Pandora! — Tactics — HeroesWorld

KycoK_3a6opa

1/9/2013 4:18 AM UTC

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Please explain about Pandora...
If Pandora provides troops, how can you determine from which castle the troops will come?
What influences the castle from which the troops will be provided? Is it the type of terrain or the town located in the zone where the Pandora is?
I've noticed that when playing, for example, as Tower, on my own territory, I always get units only from the Tower, and when playing as Fortress, again on my territory, in Pandoras, I get units only from the Fortress!
So, what is important, the type of terrain or the castle itself that is located in the zone where the Pandora is?

Added after 15 hours and 28 minutes
Well, does anyone not know?

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

Marmot

1/9/2013 10:33 AM UTC

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KycoK_3a6opa, it is quite possible that this is the case: even though the game was released 13 years ago, sometimes attentive players manage to discover something in it that was previously unknown. If you have the time and desire, you can experiment yourself and then tell us about the results.

Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)

In reply to Marmot

KycoK_3a6opa

1/10/2013 4:21 AM UTC

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Marmot

KycoK_3a6opa, it's quite possible that this is the case: even though the game was released 13 years ago, some attentive players sometimes manage to discover something in it that was previously unknown. If you have the time and desire, you can experiment yourself and then tell us about the results.

Okay) I'll try...

Added after 13 hours 39 minutes
I checked today, and it really turned out that the units that appear in the Pandora's Box directly depend on which Castle the area where the box is located belongs to!
Even if, for example, a Stronghold is located somewhere, but the soil type is Infernal, then the Pandora's Box will give units specifically from the Stronghold!

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

dnaop-wr

1/10/2013 9:04 AM UTC

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Well done! You've noticed something interesting and useful. I haven't really delved into Pandora's Boxes much, so I didn't pay much attention to it.
As I understand it, if you take a Pandora's Box near an enemy castle, the units inside will be similar to the enemy's. That is, they won't be tied to the hero's/player's race who took the Pandora's Box. They don't seem to be tied to the terrain type because one terrain type can be related to several races at once.

Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html

Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html

Lider1

1/10/2013 9:13 AM UTC

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KycoK_3a6opa, here you can read some of the author's fantasies about pandoras: /topic/6559/

post #5

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to dnaop-wr

KycoK_3a6opa

1/10/2013 12:45 PM UTC

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dnaop-wr

As I understand it, if you capture a Pandora's Box near an enemy Castle, the units inside will be of the enemy's faction. That is, they won't be tied to the hero's or player's race who captured the Pandora's Box. They don't seem to be tied to the terrain type because one terrain type can be suitable for multiple races.

Yes, if you capture a Pandora's Box near an enemy Castle, the units (if any are inside) will belong to that Castle!
That is, even if you're playing on Jebus, where you get 2 additional villages besides the main city, the Pandora's Box will still contain troops from the main Castle. For example, you start as the Tower faction, approach a village (let's say a Fortress) that's on your location, and see a Pandora's Box nearby. In this case, the box will give you units from the Tower, not from the Fortress!
There was a case that confused me: when I entered the Treasure Room, I saw two cities with a Fortress built in each (these were a Castle and an Inferno). The terrain type was sand. So, when I captured a Pandora's Box right next to (3-5 tiles away) the human Castle, I got 15 Efreet. I couldn't understand how that was possible, but then I noticed that around the same human Castle, there were dwellings of Inferno monsters (kennels, fire pits, and demon gates), but not a single archer tower or stable. That's when I realized that the human Castle was a secondary city with a Fortress built in it, and the entire Treasure Room belonged to the Inferno. That's why the Pandora's Box near the human Castle gave me Efreet!

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

In reply to KycoK_3a6opa

Dirty_Player

1/10/2013 3:49 PM UTC

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a zone always belongs to a specific faction: structures and creatures from that faction appear within it. Usually, this faction matches the central city, but not always.

In reply to Dirty_Player

KycoK_3a6opa

1/10/2013 4:26 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

A zone always belongs to a specific faction: structures and creatures from that faction appear. Usually, this faction matches the central Castle, but not always.

To be honest, I didn't understand what you meant. I just noticed that when playing as the Castle, the Pandora's Box always gives troops from the Castle, even though the terrain belongs to both the Rampart and the Conflux. But I've never received troops from those factions! So, I concluded that the units that appear in the Pandora's Box are related to the Castle that is the main one in that location!
In other words, if you go into the map editor and place a Pandora's Box, but don't specify in its properties what it should give when opened, it will simply be "empty." When the map is generated, the computer seems to try to get the maximum benefit from the Pandora's Box, so it gives either experience, money, or magic. But when it comes to troops, it simply gives the troops that belong to the zone where the Pandora's Box is located! Just like gold, experience, and magic can be given to any hero and when playing as any Castle, but what's the point of giving Zombies or, say, Gnolls to a player who is playing as the Tower and is walking on snow? So, I think that the game developers simply logically provided this pattern: if experience, gold, or magic is given, it doesn't matter who receives it, but if troops are given, the map generator generates them so that the troops match the Castle that is the main one in that location, for the greater benefit of the player who spawns in that zone. Well, that's how I see it, I hope my line of thought is clear! I might be wrong, but no matter how much I test it, it always works that way :smile20:

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

In reply to KycoK_3a6opa

Dirty_Player

1/10/2013 4:39 PM UTC

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KycoK_3a6opa

Well, maybe! I just noticed that when playing as Fortress, the Pandora's Box always gives troops from the Fortress, even though the grass also applies to Rampart and Conflux, but it never gives troops from those castles! )

You didn't understand. First, a zone of a certain size is drawn, then the type of race is applied to this zone (for example, Inferno), then the landscape (possibly not lava), and then a city is placed (not necessarily Inferno, there may not be a city). It's logical that the starting spawn point coincides with the castle you start with.

