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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

Online Tournaments
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Offline Grando
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Posts: 1,827
#2001
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Actually, I've thought about it and I agree with Tvarina.

Ideally, the third digit should always be set to 1, but the first two should be chosen carefully.

I insist on the number 2 for battles because I simply don't believe that anyone will thoughtfully choose the first two digits. :D
I haven't seen (or noticed) a single decent attempt yet.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Grando
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#2003
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twaryna
Based on the numbers, Vik's suggestion seems the most reasonable: 8+4+1 on M.

Well, this is a clear example of inadequacy.
Recently, an m200 tournament was held using this timer, and it would be surprising if anyone objected – it’s a blitz timer that requires you to deliberately adjust your playstyle, simplify the game, even if you are not inherently slow.
There are even special recommendations from Vik on how to play simpler:
/post/650167/
And all of this should be seen as evidence of an inadequate timer
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#2004
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twaryna
Based on the numbers, Vik's suggestion seems the most reasonable:

8+4+1 on M
16+6+1 on L
30+8+1 on XL (including Jeb)

It seems to me that the second number is a bit low. In Novosibirsk, they played 16+8+1 on L and it was just right. Maybe this is a better option:
8+6+1 on M
16+8+1 on L
32+10+1 on XL
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Offline Grando
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#2005
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Woohoo!
This is already a good step in the right direction.

Kostya has captured the essence of what Tvaryna wrote in digital form – the focus should be on battles, while exploration should be more important.
And it's not just a personal opinion written randomly, but rather in line with the best ideas from the discussion that took place before.
I think this is the first truly worthwhile attempt since the beginning of the discussion.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#2006
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Oldboy
This is a clear example of inadequacy.
A tournament for M200 was recently held on this timer, and it would be surprising if anyone objected – this is a blitz timer, which requires you to deliberately adjust your playstyle, simplify the game, even if you are not inherently a slow player.
But seriously, does anyone play M except according to the rules of the M-200 tournament?
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Offline Aiwe
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Posts: 1,330
#2007
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Dirty_Player
I think the second number is a bit too small. In Novosibirsk, we played 16+8+1 on Large maps, and it was just right. Maybe this is a better option:
8+6+1 on Medium
16+8+1 on Large
32+10+1 on Extra Large

In my opinion, this isn't quite right.
Firstly, Medium maps are played when there's little time or you just want to play a quick game. If you need to think through every move, play something else.
Secondly, 16+8+1 for Large maps is okay, but it's the same as playing a Small map on an 8-minute timer – it's unhurried and deliberate, and time doesn't fly by like on a 6-minute timer, but is it necessary?
Thirdly, 32+10+1 on Extra Large maps is almost unlimited because at the beginning of the game, you'll accumulate 2 hours of timer, and then it doesn't matter how much time you spend on each turn.

The only thing I would support from this is the 16+8+1 timer for Mini and Diamond maps.
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
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Offline Сатир
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Posts: 1,378
#2008
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I've played many games on HL+U with 30+8+1. That's more than enough. It's time to punish the slowpokes! :smile51:
Oldboy
woohoo!
this is a good step in the right direction
:D
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

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Offline Aiwe
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#2009
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Satyr
I've played many games on HL+U with 30+8+1, and that's more than enough. It's time to punish the slowpokes! :smile51:

:D

I completely agree. I have a feeling that those who are against it just want to argue, and they don't consider it necessary to actually try playing with this timer.
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
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Offline Wicc
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#2010
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Dirty_Player
It seems to me that the second number is a bit too low. In Novosibirsk we played 16+8+1 on L-sized maps, and it was just right. Maybe an option would be:
8+6+1 on M
16+8+1 on L
32+10+1 on XL
Lately, due to needing to sit with my kid from time to time, I've been watching quite a lot of streams. So games with the N+6+1 timer, in my opinion as a viewer, are the most spectacular — the quality of play is acceptable, there are almost no dumb moments, and something is always happening.

