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Are you okay with the turn time limit of 8(L)-10(XL) minutes in SoD?
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In reply to rebellious
Offline B100dy
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#122
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The rebel's post is very reminiscent of a joke about a blonde and a car: -I bought a car from you, and the next day it broke down and doesn't work. -Have you tried putting gas in it? How does the rebel's post relate to the topic of discussion in any way?
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Offline КостяN
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#123
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Andrey Rebeliuos is absolutely right – I agree with him. For those who need it explained: you're fighting against long wait times, forgetting that the main part of the time spent playing against an unfamiliar opponent (in a tournament, for example) is taken up by things happening outside the actual game, rather than the game itself – and everything is described accurately, exactly how it happens. Restarts, waiting for the opponent to appear, connections, clarifying rules (because the rules are different for different templates and tournaments), etc., etc., etc.:smile17:! So, THIS all eats up hours and hours (based on my own bitter experience). Those who don't have time for Heroes don't play them (that's the moral of the story).

P.S. WCG:D... hmm:rolleyes: It's easier to believe that communism will come and win than that Heroes will be featured in WCG in any form. Unless it's something like TK-3, but so that time passes for both players in the final, because there can also be epic battles lasting 2-3 hours... But without "all sorts of nonsense" (using Kalabashov's dialect), it's technically impossible (HD-mod also falls under the definition of "nonsense," right?:) and there's no guarantee that it's achievable). Peace to all:smile02:.

P.P.S. I watched Sevensan's "promotional" stream about M200% on skirmish – I liked the unconventional, dynamic gameplay, and I even started to think that I wanted to download SOD and join a company, BUT the only thing I didn't like completely deterred me from this rash step – the constant "9-8-7-6-5-4-...-0 seconds remaining." I naively thought that there wouldn't be much to do on these templates, that it would be a dull game of "copetoliy" or something like that, but it turns out that's not the case – no, I won't be lured into strategic templates for 4 minutes:smile27:... I can imagine what it would be like for me; I play about 1.5-2 times slower than the streamer:D :D :D ........
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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In reply to КостяN
Offline B100dy
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#124
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Fortunately, those with exceptional talents understand that there are things like gravity, which you can't fight – it simply exists.
And alongside it, you can list human unpunctuality, clumsiness, and so on. Oh yes, these are precisely the things that Rebellius mentioned.
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In reply to kalababa
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Offline numOne
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#125
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kalababa
A few facts about WCG:
1. To get there, you need to pay, and it's not a small amount.
2. In the game, everything should be limited to the game itself, without any unnecessary stuff, like in WCG and similar events.
3. The game duration should not exceed 1 hour; I don't remember any game where a match lasted longer than an hour.
4. Most often, the games are promoted by hardware manufacturers. But Heroes can run even on a basic computer, so advertisers are not interested in Heroes, and therefore not in WCG either.
5. For a game to be included in WCG, it must pass through pilot tournaments; I hope I don't need to explain the scale of this.

So, you understand in which direction you need to act to get Heroes into WCG. Good luck.

+1.

Heroes only make sense to develop in the online space. You could try to enter some league like CPL or something similar (although I'm not sure if this is the right direction). For offline play, the game is too specific – you can't just come in the morning and leave in the evening. Any decent-sized tournament will last for several days, and then there will be barbecues, socializing, poker, and the game itself will take a back seat.
Another nuance: not many people play Heroes (again, due to the time commitment), but almost everyone knows this game, FOR NOW, and is willing to watch "those horses" in streams. Offline, apart from two or three random spectators, it won't attract anyone.
Therefore, if you can make any profit from Heroes, you need to look for it only online – where there are enough viewers, there will always be sponsor interest. Forget about WCG. And, of course, you need a chess timer for greater sportsmanship and spectacle, and it definitely shouldn't be 4000+400.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline ariputra
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#126
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kalababa

A few facts about the World Cyber Games:
1. To participate, you need to pay, and it's not a small amount.
2. The game should be limited to the game itself, without any extra stuff, like in Warcraft and StarCraft.
3. The game duration should be no more than 1 hour; I can't remember any game where a match lasted longer than an hour.
4. Most often, the games are promoted by hardware manufacturers. But Heroes of Might and Magic works even on basic computers; advertisers are not interested in Heroes, and therefore, not in the World Cyber Games either.
5. For a game to be included in the World Cyber Games, it must pass through pilot tournaments; I hope I don't need to explain the scale of this.

So, you understand in which direction you need to act to get Heroes included in the World Cyber Games. Good luck.

