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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

Online Tournaments
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In reply to Pit for LM
Offline dom2
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#1677
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With 20+ games from God, with changes made and supported by sound **quantitative** arguments, then it makes sense to discuss the matter; otherwise, it's just opinions versus opinions. The person making the claim should provide proof (not just interpretation!), while others have the right to say "no" without providing any arguments.

Although, what's the point of arguments here? It's clearly about emotions (someone is very upset), Jupiter has outdone Pluto, and all is well:D
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Как сделать так, чтобы в подписи картинка рейтинга была кликабельной?
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Offline Lider1
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#1678
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GoD
Why does it even matter to you what reason I had for starting this topic? Lost to Mareti, got upset that Conflux is weaker... or maybe I smoked myself silly or had a bad trip to the toilet, what concern is it of yours, good sir?

Oh, you're on fiiiiire )))

No, I have nothing to do with you, at all! But you're not writing to someone in a PM, you're posting on the forum in the online games rules thread. You're suggesting new changes.
And, for example, I don't like some of your suggestions. That's all.

GoD
instead of concrete pros/cons, you're writing nonsense as usual.

apart from the suggestion about phoenixes, which wasn't even being discussed, and your snide jabs, the semantic load in the text is approaching zero.

Looks like you didn't read the top part of my post:
Regarding restrictions. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with unbanning fairies and mage heroes. Even though Luna is a really cool lady:
a) you still need to know how to play her, it's not that hard to lose stupidly
b) on Jebus Cross, the work of chains matters (pretty much like on any template), not just one cool hero.
c) Mages are already in a bad spot. So I don't see any significant imbalance in the mage-warrior matchup.
Psychic elementals - opposed. Complete magic immunity can really ruin your nerves in FB. And they upgrade for much different money than black dragons.

But that apparently doesn't matter anymore )) burn if you must ))
GoD
you're sticking to your usual routine.

And yes, go ahead and tell me about my usual routine))
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Volodymyr
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#1679
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I didn't quite understand what you meant by "who won against whom." The last game simply confirmed the idea that Flux has been nerfed too much, and someone expressed their opinion. The fact that Flux isn't an overpowered Castle on Jebus is a fact. Take a look at the Jebus Cross-3 tournament – how many games feature Flux compared to other Castles? Let's look at the list:

13.04.2013 Juristis (blue, Stronghold, Crag Hack) def Dima Surmay (red, Conflux, random, Labeta) Jebus, 124
17.04.2013 bubuch (blue, Rampart, Kir, Kir) def Javdet (red, Conflux, Moner, Moner) jebus 125
17.04.2013 theShevanesian (blue, Stronghold, Crag Hack) def rebellious (red, Conflux, Labeta, Tazar) Jebus 143
18.04.2013 Yostairs (Red, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) def Lucky George (Blue, Conflux, Inteus, Pasis) JC, 125
20.04.2013 ~no1_knows_me~ (red, Flux, Ciel, Kalt) def cuc9ctblu (blue, Dungeon, Shakti, Aislin) JC, 136
11.05.2013 Lucky George (red, Conflux, Tunar, Crag Hack) loose twaryna (blue, Rampart, Kir, Gundula) jebus 127
10.05.2013 theShevanesian (blue, Conflux, Labeta, Sorcha) def Ayauhteotl (red, Tower, Nella)
19.05.2013 GoD (Blue, Castle, Valeska, Brogh) def Yostairs (Red, Flux, Pasis, Das) Jebus Cross 124
27.05.2013 Dirty_Player (blue, Conflux, random, Grindan, Theodorus) def Aiwe (red, Rampart, Kyrre, Kyrre) Jebus 127
11.06.2013 =Stinger= (blue, Fortress, Tazar) def Maretti (red, Conflux, random, Clavius) Jebus Cross 145
16.06.2013 theShevanesian (red, Conflux, Pasis, Moner) def Bloody)Driver (blue, Necropolis, Galtran) Jebus Cross 135
01.05.2013 Ominous1 (blue, Conflux, Fure, Fure) def rebellious (red, Inferno, Pir, Pir) Jebus 216
05.05.2013 Lem (red, Flux, Luna, Luna) def Nestor86 (blue, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) Jebus Cross 125
17.05.2013 twaryna (blue, Swamp, Tazar, Tazar) def Kalababa (red, Conflux, Pasis, Luna) Jebus 131
23.05.2013 ~no1_knows_me~ (red, Rampart, Kir, Kir) def Lem (blue, Conflux, Jelar, Gurni), JC, 126
01.06.2013 Javdet (red Rampart, Kir, Kir) def CuC9CTblu (blue Flux, Brissa, Mephala) Jebus 141
07.06.2013 Roger DAltavilla (Flux, random, Brissa, Terek) loose twaryna (Rampart, Kir) JC 124
12.06.2013 ~no1_knows_me~ (blue, Flux, Fure, Fure) def Ayauhteotl (red, Inferno, Pir, ?) JC
17.07.2013 Maretti (red, Rampart, Kyrre) def Mizrael (blue, Flux, random, Lacus) jebus 127

