Tactics for playing against a Necromancer. — Necropolis

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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The "Former Friends" map differs significantly in its structure, tactics, and specifics from the "Lands of Outcasts" map: - It has many more chests. - There are decent artifacts, including relics. - There is a possibility to break through to the center on the 1st week, capturing gold mines and at least two dwellings of 7th-level creatures. In my opinion, "Former Friends" is more complex than "Lands of Outcasts." Well, the fantasies about logistics combined with education + attraction, racial abilities, summoning up to Fire Warriors, and a developed tent are not very well-founded. And it should be noted that this is at least level 18-19 of the hero... :) The most likely scenario for the mentioned progression is on maps that are generated by a map generator (but not the one built into the game Heroes of Might and Magic V: "Tribes of the East"). And then we got sidetracked from discussing this topic. By the way, on "Lands of Outcasts," an Orc is more likely to kill a Necromancer by day 8-9 (this is about tactics against Necromancers). As for "Lands of Outcasts," there is no equal to the Academics on this map. And here, the Necromancer has nothing to offer against the Academic.

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Mish-gan

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

The "Former Friends" map differs significantly in its structure, tactics, and specifics from the "Lands of Outcasts" map:
- it has many more chests and decent artifacts of the relic type;
- it offers the possibility to break through to the center on the 1st week, capturing gold mines and at least two dwellings of 7th-level creatures.

In my opinion, "Former Friends" is more complex than "Lands of Outcasts."

As for the fantasies about logistics combined with education + attraction, racial abilities, summoning up to fire warriors, and an upgraded tent, these are not very well-founded. And it should be noted that this requires at least level 18-19 for the hero...:)

The most likely scenario is the development you mentioned on maps that are generated by a map generator (but not the one built into the game Heroes of Might and Magic V: "Tribes of the East").

I agree that all maps are different, and on each one, you need to devise your own strategy; that's logical. Regarding the difficulty, I wouldn't say so (much depends on the neutrals), but it's clear that you need to act differently.
I repeat, with normal development, all the planned actions will succeed with a probability of 70-80% because almost all the skills I mentioned are basic. I will need level 15-16, of course, not all skills at the expert level; they are not needed at that level. Regarding generated maps, it's difficult for me to judge because I don't play on them.

In reply to Mish-gan

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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In that case, I wouldn't quite understand why take a skill if you're not going to maximize its benefits for the desired character build.

Саня Изи

16 years ago

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I think I'll agree that fire elementals are a good option for a rush strategy. But for this, you need: a) To have the spell in the guild or a belt. b) To have a decent amount of mana and magic skill. c) To try to catch them – and that can be not easy. Then, the heroes who will most likely be used for rushing will be Naadir or Vlad. Still, Kaspar seems a bit more convenient to me, and besides, you can try to take a Castle with him, but with only fire elementals... hmm, I don't know, I don't know. Added 1 minute ago

valery

They will simply have nowhere else to run.

:D They simply won't reach the enemy's positions and will turn back. Added 1 minute ago

valery

We are scaring them again. The enemy hero's turn is much more valuable than the Barbarian hero's turn.

:D All that will be left to do is scare the subordinate stack; there's no time for berserkers here. Subordination will just hang there, and the Necromancer will cast new berserkers. Maybe I'm not understanding something?

In reply to Саня Изи

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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a) No need for glitches in the guild: summoning elementals is automatically added to the hero's spellbook upon receiving the "Fire Warriors" perk. b) Mana won't be a problem: 30-40 will be enough (don't forget about "Spiritual Bond" on your own or enemy units). The "Spell Power" stat increases primarily for Necromancers, so there won't be any problems with that. c) Yes, I agree that a hero with an existing summoning skill is good, but this is just a specific case... It seems you don't understand much (read the manual:rolleyes:, I mean the manual): when a new blessing is applied, the previous one no longer works. Constantly applying "Dominate" and a blessing won't be very useful: firstly, it requires a lot of mana (it's understandable that Necromancers have a lot of mana, but it's not infinite), it's much more effective to use mass spells at the beginning of the battle, and then "Dominate" and a blessing may be needed. In any case, the main tactic for Necromancers in the final battles is to prolong the battle.

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Mish-gan

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

Then I don't quite understand why take a skill if you're not going to get the maximum benefit from it for the desired progression.

Why? What kind of question is that? The maximum benefit will be achieved at level twenty (and I'm not going to play that long), and my goal is to level up a combat-ready hero as quickly as possible, knowing approximately what my abilities will be in terms of development by the end of the second week of the game (this is the minimum time and level of progression for me to prepare for an attack; the time may vary depending on the map), and then by the end of the 3rd-4th week, finish off the enemy.
I have progression priorities, for example, Magic Attraction in Education, Plague Tent in Machines, Fire Wars in Summoning, etc. In practice, to prepare a strong rushing hero, I need level 15-16!

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Саня Изи

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

a) No spells are needed in the guild: summoning elementals is automatically added to the hero's spellbook when the "Fire Warriors" perk is acquired.

