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Posts from Poll with comments: skill tree.

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Cheat or no cheat?
69 voters
Single choice Public votes
This poll is closed.
Cheat!
46.4% 32 votes
Well, I don't think so
30.4% 21 votes
I'm having trouble answering
23.2% 16 votes
In reply to Dirty_Player
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13 years ago
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Dirty_Player
P.S.: Using the program is, of course, a cheat, albeit not a particularly malicious one. But the program DOES NOT WORK online. The author has fixed this.
Smart people tell me that here, only in the default case will everything match, i.e., if the probabilities of skill drops, etc., have not been changed. Thus, if secondary skills are only obtained when leveling up, all 255 options will be identical in any other game with the same hero and the same skill tree number. From this, we can empirically, by trial and error, discover the skill tree number, namely, the pattern of obtaining a certain number of skills (what is the probability that the tree is not unique if it already has as many as 6 skills, for example? In my opinion, it is zero or close to it), and therefore we can predict the development of events with some degree of probability. I have all 255 options for Tazar, and the reason I wrote this thread here is that without direct use of the program (i.e., from a save file with the game running), I found the skill tree I needed using probabilities and knew exactly what skills to develop.

So, the question is, is THIS a cheat? And not 90% of the above mentioned by colleagues?
In reply to Sadness
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13 years ago
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Vaflya

I explored Tazar, and I managed to play as him, and I got what I wanted. I know in advance what I need to take and what I don't, and the probability that the tree is different is minimal.
I created a map; Tazar has expert armor and advanced tactics. At the next level, he received navigation.
The second time, he received artillery. I also set the hero's skills in the editor; at level 4, they should give magical skills... I need to check this too, but I think it's a Sisyphean task because there are witch huts that break the skill tree, etc.

Seven, I wrote in my profile (even before you were born :)), that I'm not playing to get achievements :)
And if I were using these programs, I would probably have a second dozen badges under my avatar already.
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13 years ago
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Besides everything else, there's the "skill tree breaking" issue. After all, you can acquire a skill not only by leveling up...
If I'm wrong, please correct me.
In reply to Captain
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13 years ago
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Captain
"It is forbidden to view save files" - but what does this program do?
Correct, it views them. Therefore, it is a cheat.

The program works in offline mode, save files cannot be viewed, which means the topic is irrelevant and the program is not a cheat, because nothing prevents you from using it to view save files of completed matches.
In reply to Qwerty
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13 years ago
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Vaflya
So, the question is whether THIS is a cheat? And not 90% of what my colleagues listed.
This is NOT a cheat. How can you call something a cheat when you basically wrote it down on paper and memorized it.
Qwerty
Besides everything else, there is also "breaking the skill tree." After all, you can acquire a skill not only by leveling up...
If I'm wrong, correct me.
That's correct. But if the skills offered in the chosen tree are excellent, then there's no point in breaking the tree.

P.S.: After Scorpa's answer, the topic could have been closed immediately :D
In reply to Dirty_Player
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13 years ago
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Dirty_Player
This is a Sisyphean task because the practical benefit in a real game is minimal (no more than using a damage calculator). It's better to spend the time it would take to analyze all the possibilities on improving your gameplay skills. You'll get more out of it.
:smile01:
Well, honestly, let's just close this topic: enough has been said, and everyone understands!
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13 years ago
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So people really want to close the topic, which means we need to continue it.
13 years ago
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The program systematizes and processes information simply faster than you do. Of course, you could create a database of skill trees and adapt its use with some other program. Thus, by adding an intermediate link, we "sort of" demonstrate the legitimacy of our actions; the time for requesting and processing information will increase, but the result will be the same. And something similar is what we all see when using the HD mod. The only difference is that the mod is publicly available. And the opinion that it is a cheat doesn't arise only because everyone who can/wants to uses it.
But at the same time, another murky thought arises. When one player's analytical tool – the brain – has a much larger cache and works significantly faster than another's, then, in the opinion of the weaker player, he is a cheater. Therefore, I would have to agree with the use of the program by AlexSpl, since it has been around for a long time and there has been enough talk about it (although it was forgotten for a while). Displaying the skill tree is nothing more than auxiliary information (like the same tables on moves, demons, etc. – some have them in their mind or in an explicit form, while others don't), since the value is constant and does not depend on anything. This program is simply more controversial. It can/should be fought against only by asking Baratortcha (he somehow declared the idea of introducing a countermeasure to another program into the mod, which also accesses memory) to implement a ban on any external program accessing the memory.
As for what Vaflya wants, let him do it – he will have plenty of time now :smile14:. For example, he could make it look nice, like in the About Heroes program.
In reply to rebellious
13 years ago
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rebellious
The program systematizes and processes information simply faster than you do. Of course, you can create a database of skill trees and adapt its use with some other program. Thus, by adding an intermediate link, we "sort of" demonstrate the legitimacy of our actions; the time for requesting and processing information will increase, but the result will be the same. And something similar is what we all see when using the HD mod. The only difference is that the mod is publicly available. And the opinion that it is a cheat does not arise only because everyone who can/wants uses it.
But at the same time, another murky thought arises. When one player's analytical apparatus – the brain – has a much larger cache and works significantly faster than another, then, in the opinion of the weaker player, he is a cheater. Therefore, I would have to agree with the use of the program by AlexSpl, since it has been around for a long time and there has been enough talk about it (although it was forgotten for a while). Displaying the skill tree is nothing more than auxiliary information (like the same tables on moves, demons, etc. – some have them in their mind or in an explicit form, while others do not), since the value is constant and does not depend on anything. This program is simply more controversial. It can/should be fought against only by asking Baratortcha (he somehow declared the idea of introducing a countermeasure to another program into the mod, which also accesses memory) to implement a ban on any third-party program accessing the memory.
And as for what Vaflya wants, let him do it – he will have a lot of time now :smile14:. For example, he could make it look nice, like in the About Heroes program.