7-12 is not in favor of Flux. Of these, 11 (in 1 game, the colors are not specified) games out of 19, Conflux plays as red, which indicates that the player who chooses the Castle first calmly left it for their opponent. At the same time, in the remaining 7 games, playing as blue, there are 3 games against Tower and Inferno, which, in general, clearly shows that Flux is valued higher than only these two Castles. This is the statistics, gentlemen, and you can't really argue with it
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In reply to Volodymyr
Offline dom2
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#1680
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Volodymyr
...
Well now, that’s something — now we can answer more seriously... Let’s set aside the arguments that over such a distance (19 games) the result can be heavily influenced by many factors — general skill difference, the specific template (Jebus Cross), skill/lack of skill in playing Conflux, success of playing Conflux against a specific Castle, randomness of drafts in general (and the characteristic draft variance inherent to Conflux), the tournament nature of games (meaning more practiced towns are chosen) and so on.

Most importantly, the numbers presented already allow for the possibility of a problem, yes... They only speak of the possibility of setting the task. But, in any case — a test block of games, a thematic tournament should happen (perhaps combined with other "overdue", in someone’s opinion, changes). Something like, a Conflux tournament "Blue fairies and red psychos: we`ll be back". I didn’t include the yellow birds in the title; has no one gotten burned because of the birds yet? Although, maybe I should enable it in advance ;)
ICQ601845540

Как сделать так, чтобы в подписи картинка рейтинга была кликабельной?
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In reply to Pit for LM
Offline Grando
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#1681
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Volodymyr, you're writing some unusual things.
I'm sure that Dima_Surmay and Lider1 didn't just fart around in this thread into eternity with their point of view, but can also write something comparable strictly to the point.

But most of all, I place my hopes on Kostya, of course, who is Dirty_Player.

p.s. I'll still repeat my thought — it's not certain that all three restrictions on this town should be lifted at once, even on Jebus Cross. Perhaps it's worth limiting it to one or two.
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In reply to Pit for LM
Offline shameonyou
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#1682
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What’s wrong with the idea of turning the weak units from the Swamp into a viable stack? Magic resistance, that’s good. But the Swamp’s poison, which has a 50% chance to trigger, is impossible to remove after it takes effect, and it reduces the HP of enemy units to 35 and 125, respectively. So, let’s also ban upgrading the Swamp units, because that’s too strong for a 3,000-cost upgrade…
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Offline Juristis
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#1683
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Explain one thing, please. Why complicate the rules unnecessarily by trying to turn an average (average! Not weak!) Castle into a top-tier one on one specific template. Is it really not clear that this will only complicate everything? I would also ban Galthran on Jebus Cross, since he's banned on all templates, so let him be banned there too. Otherwise, the differences in rules for different templates are annoying, and many players get confused because of this. Especially beginners.
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In reply to Juristis
Offline shameonyou
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#1684
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Juristis
please explain one thing. Why overcomplicate the rules unnecessarily by trying to turn an average (average! Not weak!) town into a top-tier one on a specific single template. Is it really not clear that this will only make everything more complicated? By the way, I would also ban Galthran on Jebus Cross, since he's banned on all templates, then let him be banned on Jebus Cross as well. Otherwise, the differences in rules for different templates are annoying, and many players get confused because of this. Especially beginners.