In reply to Dirty_Player

KycoK_3a6opa

1/10/2013 4:56 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

You don't understand. First, a zone of a certain size is drawn, then the race type is applied to this zone (for example, Inferno), then the landscape (possibly not lava), and then a Castle is placed (not necessarily an Inferno Castle; there may not be a Castle at all). It's logical that the starting spawn point coincides with the Castle for which you start.

Where did you get the information about the map generation sequence?
Until I get reliable information, I won't take it seriously (just kidding). ))
But still, I spent several hours sitting and trying out several templates and a bunch of spawn points, and everywhere I get the same result.
In general, I can only say that if a player starts playing, say, for Inferno, then in the Pandoras located in that location, they will give units from Inferno, regardless of the terrain (even if snow is generated). The main thing is what the main Castle is, because it seems that the computer generates the map in such a way that it is beneficial to that player. So, what's the point of, say, Tazar, who started in a Fortress, having 40 zombies, if it would be much better to have 40 Lizard Archers! In general, these are my observations. I can only say one thing: my observations are correct, because I spent the whole day today generating maps and checking, and I haven't been wrong once.
P.S. If a Pandora is taken, say, in a treasure where there are no Castles at all, then neutral units will be given (mummies, snipers, anyeaters, boars, etc.).

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

In reply to KycoK_3a6opa

Dirty_Player

1/10/2013 5:27 PM UTC

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KycoK_3a6opa

ps. If Pandora is taken, let's say, in a treasure where there are no castles at all, then neutral units will be given (mummies, snipers, devourers, boars, etc.).

No. In the 2sm4d(3) template, there are no castles in the treasures at all, and the landscape is also random, BUT each zone is definitely tied to a certain type, possibly even a neutral one. You can often see a swamp treasure, and on it, hiding places for minotaurs, medusas... In Pandora, accordingly, they will give ONLY troops from the Dungeon.

In reply to Dirty_Player

KycoK_3a6opa

1/10/2013 5:35 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

No. The 2sm4d(3) template doesn't have any castles at all, and the landscape is random, BUT each zone is tied to a specific type, possibly even a neutral one. You can often see a swamp zone, and on it, there are lairs of minotaurs, medusas... In Pandora, it will give ONLY troops from the Dungeon.

I wrote that the type of soil has nothing to do with what units will be given in Pandora! Please read more carefully) no offense))\
I already said and even gave an example when the soil was sand, but they gave units from Inferno, and all because throughout the area (specifically on the sand) there were outposts of the Inferno (Cerberus dens, Fire Pits, and Demon Gates), so in Pandora they gave exactly units from Inferno, which is what I'm trying to say here, and you just said the same thing to me))\
I want to say that if Pandora gives troops, then the type of troop will depend on which race/city the territory belongs to, but not the type of terrain (even if there is no city on it, but there may be lairs/outposts/dwellings) on which Pandora is located!\
ps. I used to think that the troops were given completely randomly, and I think many newbies think the same way, so I decided to talk about the fact that this is not the case, but that there is a certain pattern in which specific troops will appear in a particular situation, that's all) If you were aware of this, I will be happy if you support me or add something))\
ps. I just asked initially, and no one answered me, but instead suggested that I experiment myself and give the result, which I actually did) If I'm wrong about something, please excuse me, I will be happy to receive a correct explanation))\
pss. Why, when I initially created the topic, did no one give me an answer?! And now, when I spent the whole day trying and got what I wanted, everyone started writing and offering their arguments!\
In general, I got an answer to my question, which I initially asked myself in this topic, so the topic can be closed! thank you all)

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

dnaop-wr

1/10/2013 6:46 PM UTC

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You did the right thing by creating a thread on this topic. Often, after asking a question and not receiving an answer, I would find the solution myself. Or, seeing an interesting question from someone else, I would try to figure it out – and in the process, I would sometimes learn interesting things that I hadn't even thought about before.
Good luck!

Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html

Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html

KycoK_3a6opa

1/11/2013 3:43 AM UTC

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By the way, why does the ammunition cart work even when it's not on the battlefield, but is in the hero's inventory? For example, in the Dragon Utopian map, in the Conflux, and in all the treasure rooms? Is this a bug?

Stop hard - Go Pro!:smile49:

dnaop-wr

1/11/2013 8:59 AM UTC

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I don't think it's a bug – the hero has it in his inventory. It's just that it wasn't dragged into the utopia, and the arrows are being fired from behind the door :D. The tent also seems to work (I'm not entirely sure). Apparently, there isn't enough space for combat units when forming a circle. But it's an interesting question, and it raises several more. Perhaps the answers can be found in the Physics Engine – I haven't checked it in a while.

Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html

Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html