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Posts from ASW – Alternative hero leveling. Auto-translated

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#76
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I suggest using a defensive hero after dodging. Because it's more convenient to keep a hero against archers (position them, and they can shoot). And please update the topic's "header" already; it's inconvenient to search for your options throughout the entire topic.
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#77
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Nargott

What about evasion? Hmm. It remains a single target ability without Battle Dodge. Any ideas on what would be a logical follow-up?
That's the issue. I initially thought of a fog ability, but the summon would remain without a strong alternative, so I had to rework the defense.

Added after 48 seconds
Nargott
I suggest a defensive ward after evasion. Because a ward is easier to maintain against ranged attackers (position yourself, and it starts firing).

And update the topic's "header" already; it's inconvenient to search for your options throughout the entire topic.
It turns out to be the same awkward situation I described ;)
It needs to be updated, no one is arguing)
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#78
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Cities shouldn't be created just to freely distribute Chaos without a guild (like the casualization in Heroes 6).
I don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Chaos comes from the guild, and the reduced amount (because it's not a native resource in the city) can be compensated for by upgrading (Mysteries) and starting spells (1, no more). I didn't suggest any other large number of perks that give Chaos. A high-level Chaos elf will not be able to obtain it without external objects. And it doesn't need to: earning Meteorite under Rainstorm still requires effort.

And if Chaos doesn't come from the guild, well, then Darkness will come instead (either/or). That's also an option to cast under Enchanted/Rainstorm. You can even reduce Chaos to 4% in principle to give a dark alternative to Rainstorm (although, it needs to be tested how it works with mass beam/plague, blindness, and other goodies). More precisely, make Chaos and Darkness 4% (and Summoning and Light 8%).
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#79
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Nargott
I don't quite understand the meaning of the phrase. Chaos comes from the guild, and the reduced amount (because it's not native to the city) can be compensated for by leveling up (Mysteries) and starting spells. I didn't suggest any other bunch of perks that give Chaos. A high-level Chaos elf won't be able to get without external objects. And he doesn't need to: you still have to earn Meteorite under Rain.
Synedrudoballistogeddon is an epic part of the game for elves. The beauty is not only external, but also in the fact that you were able to do it. And now you are suggesting that the elf should fish out Imps and Lords?
Rain of arrows under Meteorite. Shock under Rain. And the entire field, littered with fire? Only a Rain with Berserk under Cursed can compare to that epicness.
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#80
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A rain of arrows under Meteor Shower. Shock under the rain. And the entire battlefield, strewn with fire? Only a rain of arrows with Berserk under a curse can compare in epicness.
But isn't Berserk in Darkness? And Blind? And why should epicness be achieved so easily? What value does it have then?
Here, a demon in Light – that's interesting. But an elf in Chaos under a rain of arrows now – nothing interesting, just a plain standard.

And regarding "epicness" – the problem is only with the magic of the original game in that it requires high-level spells. In WGE, for example, a rain of arrows under Stone Skin looks the same as with Shock in the original (because there, Stone Skin is relevant in terms of damage, and it depends little on Chaos). And if you add Stone Skin with Frost and Deadly Cold. What Shock, what Meteors are there? It's crude and warlock-like.

In general, we're arguing about something else now. The guild doesn't really relate to the topic of progression. If you want different classes of cities – okay, no objections. In this topic, only progression matters.
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#81
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Nargott
So, isn't Berserk supposed to be in Darkness? And Blindness? And why should epicness be achieved so easily? What value does it have then?
Very easily?
Nargott
A demon in Light – that's interesting. But an elf in Chaos under a rainstorm – that's nothing special, just a standard thing.
The elf's upgrade was made for Chaos. Blue druids were also made for Chaos. That's the whole reason.
If you want to summon, you can get it in the guild – that's for low levels, and you'll have to search the map for high levels.
And why would an elf need it? Elf troops are swift and have high attack. There's no time to mess around with summoning.