That's the point, they made an exception for Necropolis, but can't do it for Conflux? :D
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In reply to Juristis
Offline Grando
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#1685
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Juristis
trying to make an average (average! Not weak!) out of it

Jurist, try to explain how, from what Volodymyr wrote, you failed to understand that in tournament play, players have shown that they consider Conflux one of the three weakest towns? Not average. But clearly one of the weakest. And they confirmed it with results as well.
And yet, it has the most restrictions imposed on it.
I see only one explanation - you didn't even read it, because tl;dr.

And, by the way, regarding its two neighbors. It's generally unclear how to buff Tower in SoD. If you have ideas, please suggest them.
As for Inferno, there are different points of view. But in any case, even if we agree that it is actually that weak - it's also unclear how to buff it.
But with Conflux, everything is simple - they cut it down with restrictions and made it an outsider artificially.
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Offline Lucky George
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#1686
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I still have a question: are windmills a resource or an object according to the rules? I'm asking this to understand if they can be taken/visited while the guard is moved. Personally, I believe they are an object, and it's not allowed to use them until the guard is defeated! :smile29:
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Offline Javdet
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#1687
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And unbanning Monere on Jebus Cross wouldn't be a bad idea. Gosh was unbanned, and nothing happened, no particular confusion in the rules. As for unit upgrades — debatable. In BT there are some levers limiting imbalanced play — fakes don't upgrade without resources, fewer phoenixes arrive, and their speed seems to have been nerfed. But psychos (especially with +1 growth from specialty and +1 speed on level-up) are an imbalanced thing.

Added after 2 minutes
Oldboy

And, by the way, regarding his two neighbors. It's unclear how to buff Tower in SoD at all. If you have ideas, feel free to suggest them.
There's only one option, but it's very radical and unlikely to be acceptable to the majority — giving Tower a 1-day head start.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Juristis
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#1688
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Lucky George
I'll still ask the question; are mills a resource or an object according to the rules? I'm asking to understand whether they can be taken/visited from under shifted guards. I myself am of the opinion that it's an object and you can't use them before breaking through the guard! :smile29:
An object, of course.

Added after 3 minutes
Oldboy
Lawyer, try to explain how, from what Volodymyr wrote, you failed to understand that in tournament play, players showed they consider Flax one of the three weakest towns? Not average. But clearly one of the weakest. And they confirmed it with results.
Meanwhile, it has the most restrictions placed on it.
I see only one explanation - you didn't even read it, because it's too many letters.

And, by the way, regarding its two neighbors. Tower in SoD is generally unclear how to buff. If you have ideas, feel free to suggest them.
As for Inferno, there are different points of view. But in any case, even if we agree that it is actually that weak - it's also unclear how to buff it.
But with Flax, everything is simple - they nerfed it with restrictions and made it an outsider artificially.
Well, I don't consider Flax one of the three weakest towns on Jebus. And I'm ready to play it against everyone, except maybe Castle. Although I have won against Castle on a conflux Jebus. It's a perfectly normal town; if someone has hands growing from the wrong place, that's their problem. There's no need to complicate the rules unnecessarily. And in general, if you change the rules, it should only be to remove something from them, like specialists for 4th level and Mullich. And if you unban something for Flax, it should be on all templates, not just one Jebus.
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Offline Lider1
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#1689
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Oldboy

I'm sure that Dima_Surmay and Lider1 did not just fart around in this thread for no reason.

Well, compared to you, where would I be.
What were you saying about replays? Did you come up with some cool idea?

Dima Surmay, by the way, made a valid point:
He is not the weakest, so start strengthening the weak ones or weaken the strong ones. Strengthening the mid-tier towns increases the gap with the weaker ones.

Regarding the statistics. Why, say, does Maretti have no trouble winning with Conflux? (The statistics there are completely different.)

Maybe player strength + randomness in the draft should also be taken into account?
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Juristis
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#1690
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And by the way, I don't quite understand why castles need to be balanced at all. There are strong and weak cities, and that's perfectly normal; Heroes isn't a balanced game. Why artificially try to buff the Tower? There are plenty of other templates for it; it dominates in Might & Magic games anyway. Why are you so fixated on this stupid Jebus? Are there no other templates?
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Offline Lider1
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#1691
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Juristis
Some cities are strong, and some are weak.
And there is a church.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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