers will not have an adequate response to this. Therefore, we need to determine some average values for all timer parameters, taking into account the opinions of all forum players. We have both beginners, slow players, and fans of blitz games... By determining something average, we will get a starting point for tournament organizers, who, based on this and the specifics of their tournament, can set the default timer values. If both players are happy with a different value, they always have the option to agree.
We will determine the average values using the method proposed by Wicc, with a clarification from Dirty_Player.
That is, we will first determine the time added for a battle for different groups of map templates. When choosing options, consider the strength of the neutrals, your battle speed, and how much time you are willing to give your opponent for all of this. You must provide 4 answers - one for each group of map templates. If you have never played on certain map templates or you don't care, don't provide any input. If you made a mistake, write in the thread, and I will take it into account when summarizing the results.
Provide your answer for each group of map templates. I prefer that the time added for a battle is:
less than 30 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia) from 30 to 90 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia) from 91 to 150 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia) more than 151 seconds on XL+U templates (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
- this is the first group - XL+U templates - you need to click on one value.
less than 30 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template from 30 to 90 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template from 91 to 150 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template more than 151 seconds on the Jebus Cross XL-U template
- this is the standard Jebus - click once.
less than 30 seconds on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy templates from 30 to 90 seconds on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy templates from 91 to 150 seconds on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy templates more than 151 seconds on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy templates
- L+U templates with companions and Anarchy - another checkmark.
less than 30 seconds on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic templates from 30 to 90 seconds on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic templates from 91 to 150 seconds on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic templates more than 151 seconds on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic templates
- L templates without companions - another answer.
The poll will last for 3 weeks.
After summarizing the results for the time added for a battle, I will conduct a poll on the time added for a turn, with the already determined fixed time for a battle, also for 3 weeks. Then, knowing the turn + battle time, we will vote for 3 weeks on the starting time. And by the beginning of autumn, we will obtain an averaged value for the chess timer for the forum. Tournament organizers will set the default chess timer values based on these results and the specifics of their tournament.
Pit for LM
12 years ago
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Summarizing the results.
We consider the average arithmetic value for each group of templates to be the preferred time across the entire HoMM3 forum: (0 seconds x the number of votes for less than 30 seconds) + (60 seconds x the number of votes for 30 - 90) + (120 seconds x the number of votes for 91 - 150) + (180 seconds x the number of votes for more than 151 seconds) / total number of votes. Rounded to 15 seconds.
The post is invisible and deleted to avoid any desire to influence the result.
Last edited on 06/30/2014 at 16:31. Post restored on 07/29/2014, 11:08.
Pit for LM
12 years ago
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Dirty_Player
Polls about the timer are just ridiculous.
That's exactly what I'm saying. There are 3 parameters, and I don't understand how to create a correct poll with a choice of several options. However, we still need to decide what people are playing. Many people want to play with a chess timer in the seasonal mode, so the rules should have default settings.
Dirty_Player
12 years ago
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Pit for LM
I was thinking the same thing. There are 3 parameters, and I don't understand how to create a correct poll with a choice from several options. However, we should still decide what people are playing. In the seasonal league, many want to play with a chess timer, so the rules should have default settings.
Moreover, separate polls should be created for different types of maps. Divide the maps into groups (perhaps by size) and base everything on that. Although some play 16:8:1 on any map and are happy with it.
Wicc
12 years ago
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Pit for LM
I was thinking the same thing. There are 3 parameters, and I don't understand how to create a correct poll with a choice from several options. However, we should still decide what people are playing. In the seasonal league, many want to play with a chess timer, so the rules should have default settings.
We need to conduct a separate poll for each parameter.
First, regarding bonuses for a battle.
Then, once we have the results for the battle bonus, we vote on the daily bonus.
Then, we vote on the starting time.
And yes, we should divide the templates into several groups, for example:
1) XL+U (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
2) XL-U (Jebus)
3) L+U with companions (Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia)
4) L+U without companions (CM, Anarchy)
5) L-U (Balance, Panic, TDD)
6) M
Non-standard templates or variations like Jeb-L or 8xm8a-L are at the discretion of the tournament organizers or by mutual agreement between the players.