Why are you confusing people? First, you write that the program simply frees you from mental processes. And on the other hand, you write that it accesses the game's memory, i.e., it accesses information within the game itself.

You should immediately state that the program is a cheat, and it doesn't matter what good functions it has.
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13 years ago
Реба! :smile19:
13 years ago
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Hmm, how does the random map generator (RMG) work? It uses a seed during generation (as stated in the scenario description). What if we create our own map generator or a map database based on seeds? That is, you enter, see the seed, and view the map in a program. After all, the map creation algorithm is already known.
Next, we know where the monsters are, we know the entrances and exits, it's time to write a battle simulator! In the simulator, we sketch out a plan for further actions (the simulator must have undo/redo functions), we repeat the same actions in the game, and voila, there will be no more stupid defeats.
And what is the result? Our own casual heroes with Blackjack and other perks. It's a disgrace!
13 years ago
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I was watching streams and had a question about the rules. I read the rules:
2. The use of additional programs that speed up the gameplay is allowed, in particular: - A program for quick exchange of troops and artifacts between two heroes in Heroes III - HMM3_Lighter, - Animation speed-up in battles - Cranim, - A mod to improve the functional part of the interface - HoMM3 HD. The player using these programs and files is responsible for all bugs that arise. The use of any other additional programs and files that affect the Gameplay is prohibited without prior agreement with the opponent.
I became curious whether it is possible to use some offline developments or not. For example, there is software that shows the hero's skill tree. It doesn't formally affect the Gameplay. So, it seems like it's not prohibited. Since choosing skills for the main hero is one of the important elements of the game that affects the quality, I would like to know more clearly whether it is allowed or not. For example, we have a hero, and ideally, it is beneficial for us to immediately upgrade all skills to expert level to receive bonuses from them directly at the moment. But if a useful skill is offered that will be needed in the future, few people will refuse it. But with this program, if we know for sure that we will be offered this skill in a couple of levels anyway, we can calmly not take it at the moment. In addition, we choose the main hero from the current 5-8 heroes, selecting the one who will gain expert-level Earth Offense and Logistics skills as quickly as possible. That's what we're aiming for.
In reply to Antoshka
13 years ago
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you yourself answered that it greatly affects the gameplay; it's a cheat program.
In reply to Antoshka
13 years ago
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To be 100% sure about a hero’s skill tree, you need to know its number (1-255), which is randomly chosen at the start of the map and cannot be determined directly (only by guessing based on the skills acquired). If you are referring to the LMOracle program, it takes data (the skill tree number, without going into details) that is hidden from the player and retrieves it directly from the game, so its use is technically similar to opening a save file. But it seems to have protection against this and does not allow launching the game online.
In reply to Antoshka
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13 years ago
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Hold on, take it easy. No need to advertise any programs. There are already enough smart alecks, plus special geniuses like Disquared are putting the reputation of ND+ in doubt. Maybe some will say, "You're against it because you only want to use it yourself?" Well, the answer is: **no, I don't use it at all.** Regarding the topic: for online play, it's 100% cheating.

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