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Posts from Heroes-4 "Deep forest" off-line Tournaments!

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Offline ZveroBoy
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#1
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Happy New Year 2007 to all you monsters!

Attention!
I invite everyone who wishes to take part in an OFF-LINE TOURNAMENT
For the game «Heroes of Might and Magic IV» played on the map «Deep forest»
The tournament starts today (01.01.2007). The goal of the tournament is to capture all cities.

Tournament Rules:
1. The game is played ONLY on the version Heroes of Might and Magic IV: Winds of War.
2. Using cheat codes during the final Walkthrough of a save is prohibited.
3. Restarting or any other modification of the starting save is prohibited.
4. Entering a boat without losing a turn (using the spacebar) is prohibited.
5. The use of "completely Dead external dwellings" on the battlefield is prohibited.
(I will explain in more detail what this is for those who don't understand: I consider a "Dead external dwelling" to be
a COMPLETELY closed area, for example with rocks or logs, which contains
a small island for a unit, such as a fairy, harpy, vampire, etc.
That is, a place that cannot be entered by land by a unit of the smallest
size (3x3) and can only be accessed by air—a kind of natural fortress. Having such an external dwelling, one fairy could beat a hundred Black Dragons and win an impossible battle; to avoid such situations, I prohibit "Dead external dwellings" in this tournament.)
6. EVERYTHING ELSE IS PERMITTED.
(Full use of grave technologies including raising the corpse of a hero
using the spacebar, leveling up the corpse on crystals, wheels, and establishments,
acceleration, splitting armies for transport through gaps, an unlimited number
of heroes on the map beyond eight, and so on.

A "not dead external dwelling," or more accurately a semi-open one, is permitted in this tournament.
By a semi-open external dwelling, I mean a place where a unit or Hero can
enter on foot, while the attacking monsters, regardless of their size, must be able to reach the Hero or unit to strike them (the point of a semi-open external dwelling is to limit the number of monsters attacking you simultaneously). Besides, it's not right for a Hero to hide in an external dwelling while the enemies are wasting themselves on whatever. Our Heroes fight with open visors.

In this tournament, results are evaluated with priority given to time—i.e., the faster, the better. Then come points and gold.

Official end date of the tournament 25.02.2007. UPDATED
Winning saves can, of course, be sent earlier—that is, at any time—but
no later than the official deadline.

Requirements for the final save:
1. The final save should require only one action from me for victory (pressing the auto-battle button if victory in the game is achieved by winning a battle, or pressing the end turn button if victory is achieved by passing the turn).
2. The save should be named with your nickname and the number of days spent on the
Walkthrough, for example: (ZveroBoy18, where ZveroBoy is the player's nick and 18 is the number of days); it is also highly desirable to compress the save with WinRar before sending.
3. I ask all participants to make and keep saves at the end of each game day and after every ambiguous battle (1 hero against 100 angels, 1 fairy against 300 monsters ...)

Please send winning saves here: ZvereBoy@mail.ru

The final list of results will be posted on March 3-4. Also,
the winner will be required to provide a day-by-day description of the Walkthrough.
It would also be good if the monsters who decide to take part in
this tournament notified me by email in a couple of lines or left
a message in this forum thread, so that I can publish an approximate
list of participants to further fire the imagination of our esteemed audience.


Well, that's all; download the starting save and good luck in the game!



If you have any questions, write them here, I will answer.

Answering questions:
Generally, "external dwellings" are essentially an unfixed game bug and introduce a severe imbalance into the combat system, which is why I want to hold the tournament in more natural combat conditions—let's see what comes of it. Using a forbidden external dwelling, for example, one could easily wipe out the Nomads hanging around the "Mercenary Camp" on the first day by hiring a Necromancer with the Poison spell, and at the same time take out Tigers and wolves in the "Wooded Glen" by poisoning the monsters and hiding in an external dwelling that neither nomads nor tigers can enter because they are larger than the Hero. So try dealing with the monsters face to face without an external dwelling; there is a lot of pleasure in that too.