You can send Anarchy to join Diamond’s group, and Smite to join Balance’s group.
Pit for LM
12 years ago
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We still need to find a compromise regarding the values for the chess timer.
Please read the first post of the thread carefully and answer how much time you need for battles on different map templates:
less than half a minute,
from half a minute to 1.5 minutes,
from 1.5 minutes to 2.5 minutes,
more than 2.5 minutes.
dom2
12 years ago
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It's all too cumbersome – in that case, it would be better and clearer to remove the third parameter altogether – the Battle. It isn't independent anyway and is perfectly regulated by the first two. And if there's no difference, why create more options?
Any value above 1 minute will lead to stalemates in battles, as well as pauses in simple battles, where players will spend time thinking about what to do next on the map – without the timer running. A value of 1 minute per battle is ideal. Complex battles should take time from the first two timer values, as should exploring the map.
Everything is too cumbersome – in that case, it would be better and clearer to remove the third parameter altogether – Battle, as it is not independent and is quite well regulated by the first two. And if there is no difference, why create more options?
Personally, as an organizer of tournaments, I am interested in the correlation between the result and the level of the players. I believe that for the Novice, Seasonal, and Favorites tournaments, the values will need to be varied somewhat. Novices in the early stages of their careers play an average of 1-2 battles per day, but spend significantly more time on each battle.
The_
12 years ago
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I already wrote that this method of determining the chess timer settings won't suit everyone. For example, I would be fine with a 1-minute battle time, but only if the starting timer and the additional time per turn are 16+8. If we break it down into three different polls, as Vick suggested, the number of possible options will approach millions and billions, and it still won't be possible to get a clear answer, which, as I understand it, was the purpose of this poll. In that case, you'll have to compromise and choose something in the middle.
However, the ultimate goal is for the chess timer to exist in the rules and become ingrained among players, so I support the topic. Thank you, Pete, for officially raising the poll and making it visible.
P.S. I would also like to wish that the values are not "artificially" inflated just because someone hasn't played or is afraid that they won't have enough time. Because the chess timer in its current form (for example, in War of the Magi) doesn't have any real meaning, since playing with unlimited time versus playing with a chess timer of 24+8+1 on HotA+U, for most players (including me), is no different. In a decent number of games, I've only met two people for whom the 24+8+1 timer (and its analogs) on HotA+U caused them to run out of time. In all other cases, it's 40-60 minutes+ on the timer by the third week. So, what's the point of such a timer? It's much more interesting when the timer is felt, and the seconds you accumulated in the previous turn become invaluable in the next, more difficult turn. And the games will be more dynamic and, most importantly, faster.
Erutan Rivol
12 years ago
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In Jebus Cross, as in Panic, it seems to me, you need a large timer for the fight: the guards there are stronger
For most people (including myself), playing a game with an anime theme and a chess timer of 24+8+1 on HL+Y doesn't make any difference. In a large number of games, I've only encountered two people who were put under time pressure by the 24+8+1 timer (and its equivalents) on HL+Y. In all other cases, it's 40-60 minutes+ on the timer by the third week. So, what's the point of such a timer? It's much more interesting when the timer is felt, and the seconds you accumulated in the previous move become invaluable in the next, more difficult move. And the games will be more dynamic and, most importantly, faster.
Well, then organize separate blitz tournaments, like in chess, if you find it interesting when the timer is felt.
Any value higher than 1 minute will lead to deadlocks in battles, as well as freezes in simple battles, just to give players time to think about what to do next on the map – without wasting the timer. A 1-minute battle time is ideal. Complex battles should take time from the first two timer values, as should exploring the map.
I agree. :smile20:
Erutan Rivol
12 years ago
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I agree with The_: the charm of the game fades when it takes almost 2 hours to complete. Reducing the time to 20+6+1 will lead to a more dynamic confrontation.