All of this is true, but:

1) Don't underestimate the fact that the next World Cyber Games will be held in China.

2) Officially, the World Cyber Games has abandoned Warcraft 3; no one sponsors it anymore, or at least not to the same extent as StarCraft 2. But at the World Cyber Games that took place two days ago, Warcraft 3 was still present.

In my opinion, this is because some of the best Warcraft pro gamers live in China, and they "love" this game there.

For the Communist Party of China, the fact that the official world championship (even if it's a computer game) is held in their country is still significant.

3) I think there are many good Heroes players in China, and considering the population, there will be a lot of interest in the broadcasts.

4) We just need to try, at least, to officially contact the World Cyber Games.

The main thing is to get them interested, and if they are interested, then some 50-100 thousand dollars for tickets, accommodation, and prize money will probably not be a problem for the Communist Party of China, with which all events are coordinated, and especially the official world championship.

5) Considering the specifics of the game, 2-2.5 hours per game should be possible. And considering the 2-minute time limit on M-U maps, for example, the hardcore and extreme elements will be no less than in Warcraft and StarCraft, so there will be interest.
_______________

But all of this is just talk; sometimes, I start to think that maybe I should stop playing computer games and do something more useful.
Дурман мирской любви сильнее яда кобры, он глупым может сделать мудреца и увести от цели благородной и дух и волю война храбреца.
"Неизвестная история человечества. Запрещенная археология (с иллюстрациями), Майкл Кремо, Ричард Томпсон,479с,1.46 Мб.
Вакцинация младенцев в роддомах преступление!
Вред прививок или правда о вакцинации
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Offline numOne
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#127
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ariputra
All of this is true, but:

1) We shouldn't dismiss the possibility that the next WCG will be held in China.

2) The WCG has officially abandoned Warcraft 3; no one sponsors it anymore, or at least not to the same extent as Starcraft 2. However, Warcraft 3 was still featured at the WCG that took place two days ago.

In my opinion, this is because some of the best Warcraft players live in China, and the game is popular there.

For the Communist Party of China, the fact that an official world championship (even if it's for video games) is held in their country is still significant.

3) I think there are many good Heroes players in China, and considering the population, there will be considerable interest in the broadcasts.

4) We should simply try to officially contact the WCG.

The main thing is to get them interested, and if they are interested, I think 50-100 thousand dollars for tickets, accommodation, and prize money won't be a problem for the Communist Party of China, with which all events are coordinated, and especially an official world championship.

5) Given the nature of the game, I think it will be possible to allocate 2-2.5 hours per match. And considering the 2-minute time limit on Melee maps, for example, the hardcore and extreme elements will be no less than in Warcraft and Starcraft, so there will be interest.

:smile52: You made me laugh, thank you!
Even now, on the Warcraft section of battle.net, when WC3 is already "dead," there are regularly around 100,000 people (I don't know the exact number, I haven't checked in a while), and this is only on the European server. When people started moving away from it after the release of SC2, there were twice as many. Nevertheless, the game is dying, and most people are switching to the more promising and sponsored SC2. WC3 at the WCG this year is a dying gasp, and it's no longer a WORLD Cyber Games, and Heroes certainly don't qualify as a game of global significance.
Although you can indulge in wishful thinking as much as you want, no one is stopping you.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline kalababa
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#128
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Ariputra, take off your rose-tinted glasses, or put a disclaimer in your signature that everything written above is sarcasm :fp:

Added 6 minutes later
numOne
+1.

Heroes only make sense to develop in online play; you could try joining a league like CPL or something similar (although I'm not sure if that's the right direction).
No tournament will ever support Heroes. Accept reality. Only through your own efforts, with a ton of restrictions, with rules that are a mile long, and everything else. The time of Heroes is over, although, objectively speaking, it never really existed :(
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Offline Nestor86
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#129
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kalababa
The time of heroes is over, although, to be objective, it never really existed :(
I don't know when Heroes first appeared, but in St. Petersburg, they were very popular.

Added 2 minutes later
I think we should first bring back diplomacy to the portal, and then reduce the game time.
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In reply to kalababa
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Offline numOne
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#130
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kalababa

No tournament will ever support heroes; never!

