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#5354
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Oh my god, where do you get all these LiveJournal posts?
ICQ 239312697
Spring 2014
In reply to Wicc
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#5355
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Wicc
Here's how a democratic police force works - http://atmanproject.livejournal.com/59510.html
This just proves that they also have isolated cases of individuals who, under the guise of the law, assert themselves through such actions. Overall, it's pointless to even compare their law enforcement system to ours. There, the officers work for a decent salary, which is very motivating. In our case, people join the police force for undeclared income.)))
I would really like it if people in our country weren't afraid when they see a police officer, but rather perceived them as they should be in essence.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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#5356
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Yanukovych and the Attempted Coup 25.1.2014 15:42
Between 2010-2013, those dissatisfied with Yanukovych waited for the presidential elections. Yanukovych and his inner circle were busy rapidly consolidating business assets and absorbing the media. Ukrainian politics had been clan-based even before Yanukovych, but elections to the Rada and presidential elections remained republican in spirit—meaning there was still a possibility of changing power through elections. Now, however, a significant part of Ukrainian society began to fear that instead of upholding young Ukrainian republican traditions, Yanukovych intended to use his first term to create the conditions for an unchangeable "personalist regime," essentially establishing his own version of "putinism." But these were still only fears and assumptions.

At the end of November, a cooperation document with the EU was to be signed in Vilnius. In the first half of 2013, this "Vilnius process" seemed quite routine. Yanukovych had been dealing with European integration issues even under Yushchenko. Ukrainians viewed the expansion of cooperation with the EU with healthy skepticism. There was no hype or unjustified hope surrounding this Vilnius summit. It was believed that Ukraine would never be included in the European Union, and everything else were simply "roadmaps" stretching into infinity. At best, one could count on visa-free entry (which Russia also claims).

And it is at this point that Yanukovych unexpectedly provoked a severe political crisis. He demonstrated the worst of what he was suspected of. After all, by the standards of Eastern European democracies (as Ukrainians already viewed themselves), making or rejecting strategic decisions about cooperation with the East or West is impossible except through open debates, consultations with the opposition, and referendums—in other words, through all the open political mechanisms for reaching consensus familiar to Europe.

For example: in Ireland, a referendum (2008) first voted "against" joining the eurozone, and a year later, a repeat referendum voted "for." The issue of placing missile defense systems in the Czech Republic and Poland was not put to a referendum, but one was demanded. Meanwhile, parliamentary debates lasted a year, all political parties spoke out, government members held different positions, and they could express them publicly. In Portugal, for instance, the issue of abortion had to be put to a referendum.

In other words, if the President of Ukraine had doubts regarding the course toward European integration and the Vilnius agreement, Ukrainian society expected an open policy on this matter. Instead, Yanukovych carried out a series of closed political actions—negotiations in Beijing and Moscow, and made a number of confusing statements. Thus, he showed that his financial and political assets were already sufficiently consolidated to transition to a closed "personalist regime." At that moment, a significant part of Ukrainian society regardless of where they lived—and not just "Westerners" or "Kyivans"—clearly felt: this is a "betrayal of democracy." This feint by Yanukovych was direct proof that there would be no free elections in 2015.

People took to the Maidan. Between December 1 and 15, there were weak attempts at active action from the opposition. Then they stood peacefully for a long time—over a month—hoping that Yanukovych and his circle would come to their senses and return to an Eastern European format of internal politics. That is, there would be negotiations, debates, and arguments. Instead, Yanukovych locked himself away in Mezhyhirya. He began to demonstrate his intention to "wait it out." This significantly worsened the situation. It convinced both the political opposition and ordinary citizens who disagreed with the "betrayal of democracy" that Yanukovych intended to act like Putin: wait until the energy of the protest dissipated, and then strike society with a series of targeted blows—bribing some, imprisoning others, forcing a third to be silent under pressure or pushing them abroad. Between December 15 and January 15, the situation seemed to freeze. A large series of analytical publications appeared claiming that the Maidan lacked sufficient political tools, had no agenda, and no leaders. Publications also appeared stating that Europe and the USA had stepped back and would not put pressure on Yanukovych.

All this apparently strengthened Yanukovych and his advisors in the belief that the Maidan was becoming "ghettoized," turning inward, and losing the active attention of society. As a result, Yanukovych would be able to ride the wave of "lack of alternatives"—creating a typical situation of transition from a weak democracy to a "personalist regime."