Added 9 minutes later
By the way, I'd like to add Phantom to a separate perk, or give it with some weak unit (but not in summoning).
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#82
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Besides, what does an elf need it for? Alpha troops are fast and have high attack. There's no time to waste on summoning.
Are you joking? If you played Heroes of Might and Magic, you wouldn't ask such questions.

Summoning is:
1) wasps (if they have decent, adequate knockback). Wasps control the enemy incredibly well while high-initiative elves finish them off. And wasps under a rain spell will give any chaos unit a run for its money.
2) mines - in terms of piercing power for ranged units, no comment needed
3) crystal, wall - to block approaches to ranged units, disable enemy ranged units, plus damage them with druid spikes
4) phantoms on blue ranged units
5) fan - again, a blocker that protects ranged units for free
6) raising the dead - to resurrect low-health ranged units if they are suddenly targeted by arrows or chaos units
7) enhanced fist with blue druids = high damage, piercing any defense

Summoning for elves is everything, with the right spellcasting. In the original game, it will mostly work the same way.

However, build your guild as you like. I don't care. I suggest we return to the topic of character upgrades.
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#83
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Nargott
A comedian? If you played Heroes of Might and Magic, you wouldn't ask such questions.
And what does Heroes of Might and Magic have to do with it? (A few question mark emojis up to China would be nice, as is currently fashionable)
Nargott
Summoning is:
1) wasps (if they have a decent knockback). Wasps control the enemy very well while high-initiative elves take care of him. And wasps under a rain of spells will give an edge to any Chaos.
Elves already have a hero with wasps, and a lot of them;)
Nargott
2) mines - no comment
Summoning is not needed for mines.
Nargott
3) crystal
Even more so.
Nargott
4) phantoms on blue archers
Blue archers are completely blocked, there will be nowhere for the phantom to spawn.
Nargott
5) fan - again, a blocker that blocks archers for free
It's not needed.
Nargott

Summoning for an elf is everything, with the right use of spells.
This means nothing. The elf has 2 tactics - either crush everything in the first rounds or close up, which light and chaos will help with. Don't forget that summoning depends on magic. Chaos too, but there massiveness saves the day.
By the way, only the hive and wasps, which also deal damage, are natural in summoning. Astral and summoning are not light elf traits.
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#84
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But what does WGE have to do with it? (A few question mark emojis up to China would be helpful here, as is currently fashionable).
The fact is that in WGE, the essence of the elves hasn't changed – they remain just as high-initiative, striking first, etc. And all of this is perfectly complemented by the tactical nuances of Summoning.
Summoning isn't needed for mines.
We're talking about the guild right now. A Summoning guild provides more useful spells in Summoning.
The blue arrows will be completely blocked, and there will be nowhere for a phantom to spawn.
But who's to blame if you block them like that? I'll place a phantom in the breakthrough and control the situation.
Elves have 2 tactics: either crush everything in the early rounds or close up, which Light and Chaos help with.
Well, the original game is just poor in tactics. But even with these 2 primitive tactics, Summoning works perfectly. Crystal, mines, a wall for defense. Wasps, a wall for offense (so that the enemy's key stacks don't have time to react or can't reach the attackers in time). If you like Chaos, please, there's a Chaos + Summoning guild option. And take Light from Offense and Defense. Basically, Offense/Defense with Empathy + mass speed for the attack + mass stone skin as protection against the enemy's counterattack (when and if their turn comes). That's all the Light you need. Then finish off the remaining stacks with Wasps.