I don't think that's entirely true; it just needs to be addressed. There are small leagues where, in addition to the main games, there are many secondary ones. They are all built on the principle of "the more players (see website traffic), the better," and no one will refuse a couple of extra thousand users who boost their website's metrics. Besides, introducing a new discipline won't be difficult from a programming standpoint.
Realize the reality. Only through your own efforts, with a bunch of restrictions, with rules that are a mile long, and so on.
I agree with that. But, in general, this is something that can be fixed. There are already WTs (Warmode Tournaments) with a minimum of restrictions, there are password-protected saves, there is a chess timer, and quick games can be replayed. We need to do what I recently suggested: add a checkbox in the WT settings that says "Maximum for SOD" (something like "HD+" in the HD mode), so that when you click it, the settings with time (for example, 2000+400) are set by default, and this is accepted as a standard.
It's not that complicated if you think about it.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline Qwerty
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#131
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2 NumOne
Yes, it's not that difficult, but it's a different game. In China, there is a variation of chess. But while they were playing it, no one played with them. And when they started, among other things, to forcibly introduce world chess, world champions and quite respectable teams appeared.
Playing in a narrow circle guarantees gradual extinction.
It is necessary to integrate with the world.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
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Offline Lider1
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#132
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Nestor86
I don't know when Heroes first appeared, but they were very popular in St. Petersburg.

Added 2 minutes later
I think we should first bring back diplomacy to the portal, and then reduce the game time.

Kalababa is talking about a completely different level. The level of Warcraft, Starcraft, etc. - real esports. And "I don't know when Heroes first appeared, but they were very popular in St. Petersburg" - That's funny.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline numOne
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#133
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Qwerty
2 NumOne
Yes, it's not that complicated, but it's a different game.
I just don't understand what everyone is so hung up on with this "different game," "different game." It's the same game, called Heroes 3, just with some minor nuances. If you follow your logic, then every tournament is a different game. Take, for example, FB, Lyubimchikov, and M 200% - everywhere it's a different game, but no one has died from it. And when SOD players say that VT is a different game, without ever having played the latter, I'm just speechless.

Our whole problem is that no one wants to compromise, even on the simplest things, no one wants to move, but we are very good at arguing about VCG.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline Wicc
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#134
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The era of Heroes may be over, but the aura of past glory can allow them to live on for a long time, so talk about the future of Heroes is quite justified. In order for the game to claim the title of a competitive and spectacular esport, at least the following conditions are needed: 1) Fast and dynamic gameplay. 2) Approximately equal starting conditions. In the context of Heroes, this should look something like this: 1) Mirror matches are a must; otherwise, equal starting conditions cannot be achieved. 2) Chess timer, short time control (600+300 or so), the game should keep the viewer in suspense, less deliberation, more action. 3) If the map does not provide for contact in the first week, then simultaneous turns until day 6; the map exploration phase is not as interesting as battles with each other. The version is not that important; you can tune up SoD (Shadow of Death), but you will have to synchronize the starting army, disable morale/stacking, and think about individual overpowered heroes, it is better to limit them programmatically rather than at the rule level. It is not necessary to look for balance in terms of castles, spells, map objects, and so on; they will still be the same. It is also worth considering a timer in battles against each other, so that they don't spend half an hour thinking there either. It is clear that it should be a separate item, not particularly mixed with the main timer.
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Offline =Stinger=
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#135
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numOne
I simply can't understand what everyone is so worked up about with this "different game," "different game." It's still the same game, called Heroes 3, just with some minor nuances. If you follow that logic, then every tournament is a different game. Take, for example, FB, Lyubimchikov, and M 200% – each one is a different game, but no one has died from it. And when SOD players say that VT is a different game, without ever having played the latter, I'm just speechless.

I strongly agree. It's one game, and that's enough. I think any player who has played a certain number of games on SOD and VT understands this. And when it comes to preferences, that's a matter of personal choice.
It's hard to argue and try to prove anything to people who don't understand, or simply don't want to understand. And frankly, no one really needs to.

As for me, I wasn't too worried about time constraints before. First, I was a student, then I worked, then I got married, then I had children...
And with each new stage, it becomes harder to spend time, even on a favorite game. I don't want to claim that all the people who vote to increase the time limit are students who have nothing to do and are willing to spend a lot of time on moves, or like Cobra, who works from home but plays at the same time. As a result, we'll end up with this: a sandbox for SOD, a sandbox for VT, a sandbox for SOD with a small time limit/a large one, and the same for VT. The more this goes on, the more scattered and unstable things become, and it seems that there's no other way.
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Offline Nagan-4
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#136
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The further we go, the more scatter and instability there is, and it seems there's no other way.

Tyoma, this is better than nothing at all. Let there be sandboxes, let people gather, play, and make friends rather than just arguing. Let there be Tournaments for WT, tournaments for SoD, club and online ones. This is better than an all-out war of attrition.
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