Lack of alternatives is an important term for understanding the mechanisms of forming personalist regimes. In Russia, it was introduced by political philosopher Mikhail Gefter when analyzing the emergence of Stalinism. But it operates not only in authoritarian regimes. A lack of alternatives arises as a result of several factors, both natural and managed. Pitting the opposition against each other, creating an atmosphere of "yes, we are bad, but the next ones will be even worse," inflating the threat of "uncontrollables" coming to power, implicating others in repressions, etc.—the main result of these factors should be a public atmosphere of loyalty to the leader amidst a complete "unimaginability of an alternative." None of those who became leaders of a "personalist dictatorship" were inherently bolder or smarter than their contemporary politicians before its establishment. But many managed to create a situation where competing political groups and their leaders appeared compromised in the eyes of the masses. The political landscape as it were sinks—and against this sinking background, a conditional "Mussolini," "Salazar," or "Stalin" begins to appear as an unchangeable figure, the sole guarantor of all balances. "There is no alternative!"
In January, suspicions that Yanukovych was steering things in this direction grew; there were no actions on his part toward public policy.

And suddenly on January 16, the Party of Regions pushed a package of "anti-extremist documents" through the Rada. This gesture clearly indicated: Yanukovych is following the Putin scenario. He intends to wait it out and then "criminalize" the protest and the opposition. On January 19, well-known Ukrainian journalist and activist Mustafa Nayyem wrote pessimistically in his blog: "In negotiations, Viktor Yanukovych will speak from a position of strength. No compromise should be expected. And do not lose your head: regardless of the result of the negotiations, arrests will begin in the country—cruel and ruthless, without noise or dust. While we were in shock at the new reality, they were working in it and gathering materials for criminal cases.

We must think about how to help those arrested... Staying together and not getting lost is most important right now. Otherwise, society will sooner or later be infected by the virus of fear, which will undermine the protest far more effectively than the Berkut."

Earlier, throughout January, stormy debates on strategy took place on the Maidan and around it: some insisted on "peaceful standing," apparently hoping to lead the Maidan up to the elections. Many observers wrote that no strategy other than a "revolutionary" one—i.e., seizing buildings—would create a real threat to Yanukovych's regime. Others argued that seizure would not help either. Those who opposed the opposition's use of force (seizing buildings and clashes with VV and Berkut) believed that the only real factor for possible success was military units and their commanders switching to the side of the protesters, as well as a public refusal to support Yanukovych by influential business representatives and regional leaders.

On January 19-20, the most mobilized part of the Maidan—right-wingers and football fans—attacked soldiers and "Berkut." Molotov cocktails were used. Security forces had orders exclusively to defend buildings and preserve personnel, but they had no order to counter-attack the assailants. The battle continued for nearly a day using bats, smoke bombs, flashbang grenades, and paving stones. It led to a large number of casualties on both sides. Yanukovych stated that the introduction of the new package of laws would be suspended. The next day, reports appeared that the Rada had declared its readiness to vote for the introduction of a state of emergency, but by evening this report was disavowed.

Yanukovych met with Klitschko and then simulated a "round table with the opposition" without his own participation.
How will all this end? It is impossible not to see that fighting the protesters contains both risks of total loss of control for Yanukovych and, conversely, the strengthening of the "lack of alternatives." The calculation that the more aggressively dissenters behave, the stronger the fear of the passive part of society becomes—may be justified. And in the 2015 elections, Yanukovych will win due to "passive loyalty."

But this is hard to believe. Even political analyst Mikhail Pogrebinsky, who is loyal to Yanukovych, as seen from his interview, sees too many errors in Yanukovych's political management.

The scheme of "abandoning Vilnius," taking Putin's 15 billion, calculating on the forceful suppression of the opposition, and the unwillingness or inability to create a consensus through public political procedures around simultaneous movement toward both the East and West—all this is an extremely crude political style. It shows society too clearly that Yanukovych wants to be "Putin-2." And for Ukrainian society, this says only one thing: one group intends to seize power for many years, abandon the format of Eastern European democracy, bury the "ideals of the republic," and establish a "personalist regime" managing "Corporation Ukraine."