I also forgot to announce immediately that it IS PERMITTED to discuss the possibilities of completing this save in real time—that is, right during the tournament you can express your thoughts on strategy and tactics development in this forum thread. For example, if someone wishes, they can describe their actions for, say, the first game day (Something like: Sandro leveled up to 6, Level 2 Death Magic studied, Leprechauns and Fairies wiped out, Golden Armor obtained,
18 gold coins accumulated, and so on). Why is all this needed?
Usually, on Hero resources, discussing current tournaments is forbidden. To me,
it always seemed that playing alone is a bit boring, which is why I want
participants to exchange their thoughts; this is useful for sparking interest in
Heroes-4 among beginning players and, accordingly, for attracting them to the game.


















Final table of current player results for the Deep_forest Tournament as of 06.03.2007
№ NICK DAYS POINTS GOLD RANK IN TOURNAMENT
0 ZveroBoy 10 1717 59746 Tournament Host
1 IronAxe 13 1735 105055 1
2 Psixxx 27 - - 2
3 OptiMAL 53 1332 57694 3
4 Sage 153 - - 4
5 Спай - - - -
6 AlexeyPank - - - -
7 AndersonAD - - - -
8 Alex R - - - -
9 CJLaB9IHUH - - - -
10 - - - - -
11 - - - - -
12 - - - - -
Congratulations to the Tournament winner IronAxe on the VICTORY!!!
Attention all players! As of 26.02.2007, I am granting this Tournament indefinite status, which means that if a player is found who can improve the winner's result, their name will be entered into this table and the result will be updated. Saves can be sent at any time to my email address. Thanks to everyone who spent their time playing in my tournament. Sincerely, ZveroBoy.
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Offline IronAxe
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#46
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ZveroBoy;61034
You have to trade for crystals on the market even after the demon captures a group near the Satyrs, but still, by the middle of the fifth day, you only have enough money to buy one vampire. In principle, if you track every coin from the first day, you probably should have enough for a second vampire as well. I spent a lot of gold on buying skeletons and demons; I could probably have managed with fewer.
So, it all comes down to money, and you can easily collect 8 crystals?
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#47
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IronAxe;61038
So, it all comes down to money, and you can easily collect 8 crystals?

That's exactly what I'm saying – you need to count every penny before
spending it on anything, and you still have to exchange crystals on the market
for gems and other resources.

Added after 7 hours and 40 minutes
IronAxe;60961
Breaks :) But I'll think about this question some more. Will you have enough money and crystals on the 5th day to build Vampires?

Well, I finished the 5th day, and at the end of the day, everything is built, and I bought two
Vampires. I still have 30 gold coins and 4 logs left. The
Halflings are standing at the Heroes' stable, and the Vampires are hanging out at the Sacred Fountain; in the morning, they will attack the Satyrs and Leprechauns at the Crystal
Mine.
Now, the main thing is to reach the Shipyard. :smile26:
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#48
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IronAxe;60942
I was choosing such maps. But what about the limits regarding the map size?

I did some calculations regarding the leprechauns, and it turns out that
On the first day, Sandro can easily increase his mana level with their help (ideally up to 324 units, plus his initial 40, totaling 364 units). With that level, he might not even need to return to the castle.
I also calculated a bit, and according to my walkthrough, there is
(but it seems only theoretically) a possibility to put Sandro in a boat at the end of the sixth day. But that would be an even bigger hassle than clearing out the nomads with fairies on the first day, as you suggested.:)
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Offline IronAxe
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#49
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ZveroBoy;62070
Iron, I did some quick calculations here regarding the leprechauns, and it turns out
On the first day, Sandro can easily pump up his mana level using them (ideally up to 324 units plus his initial 40, totaling 364 units); with that level, he honestly might not even need to return to the Fortress.
Meaning he won't pick up not only the vampire strike, but even third-level magic. Do you think it's possible to complete it without those?
ZveroBoy;62070

I did some more calculations for my Walkthrough variant and it turns out there is (though likely only theoretically) a possibility to put Sandro in the boat at the end of the sixth day. But that would be an even bigger pain than having fairies knock out nomads on the first day, which you suggested :)
Do you mean that this happens if you play through your variant, but just max out Sandry's mana, or what?
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#50
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IronAxe;62146
So, he won't be able to withstand a vampire attack, nor will he be able to cast third-level spells. Do you think it's possible to complete the game without that?

Do you mean that, while replaying with your strategy, you'll just max out Sandor's mana?

In the first case, after maxing out his mana, you should immediately start
building Vampires and playing with their support, and then use the Vampire's attack
on the monk, and then head to the Fortress.