With the N+4+1 control, you can feel that players are sacrificing game quality to meet the timer. Although the spectacle becomes more exciting, that has its own upside too. But with N+8+1(2,4), as a viewer I usually get bored; I can't bring myself to watch it for a long time.

So when the question of a timer for TDD came up, there simply were no options other than N+6+1 ...

P.S. Out of all the games I've watched recently, the most spectacular was Stinger-Forrest — blitz Jebus Cross 600+350, I stayed up until 3 AM, even though I planned to go to bed at 1.
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Offline Juristis
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Posts: 1,423
#2011
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By the way, TDD has a great timer. But in general, I'm terribly annoyed by posts like those from Zug, Oldboy, or Sanin. People clearly want to play their heroes games, comfortably lounging on the couch, sipping tea (or beer), watching TV, spitting on the ceiling, and picking their noses. And for all this, they apparently don't have enough time. People, this is an online game! It's like esports. If you want to think for 10 minutes about which cell is the best to attack a neutral creature from, then think. But pay for it with your own time, not just someone else's. And if you don't want to pay, play against the computer! Apparently, it will be inconvenient to use harpies to kill zombies. And you won't be able to break through a horde of golems with a ballista anymore. Ugh, how many tactical tricks are we missing! How the game is becoming so bland...
heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,032
#2012
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Aiwe
In the second version, 16+8+1 for Large maps is normal, but it's the same as playing a skirmish on an 8-minute timer in the classic timer – it's not rushed, it's deliberate, and time doesn't fly by like it does in a 6-minute game, but is it necessary?
It's not entirely correct to compare 8 in the classic timer and 8 in the chess timer; they are different things.
Aiwe
In the third version, 32+10+1 on HotA is almost unlimited because at the beginning of the game, you'll accumulate 2 hours of timer, and then it doesn't matter how much time you spend on your turn.
On HotA, time will be needed later, when it's the late game, and you have to act with many heroes and perform many operations.
Wicc
Recently, due to the need to occasionally watch over my child, I've been watching a lot of streams. So, games with an N+6+1 timer are the most entertaining to me as a viewer – the quality of the game is acceptable, and there are almost no stupid moves; something is always happening.
Well, obviously, from a spectacle point of view, the smaller the timer, the more fun it is to watch, but that doesn't mean we should switch Heroes to a blitz format (although I wouldn't be against it; I play on any timer). There should be some compromise between an outright blitz and a thoughtful, comfortable game.
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Offline Aiwe
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#2014
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Dirty_Player
You'll need more time on HL maps later on, when it's the late game and you have to act with many heroes and perform many operations.

In the late game, you'll have 2 hours + 10 minutes per turn, and battles will likely be no more than 10 seconds. Of course, you can have a quality game, and I don't even argue that this time can be spent wisely, but it's still unlimited.

P.S. I'll remind you that in the actual rules, it's 8 minutes, although many play with 10, but still...
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
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Offline Wicc
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#2015
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Dirty_Player
Well, it's obvious that from a spectacle point of view, the shorter the timer, the more fun it is to watch, but that doesn't mean that the game should be switched to a blitz format (although I wouldn't mind, I play with any timer). There should be some compromise between an outright blitz and a thoughtful, comfortable game.
That's the compromise being proposed. And it's definitely not a blitz.

Based on what I've seen in the streams, this option allows most players to show a fairly good game. Maybe not perfect.

If someone doesn't have enough time, they need to either improve their game or sign up for tournaments with a longer time control.
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Offline Grando
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#2016
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okay, some criticism of XL has emerged, let's adjust it slightly and get:

8+6+1 M
16+8+1 L
30+9+1 XL and Jebus (or 40/45+8+1)

and using the duel between Stinger and Forrest as an example of an exciting game in this discussion is also not very appropriate
they are absolutely top-tier players, and with a probability of just under 100%, the duel will be exciting on any playable timer

M 8+4+1, this may not be a pure blitz (compared to a 5-minute chess blitz), but it's definitely not a normal game for anyone, and it's not intended to be a normal game
Wick, there's already a link to your own recommendations for simplifying the game above in the thread.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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