I think Yanukovych could have carried out such a "right-wing coup" in Ukraine. But not at the end of his third year of rule. And—even more so—not on the basis of such a crude plot as abandoning Vilnius and "going under Russia for money." Yanukovych provoked a political crisis of a scale that exceeds his personal capabilities as a politician. In my view, Yanukovych no longer has ways to escape suspicion that he is creating a Putin-style personalist regime that will deprive Ukrainian society of an "alternative" for many years.
Весна 2013.
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#5357
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Roger-ua
Too lazy to read everything, but look, in Heroes you have own "cannon fodder" specifically intended for the grind in the Dragon Utopia, right?)) And in real life there is identical cannon fodder that some NN heroes simply don't feel sorry for. Just imagine for a second that someone truly doesn't care about this same meat. Especially when it's one that joyfully climbs into the meat grinder itself—while money, own-money, and all that are just like an afterthought)))
Honestly, it's actually become scary now. Mom calls, says she can't sleep at night, she's worried—war is closer than ever. And to those morons who are currently screaming "glory to the heroes," a low bow for that...
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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#5358
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Berkut took a female volunteer from the medical service to the forest, beat her, and left her to die. 555 v_n_zb January 25, 15:20 In Kyiv, Berkut took a volunteer from the Maidan medical service, Alexandra Khailak, to the railway station, confiscated her documents and medicine, and beat her. This was reported on his Facebook page by activist Konstantin Vetrov. "The girl is a volunteer from the Maidan medical service. She is 22 years old. Yesterday (January 23), she went home, and at the railway station in Kyiv, her documents were checked, and they saw her Maidan badge," the activist said. "The police immediately called Berkut. They arrived and took her out of the city in a civilian car to the forest, took away her asthma medication and documents, hit her in the kidneys, and left her in the forest. She barely made it out of the forest, gasping for breath from asthma," Vetrov added. According to Maidan activist Igor Zhdanov, Berkut took Khailak to various district police stations in Kyiv, but none of them wanted to accept her. "They said that there is a special district police station for Euromaidan supporters, where they are accepted," he added. Journalists who know the volunteer note that "the girl is so fragile, so touching." 777 And then the police get offended by calls to "deal with" these rabid dogs? And their families should feel the full "pleasure" of the notoriety of their fathers, who are inhuman. Let their families suffer as much as the families of those whom these scoundrels kill and maim.
Весна 2013.
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#5359
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Javdet
this only proves that they also have isolated individuals who, under the guise of the law, assert themselves through such actions.
Well, wasn't it the same on Maidan? The leadership of "Berkut" condemned the story with the undressed activist.

In my opinion, it is obvious that Berkut has a clear order - to keep Maidan within certain limits, if possible, without resorting to violence, and especially without killing anyone. Therefore, all stories about Berkut's atrocities are either lies or someone's unauthorized actions in violation of the order.
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#5360
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Wicc
Isn't it the same on Maidan? The leadership of "Berkut" condemned the story about the naked activist.

In my opinion, it is obvious that Berkut has a clear order - to keep Maidan within certain limits, if possible, without resorting to violence, and especially not killing anyone. Therefore, all stories about Berkut's atrocities are either lies or someone's unauthorized actions in violation of the order.
Yes, it's the same. And also, to compensate for childhood grievances and to have fun on Twitter.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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#5361
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Roger-ua
Yanukovych and the attempted coup d'état 01/25/2014 15:42
Well, in general, everything is written correctly, only a minus sign was placed, and a plus sign should have been placed.

The fact is that as long as the games of democracy continue in Ukraine, everything that we are currently observing will happen. This could be seen in the past 20+ years. Well, they will oust Yanukovych now, elect Tymoshenko again, and in 5-10 years they will have to hold another Maidan.

Therefore, no matter how events unfold, the finale will be approximately the same - when the population gets tired of the constant chaos, it will vote for some kind of Pinochet, and that will be the end of democracy. Or he will seize power by force, and the population will silently support him.

The whole question is when this will happen, and who will be that Pinochet.
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#5362
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I'm getting a bit tired of the same old arguments. How many times can we argue about what's better – the EU or Russia? It seems to me that both options could be good economically. Enough about that. The other day, I heard an interesting theory from some influential people: apparently, Putin and Yanukovych couldn't reach an agreement, so the destabilization and radical actions of the Maidan were orchestrated by Putin. They say he's now as interested as any other Western figure in overthrowing Yanukovych and installing a more loyal president, such as his close associate Medvedchuk. But I don't quite understand how this can be achieved without a violent scenario. We'll see what happens. I just hope there's less bloodshed; everything else is just minor details.
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