And in the second case, I meant that you can put Sandor in the boat on
the end of the sixth day if you replay my current strategy, starting
somewhere in the middle of the fourth day (specifically, you need to
defeat the Leprechauns with one Fairy near the Stream of Speed; this seems possible if you collect some morale, but I was defeating them with Sandor and therefore didn't have time to destroy the first Medusa outpost near the Sacred Fountain at the end of the day). Then,
you just need to avoid the Satyrs, i.e., simply bypass them
and again defeat the Cerberuses near the Shrine of Death 3 with a Fairy, and then defeat a group of Trolls and
a group of Medusas again with Sandor, but before that,
you need to defeat the Halflings near the Stable with Solmyr and speed up the Fairies and Imps,
but this is quite possible; somewhere near the end, Sandor should be joined by Vampires,
but they won't be able to get into the boat in time, but Sandor can jump in literally on the last
turn. :)
But this is a very difficult strategy; if someone decides to play it, I wouldn't
envy them. By the way, in the middle of the sixth day, it is quite possible to defeat
the Forge with a Fairy and a handful of Skeletons and buy Sticky Fluid there;
it can be very useful for Sandor when disembarking from the boat, as
he will be attacked by Harpies. :eek:
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Offline Спай
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#51
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I don't quite understand how to get 324 mana. Is it possible with Leprechauns? But you can get much less mana from them, even considering that they split into 4 units!
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Offline IronAxe
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#52
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Spay;62232
I didn't quite get how to get 324!!! mana??
From leprechauns??? But you can drain much less mana from them, even considering that they split into 4 squads!
And you forgot that ZveroBoy can pull the grave using space. And on this map, you can manage without it. Attack with a hero near the city gates, build up mana, and die. Resurrect the hero, and so on. In my Walkthrough, I got 100 mana.

Added after 5 minutes
ZveroBoy;62218
In the first case, immediately after building up mana, you need to start building Vampires and play with their support, and for Vampire Strike, use a monk and then retreat to the Fortress.
I don't quite understand you. If after building vampires you THEN retreat again to the Fortress for Vampire Strike, can we forget about boarding the boat on day 6-7? Is that it?
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#53
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IronAxe;62263
You forgot that with the Beastmaster, you can revive a hero by pressing the spacebar. And on this map, you can manage without it. Attack with a hero near the city gates, gain mana, and let him die. Revive the hero, and so on. In my playthrough, I got 100 mana.

Added 5 minutes later

I don't quite understand you. If, after building the Vampires, you then go to the Fortress for Vampiric Strike, you can forget about getting into the boat on days 6-7. Is that right?


You'll have to get into the boat without the Vampires and capture the Nature Fortress
without the Vampiric Strike, but once you capture the second Fortress,
you can buy a third hero there, and Sandro should die.
Then they should escape from some battlefield with Sandro's corpse,
it will revive in its Fortress, learn Vampiric Strike there, and then go back to the Nature Fortress. That's what I meant.
Iron.

Spike Iron is right; you just need to attack
Leprechauns with one Imp and two Skeletons so that the Leprechauns split into four groups, and then make sure the Imp efficiently drains mana from them, and do this 27 times (27*12=324).
I thought you had already stopped playing my tournament. :)
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Offline IronAxe
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#54
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ZveroBoy;62375
You'll have to board the boat without vampires and capture the Nature Fortress
without the vampiric strike. But once you capture the second Fortress,
you can buy a third hero there, and Sandro should be defeated.
Then they should escape from some battlefield; Sandro's corpse
will revive at his Fortress, learn the vampiric strike there, and then attack the Nomads again and return to the Nature Fortress. That's what I meant.
Iron.
Such a retreat won't be beneficial. Turns will be wasted on escaping to the Fortress and boarding the boat. Even if you use a Tomb Guard with a weak hero to escape, it's still just a couple of weak heroes, and you won't be able to do it in one turn.
ZveroBoy;62375

Spy, Iron is right; you just need to attack the
Leprechauns with one Imp and two Skeletons so that the Leprechauns split into four groups, and then make sure the Imp efficiently drains their mana, and do that
27 times (27*12=324).
I thought you had already stopped playing my tournament. :)
Damn, how do you efficiently drain mana? I haven't come up with anything smarter than attacking with three Imps. It's complicated; these guys waste mana on each other. Unless you maneuver with a hero, but even then, it doesn't always work.
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Offline Спай
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#55
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ZveroBoy;62375
You'll have to get into the boat without vampires and capture the Nature Fortress.
You'll have to do it without the vampiric strike, but once you capture the second fortress,
you can buy a third hero there, and Sandro should be defeated.
Then they should escape from some battlefield, and Sandro's corpse
will revive again from his fortress, learn the vampiric strike there, and return to the Nature Fortress. That's what I meant.
Iron.