I would even say that Wasps are a purely elven spell; no one else needs it as much in terms of usefulness, and it doesn't suit anyone as well as it suits the elves. Even the undead don't need Raise Dead to the same extent. If you give this spell to the elves by default, you can forget about Chaos altogether. And the reason is very simple: the entire elf gameplay is built on the advantage in initiative (whether it's a ranged attack when the enemy doesn't have time to approach, or a swift attack when the enemy doesn't have time to counter).
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#85
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Regarding the elf and summoning, here are a couple of thoughts that might be useful.
Firstly, you can enhance the "Fist" and "Swarm" spells. "Swarm," in particular, is already a very good spell due to its ability to push enemies back on the initiative scale, and if its damage is slightly increased, it will be a spell that no one will be ashamed to use alongside arrow storms. "Fist" can be made a higher-level spell (although I'm not sure what to do with the first-level summoning spell then).
I have an idea that positive spells could be applied to arrows and fired at your own units. Then it would be great: cast "Phantom" on an arrow and, boom, you have three or four phantoms. And this tactic wouldn't be completely overpowered, as your own units would suffer.
 

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#86
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Don't forget that summoning depends on magic. Chaos also depends on it, but the sheer number of units compensates.
By the way, only the Hive and Wasps have a natural summoning ability, and they also deal damage.
But don't Sylvan units grant magic? Besides, Wasps don't really need magic.

Besides Wasps and the Hive, Elementals, Phoenix, and Earthquake also have natural summoning abilities. And I don't understand why you're now rejecting the idea that Elves need summoning for aesthetic reasons?
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#87
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Nargott
Even though the essence of the Elves hasn't changed in the game – they remain as high-initiative, first-strike units, etc. And all these tactical nuances of Summoning fit perfectly with that.
We're talking about the guild now. The Summoning guild provides more useful spells in Summoning.
But who's to blame if you close them off so much? I'll put a Phantom in the attack and take control.
I'll see how you fare when a vampire flies into your formation.

Added 3 minutes ago
Ment
I have a couple of thoughts about the Elf and Summoning, maybe someone will find them useful.
Firstly, you can enhance Fist and Hive. Hive, I must say, is already a very pleasant spell due to its pushing effect on the turn order, and if the damage is slightly increased, no one will be ashamed to cast it on volleys of arrows. Fist can be made a higher-level spell (although I don't know what to do with the first level of Summoning then).
Hive and the Hive spell definitely need to be included somehow. Chaos lacks the Elven element – earth, which is a disadvantage. Elves didn't master astral magic either. The Hive spell is available to the Dire Elves. Maybe these spells should be moved to other schools?
Nargott

I have an idea to allow positive spells to be cast on arrows and then fire them at your own units. Then it would be great: cast Phantom on an arrow and – bam – three or four Phantoms. And it wouldn't be completely overpowered, as your own units would suffer.
I wonder if that's possible? :)

Added 2 minutes ago
Nargott

By nature, in Summoning, besides wasps and the Hive, there are also elementals, a phoenix, and an earthquake.
This isn't nature, but an element. The same one as in Chaos. Only this one can move. Of these elementals, only the stone ones could be considered native.
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#88
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I'll be watching you when a vampire flies into your hole.
A vampire? In a breakthrough? Are you kidding?

If it's not clear, let me explain: elves are blocked by ents, leaving a space for a phantom. On the first turn, no one can break through; a phantom is placed. That's it.

In the final stage, you can act similarly, depending on the chosen tactic. The question is whether the opponent will have time to counter the phantom with area-of-effect chaos spells or arrows. If not, then the game is over.
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#89
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Nargott
A vampire? In a rush attack? Are you kidding?
I'm talking about a city, and you're talking about a village.
Nargott

In the final stage, you can act similarly, depending on the chosen tactic. The question is whether the opponent can counter the Phantom with area-of-effect Chaos or arrows in time. If not, then it's game over.
He will. If he wants to live, he'll be able to do anything.
As I said, the Phantom will have a perk, and the elf won't need to summon it to get it.
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#90
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Could these spells be moved to other schools?
I haven't heard such a strange idea in a long time. If you want to mess around with summoning an elf and a dwarf (mixing perks without changing schools), that's your right. The normal solutions have long been obvious.
As I said, the phantom will come with the perk, and the elf won't need it to be summoned.
If this perk is not in the summoning school, then my opinion of this is: no.
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