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#5363
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Alexander Yarmola is a Ukrainian musician, vocalist, lyricist, and the founder and leader of the Cossack-Rock band "Gaidamaki."
THE GAME OF MANIPULATION
January 25, 2014, 10:20 PM
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Here's the strategy: adopt unconstitutional laws that allow them to "eliminate" every Ukrainian who, in solidarity, participates in the protests. Then, based on these "laws," they'll grab hostages – both those captured on Hrushevsky Street or from the AutoMaidan, and just random people visiting Maidan. Afterward, they'll use these hostages as bargaining chips in negotiations with the opposition. They'll say, "The government and president must resign, or we'll release the hostages, or we'll arrest more. Or we'll kill them." These are the typical rules of criminal dealings between gangster gangs, which operate everywhere where society allows the existence of a mafia. And we were walking around wearing rose-colored glasses, dreaming of an ideal legal society... The world tells us to wait for political decisions... The leaders sit down at the negotiating table. They should. But with whom? Either there's no one to negotiate with, or they need to have strong arguments to use! We need to understand: this isn't even like the governments of Pinochet, Stalin, or Hitler. They were fighting for some political views. These people have none. But they already have all the power structures at their disposal. By the way, to the security forces who read blogs: don't you understand who you're working for? The Gestapo and NKVD at least worked for regimes supported by ideologies. What's your ideology? The genocide of the Ukrainian people? In the name of what? Billions in the accounts of those in power? Surely there isn't a single honest person? Surely none of you believe in the possibility of a different, better life in Ukraine? People are coming out to Maidan now not "for Europe," and no one is paying ordinary people at Maidan to do this! It's not "Banderites" or radicals who are setting the tone at Maidan. Those who BELIEVE in the possibility of a decent life in Ukraine have come out. Maidan represents all layers of Ukrainian society. People have come out for a peaceful protest because they don't see a place for themselves in the criminal regime that has already been built. And you have declared everyone "outlaws." Understand, the people of Maidan, for the most part, don't want to go "to Europe" or "to Moscow"; they simply want to live in a civilized country where democratic laws are in effect, and the opportunities for all citizens are more or less equal, where the government, during a crisis, comes out to talk to the people, and if they can't reach an agreement, they voluntarily resign their powers instead of playing games with people.
Весна 2013.
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#5364
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Let's hope there won't be too many Pinochets. They will divide everything fairly among themselves, according to democratic principles.
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#5365
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I'm following the events with great interest. I always knew that this was all a game and a spectacle, like the "bread and circuses" for the ancient Roman plebeians, but today I was simply amazed by how skillfully they manipulate the crowd! Everything is planned down to the smallest detail, it's a bit crude, but not noticeable at first glance, it's all staged – it's clear that the script was written a long time ago (the only question is, where: in the EU? The USA? Russia? Or even in Ukraine itself – I highly doubt it...). It's so well thought out: sometimes they mumble and make faces like Petrosyan (Klichko on the 23rd), and then suddenly the speakers become incredibly eloquent, like Adolf or Fidel in their expressiveness – the manipulation is so blatant if you look at the bigger picture, and not just the current moment... They supposedly reject Yanukovych's terms, but with their arrogant demeanor, they clearly indicate that they have already fully agreed, and the talks are just for show, so that the crowd doesn't get out of control. Rygi either passes laws, then cancels them, arrests people, then releases them – they're playing along (like a four-handed piano duet – Ukraine). What is predicted to be the outcome of the Maidan at the moment? A balance of power in all areas – everything will return to the way it was, except for the casualties, which cannot be brought back. Oh yes, and power will be redistributed a bit, although I suspect that Bandyukovich will remain in power until some future elections – and it's not even certain that he will be "re-elected fairly and democratically." Ah, Arseniy, Arseniy, where is that bullet you so desired to receive in your forehead?!

In general, the country needs a real dictator right now (in a good sense – someone who is tough but fair and reasonable, and toughness doesn't imply orders to beat/kill civilians and the deliberate nurturing of law enforcement agencies) – definitely not this Yenakiyevo mediocrity who is currently trying to hold onto power. Let it be someone like Tyagnibok, but definitely not him – one of the Maidan clowns, and he should definitely be more centrist. Tymoshenko? Hmm, I don't know, but it will be interesting to watch. And it's clear that this option is 100% no worse than Yanukovych, which means there is a chance that it could be even better. There are no new faces who are really capable of taking power into their own hands for the benefit of the country, even if you look through binoculars. As they say, we'll see what happens. For now, I'm not participating, but if I see that there is no other way out (the introduction of a state of emergency) and that there is at least a small chance of a real victory for the people, and not these walking, interchangeable sets who supposedly represent the people – I will join, I will go, I will have to become an "extremist" by the definition of all these political freaks – well, I will, it's time to find the courage within myself, and I wish the same to all my compatriots. Of course, not to those who are told "you are a peasant, meat, and a glutton" – and they are happy about it and eager to share this joy with the world.
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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#5366
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(c)stolen:



Added 6 minutes ago
Viktor Yanukovych offered the chairman of the opposition Ukrainian party "UDAR", Vitali Klitschko, the position of Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine for humanitarian issues. This was reported by UNIAN, citing the head of the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine, Elena Lukash.

"The President is convinced that working together with the opposition will help the country unite and carry out the necessary reforms for the state and society," Lukash said. The Minister also stated that Yanukovych offered the leader of the "Batkivshchyna" party, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the position of Prime Minister of Ukraine.

Not bad, that's quite a turn :)
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#5367
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Wicc
(c)stolen:

Everything is great. But there are a few "buts": there are no murders, robberies, or looting in Kyiv. Well, there are. Murders by law enforcement. And robberies and looting by "titushki" (if you don't know what "titushki" are, Google it). But it was suppressed very well by those very "extremists" who, in theory, should be doing it themselves, as they are criminals! Maybe we are more cultured than Europe? Although, probably we are just more stupid - after all, it's just Bandera's scum, fascists, and idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGaQ5BDNouM

A video on the topic, but it's terrible. Don't watch it, don't ruin your mood!
http://heroes3.tv/twaryna