Spy, Iron is right, you just need to attack the
Leprechauns with one Imp and two Skeletons so that the Leprechauns split into four groups, and then make sure the Imp efficiently drains mana from them, and do that
27 times (27*12=324).
I thought you had already stopped playing in my tournament :)


No, I haven't forgotten, I'm just tired. I played on the portal throughout 2006, became a Grandmaster, that's it, I need to rest, and it's also disappointing that only you and Iron are playing in the tournament :(
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Offline IronAxe
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#56
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Spai;62475
No, I haven't forgotten, I'm just tired. I played on the portal for the whole of 2006, became a Grand Master, that's it, I need to rest. And it's also a pity that only you and Iron are playing in the tournament :(
Forget about it. It's not really a tournament if you can discuss it during the playthrough. I might not be able to finish on time either. I think we'll still have time before the tournament, and this, as I understand it, is an introductory part from Zveroboy, to understand the public's opinion regarding the legality of playing through maps in the fourth game. And how long it takes to complete, and what needs to be done to
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#57
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Spike;62475
No, I haven't forgotten, I'm just tired. I played on the portal all of 2006, became a Grand Master, that's it, I need to rest. And it's also a pity that only you and Iron are playing in the tournament :(

Don't worry, Spike, you can't do everything anyway, and you should play for fun. I, for example, only play that way. You can also understand the monsters; the rules are not familiar to them (by the way, I started all this because I wanted to try different rules). They are more used to the Portal, and besides, the Royal Games have started there now, so many people simply don't have time (although I personally don't like the Royal Games, but I will play a couple of tournaments there later).
Yes, there are about four duels going on, not everyone has a lot of free time.
Well, there's also a version that they are afraid of Iron; he is armored after all. :)
But seriously, this is just a warm-up.
Soon, I am going to patent a formula for measuring the strength of a game in the fourth installment, which will realistically reflect the combat strength of a player, expressed in some Zvero units or simply in Z units. Based on this, it will be possible to calculate many players who have ever played or are currently playing. The specific time it takes to complete a tournament will not matter.
I will post the lists with the strength rating here later.
Somewhere here, I want to organize a permanent offline certification tournament consisting of two or three maps. After playing them, any player will receive an official Z rating, something like a chess Elo rating. Well, I got a little carried away and strayed from the topic of the current tournament.
I'm not in a hurry, and I decided to replay my save from the fourth day. By the way, my result will not be in the official list of players; I am the host, I play just for fun, although I will post the numbers in the thread.
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Offline IronAxe
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#58
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ZveroBoy;62661

Well, there's also the theory that they're afraid of Ironhide because he's armored, after all. :)
But seriously, it's just a warm-up.

I don't quite understand. They're beating me up here. So I'm not to blame for anything :smile10:. By the way, I'm also on day four. I even had to kill squires and peasants with one Cerberus. That's actually harder than skeletons because it's two units. I tried the fairy option, but I didn't like it. Besides, you're the one testing it.
On day three, I killed the Medusas and captured the Orcish ruins. The hero died and was taken back to the Fortress. Overnight stay. On day four, I defeated the Nomads. I had to give myself Vampiric Strike and Aura of Fear, otherwise they would have overwhelmed me, even though only one Nomad unit attacked me at a time. And that's despite the fact that, in addition to the armor, I also took an altar with swords, increasing the hero's defense. Before the battle, I only had 40 mana. ZveroBoy, how do you defeat the Nomads? Do you spend as much mana?
After the battle, I increased the skill with the cauldron - now I can have 50 mana, but I don't want to go back to the Fortress :) I'm trying to defeat the Leprechauns now, but I spend more mana than I can get from them
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#59
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IronAxe;62692
I don't quite understand. They're really beating me up here. So, I'm not to blame for anything :smile10: I'm also on the fourth day. I even had to kill Cerberuses to deal with squires and peasants. That's actually harder than dealing with skeletons because there are two squads. I tried the fairy option, but I didn't like it. Besides, you're the one testing it.
On the third day, I defeated the Medusas and captured the Orc ruins. The hero died, and they carried him to the Fortress. Overnight stay. On the fourth day, I defeated the Nomads. I had to cast Vampiric Strike and Fear Aura on myself, otherwise they would have overwhelmed me, even though only one Nomad squad attacked me at a time. And that's despite the fact that, in addition to armor, I also took an altar with swords, increasing the hero's defense. Before the battle, I had only 40 mana. Beastmaster, how do you defeat the Nomads? Do you spend that much mana?
After the battle, I increased the skill with the cauldron - now I can have 50 mana, but I don't want to return to the Fortress :) I'm trying to defeat the Leprechauns now. But I'm spending more mana than I can get from them :)