Sorry, I made a mistake:eek:

Added 2 minutes ago

KillAndAction

b) You won't need a lot of mana: 30-40 will be enough (don't forget about spiritual connection on your or enemy units). The "Magic" stat increases primarily for Necromancers, so there won't be any problems with that.

Well, I don't know, you can't have too much spiritual connection. Especially if we're not talking about Orcs, but about Demons. I think 50-60 will be enough for Orcs (if we plan to use a general plague or something else).

Added 2 minutes ago

Mish-gan

I have priority upgrade paths, for example - Magic Attraction in Education, Plague Tent in Machines, Fire Warriors in Summoning, etc. In practice, to prepare a strong rushing hero, I need level 15-16!

I suppose I agree. Orcs aren't that strong in rushing to be able to defeat Necromancers easily. With skillful play, even Kaspar is enough to defeat an Orc without losses (at least, it was tested today)

In reply to Саня Изи

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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Hmm... Through my notes and comments, and Mish-gan's corresponding responses, we've arrived at the point where we're no longer talking about a rush, since we've moved to the end of the first month of the game:p... But never mind, that's not the point.

I think it's time to summarize. We need to acknowledge that:
- Necropolis is still the best rushing faction in the game;
- the "rush" tactic is specific in its nature;
- it requires a certain level of skill from the player;
- it is also influenced by luck in the game;
- and it's also necessary to remember which race we are playing against and on what map.

As for tactics against Necropolis, we need to analyze them separately and specifically, depending on the particular game situation, related to the size of the map and its structure...

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Саня Изи

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

We're no longer talking about rushing, since we've moved to the end of the first month of the game:p

So, are battles considered rushing only if they happen before the end of the first month?

Added 1 minute ago

KillAndAction

Necropolis is still the best rushing faction in the game;

I completely disagree. A Dark Elf, leveled up to 15-16, seems to me, will leave no stone unturned for Kaspar and other Necromancers by the end of the first month.

In reply to Саня Изи

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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Yes, usually no later than the end of the 3rd week. Hmm... Okay, let's do this step by step. Suggest your version of a Warlock hero with a level 15-16 build, so that he would be a rusher...

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Mish-gan

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

Hmm... Still, through my notes and comments, and Mish-gan's corresponding responses, we've reached a point where we're no longer talking about a rush, since we've moved to the end of the 1st month of the game:p... Well, never mind, that's not the point.

I think it's time to summarize. We need to acknowledge that:
- the Necromancer is still the best rusher in the game;
- the "rush" tactic is specific in its nature;
- it requires a certain level of skill from the player;
- luck in the game also affects it (the tactic);
- it is also necessary to remember against which race we are playing and on which map.

As for tactics against the Necromancer, we need to analyze them separately and specifically for each Faction, depending on the specific game situation, related to the size of the map and its structure...

I agree with the above, it's well observed.
P.S. A rush (in my understanding) is a game aimed at the fastest possible (in game time) destruction of the opponent, the time continuum can vary from 1 to 4 weeks.

KillAndAction

16 years ago

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I repeat: rushing is a specific tactic and is not always used; rushing heavily depends on the hero's required skills, the size, and the type of the map. On almost all small, standard maps, the Academy faction is stronger than Necropolis. On maps generated using Large-sized templates, for example, on the IRMG generator, the Necropolis rush is unstoppable...

In reply to KillAndAction

Саня Изи

16 years ago

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KillAndAction

Hmm... Then let's do it step by step. Suggest your version of a Warlock hero with a level 15-16 build, so that he would be a rusher...

Well, let's say we take Sinister. At level 16, he has masterful, irresistible magic, Initial Education - Magic Attraction, permanent luck - Lucky Wizard, Masterful Chaos - Master of Cold, Lightning, or Fire (depending on what's available in the guild). You can first clear out the troops with Trickster, and then gather all the main forces and finish off the Necromancer. (I confess, I actually prefer Necromancers):(

In reply to KillAndAction

Grigh

13 years ago

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I would like to get some help with playing against a Necromancer on the map "Former Friends". Difficulty level: Hero. The opponent is Kaspar. He moves to the center at the beginning of the second week, clearing out the neutral creatures without any losses. So far, I've only managed to win with the Dark Elves – because I can easily go into the dungeon and clear out the neutral creatures at the same speed. With Dwarves, Orcs, Knights, or Elves, I am practically helpless against him, especially if I have unfavorable stacks of neutral creatures (Elven Archers at the entrance to the dungeon and near the gold mine). Either he has hordes of Fire Elementals and a Phoenix, or he uses control spells or the "Unholy Word" spell, which kills my "army" in the second or third week with just a few casts.

Soljie

13 years ago

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If you're playing against the Necromancer Kaspar, one option is to use the Academy's Hafiz, with his ability to control machines, and try to break through to the center on week 1 or 2. It's best to level up his Chaos or Summoning skills.

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