So, you defeated the Medusas without Vampiric Strike?:eek:
I know Vampiric Strike by the beginning of the third day, and then I go
to the Nomads, spend 9 mana on the strike, and either on the curse or
on retaliation, I don't remember exactly, I'll check in the evening.
At first, I also cast General Sadness on them, but then I realized that I could do without it. Then I immediately go to the Medusas near the treasury and defeat them
with Sandro, but at the end of the battle, I deliberately put myself in a vulnerable position so that the Imps would carry Sandro's corpse to the Fortress.
Therefore, it turned out that Sandro went on the main campaign only on
the fourth day. I thought about it a little more and came to
the conclusion that Sandro needs to have at least 120-150 mana by the beginning of the third day, so that he definitely doesn't have to return to the Fortress (and try to get on the boat at the end of the fifth day). In my version, I didn't pump Sandro's mana at all, but now I want to replay and pump
at least 200 mana on the Leprechauns, so I guess I'll
replay from the beginning.:)
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Offline IronAxe
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#60
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ZveroBoy;62796
Didn't you manage to defeat the Medusas without using Vampiric Touch?:eek:
Okay, let's go over it again. I had 68 skeletons, 5 Imps. Sandro only has magic up to level 2. I had about 50-60 mana. I lure the Medusas so that the skeletons attack one of their units first. Then, Raise Dead does the trick. You need to make sure that all three Medusa units don't attack the skeleton unit with melee attacks at the same time. One Medusa unit should use ranged attacks. You can temporarily hold back some units with Imps. Sandro might be distracted by a few shots. Bullies? :) I lost everyone except Sandro and one Imp.
ZveroBoy;62796

I know Vampiric Touch by the beginning of the third day, and then I go
to the Nomads, drain their mana, spend 9 on Vampiric Touch and either on Curse or something else.
I don't bother with the Nomads on the third day. I defeat the Medusas and Orcs. The corpse is brought in at the end of the third day. At the beginning of the fourth day, I learn Vampiric Touch and, with a clear conscience, go to the Nomads. :)
ZveroBoy;62796

The goal is to have Sandro with at least 120-150 mana by the beginning of the third day, so that you definitely don't have to return to the Fortress (and try to get on the boat at the end of the fifth day).
That doesn't work in my case - I need to get Vampiric Touch anyway. Because on the second turn, I build not magic, but Cerberuses, so that they can defeat the skeletons and Squires.
ZveroBoy;62796

I didn't pump Sandro's mana in my version, but now I want to replay and pump
at least 200 mana on the Leprechauns, so I guess I'll be
replaying from the beginning.:)
You won't succeed. If you pump up to 200 mana, Sandro won't be able to attack the Fairies twice, and then they won't surrender to your second hero, right? And I also think that it's unlikely to capture any of the Fortresses without two Vampires. Therefore, I don't see the point in getting on the boat without Vampires. And since the Vampires are behind the hero, I plan to try to level him up in the forest near the Satyrs and increase the natural mana gain by 10 per day. Am I wrong? I just don't want to end up somewhere without Vampires and magic and have to replay. So, for now, the checkpoint is getting on the boat. Let's compare who got on the boat on which day and with what units and troops. And I'm still thinking that the first Fortress to take should be the Chaos Fortress. And I'm also thinking about which second hero to buy. For now, I'm leaning towards a Chaos hero. He can take the Altar of Nobility - this hero can become a pretty good tank, considering that there is Chaos magic First Strike in the Fortress. I just need to figure out where to use his skills. I don't think he can scare away Harpies, or can he? I need to check and think about it. And let's extend the tournament. :)
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