Posts from ASW – Alternative hero leveling. Auto-translated

I'm about to fall off my chair. Dodge is a guaranteed death for Ossir (a significant weakening for the Elf) and the Mage.

Go ahead and fall. ;) Stone Skin is much more useful. Against a Mage and an Elf, Dodge can compete in TE, where it is more powerful, while Stone Skin is weaker.
Expert Dodge reduces damage by 70% from 1-3 ranged units (in TE, it's 80%), while Expert Stone Skin reduces damage by approximately 35% (in TE, approximately 25%) from all units, including ranged ones.
However, on the other hand, Mass Dodge is purely a counter-spell (to counter ranged units), but Mass Confusion is much stronger in this regard.

A situation where Dodge might be better is when the opponent heavily relies on ranged units + a Machine.

Really? The damage range of archers and ranged units is 75% of their maximum damage. Zealots 40%, Griffons with pikes almost 70%, Izabelas slightly less than 50%, Seraphs about 70% - is this what you call trash?

Okay, let's look at Humans.
Peasants get +33% damage, Archers +60%, Swordsmen +40%, Griffons +50%, Monks +15%, Champions +25%, Seraphs +50%. The average damage increase is around +40% (and that's considering we chose the most advantageous upgrades with a large range; on average, it will be +30-35%). From Punishing, we get +12, or a statistical damage increase of approximately +50%. Clearly, Mass Punishing is stronger.

Added 3 minutes ago

And let's not forget the huge advantage of mass spells, which pushes the hero back by half of their health bar!

But I'm comparing mass spells to each other, and this bonus is present in all of them. Although, in any case, the choice of perk depends on the guild's setup, so it might not be necessary to balance this further.

Added 4 minutes ago

Barbarian Luck is a useless perk; in its current form, it's not needed at all.

It's being adjusted.

What's this "Warlord" perk? The name is funny, and it's not in the right place (if it's supposed to be Inspiration).

Warlord.

March only works for 1 unit, while Machine Loyalty can be given to all races.

Yes, but this loyalty is much more needed by Mages.

Regarding the criticism, I don't even feel the need to defend myself. Since this was just an example, in which the perks are distributed evenly (harmoniously). You don't have that harmony yet.

Added 7 minutes ago

Are we depriving the Necromancer of eternal slavery? Although, it's not very useful, and it's also buggy...

Well, in WGE, it will be very useful due to the HP reduction (small numbers). And, as you can see, I'm also interested in this topic in the context of WGE progression. What's the bug with this perk?

Fall. ;) Stone Skin is much more useful. Against mages and elves, evasion can compete in TE, where it is stronger, and skin is weaker.
Okay, let's consider humans.
Peasants will receive +33% damage, archers +60%, swordsmen +40%, griffins +50%, monks +15%, champions +25%, seraphs +50%. The average damage increase is +40% somewhere (and we even chose the most advantageous upgrades with a large range; on average, it will be +30-35%). From the punishing spell, we get +12, or a statistical damage increase of approximately +50%. Obviously, mass punishing is stronger.

You mixed them up with dirt, instead of saying they are slightly weaker ;) . I showed you that this is not the case, and the spells are strong. Cast the punishing spell, and then the divine spell. The damage will increase noticeably, compared to just casting 2 punishing spells, because the second one won't have much effect...

However, in any case, the choice of perk depends on the situation in the guild, so it may not be necessary to balance it further.

Exactly...

It is being adjusted.

With what?

Well, in WGE, it will be very useful due to the HP denomination. And, as you understand, I am also interested in this topic in the context of WGE leveling. What is the bug with this perk?

You said yourself that WGE is not involved, but now it is.... It doesn't always restore everyone, it seems to restore those it can - that's the bug. The exact description was on Ag.ru.

You mixed them with dirt, instead of saying they are slightly weaker.

"Slightly" means 2 times weaker on average. The situation in the same game is more or less balanced. If parallel TE-ification of spells is planned, then OK.

I showed you that this is not the case and that the spells are strong. Cast Punish, then Divine. The damage will increase noticeably compared to simply casting 2 Punishes, as the second one won't be very effective...

The point is that if I have Punish or Haste in the guild, I will always choose Wrath, because these spells are many times more useful in mass quantities. In terms of usefulness, Expert Haste can be placed on the 3rd level next to Punish. Moreover, both spells are combat spells, unlike Blessing, where Removal is situational.

Added 1 minute ago

In what way?

With the DefaultStats file.
0.05

Added 2 minutes ago

You yourself said that WGE is not involved, but now it is...

In the case of this specific example, it is involved. It was just more convenient for me to create an example that could later be translated into a working one with certain changes.

And I wrote that I am not imposing this example (it's just an example).

The point is, if I have a punishing or haste spell in my guild, I'll always choose Wrath because these spells are much more useful in large numbers. In terms of usefulness, an expert haste spell can be placed on level 3 alongside a punishing spell. Moreover, both spells are combat spells, unlike Blessing, where Removal is situational.

And the spell levels are different: divine power and punishing. Divine power is learned without knowledge of light. Haste is heavily countered.

0.05

And where is the luck dependency here? Or is it just a static value of N%? But then how does it differ from regular reflection? In that it only works with positive luck? That means it's useless. It needs to be set to zero and given some kind of effect with a script.

And the spell levels are different: divine power and righteous wrath. Divine power is learned without knowledge of light.

But what difference does it make? We're not comparing spells right now, but the strength of the perks.
Bestow Grace enhances level 1 spells + situational Dispel.
Righteous Fury enhances level 3 spells + a spell similar to level 3 (haste). +40% to initiative is clearly not worse than +12 to attack. I don't even understand what haste and slow do at level 1 (especially slow).

Haste is easily countered.

The others are also easily countered, except for Stone Skin.

And where is the luck dependency here? Or is it just a static N%? But then how does it differ from regular reflection? In that it only works with positive luck? That means it's useless. It needs to be set to zero and given some kind of effect via script.

There is no luck dependency. Just additional reflection with a customizable percentage. Although I haven't tested the perk, i.e., it's unclear whether it reduces magical damage (magic resistance) or deflects magic. If it's the former, then this perk belongs in the Defense skill, not Luck.

Update: I looked at the skill tree, and it says: damage reduction. So, this is the 4th perk in the line of damage reduction from magic: reflection (15%), magic depletion (20%), undead protection from magic (20%), barbarian luck (customizable %).

What difference does it make? We're not comparing spells right now, but the power of perks.
Bestower of Blessing enhances a level 1 spell + situational Removal.
Righteous Fury enhances a level 3 spell + a spell similar to level 3 (Haste). +40% to initiative is clearly not worse than +12 to attack. I don't even understand what Haste and Slow do at level 1 (especially Slow).

What's the point of installing this? I fell for your nonsense without even noticing why it's needed. You've come up with something again, just to discuss it. What's the point? Just explain it.

There is no dependence on luck. Just additional reflection with a customizable %. Although I haven't tested the perk, i.e., it's unclear whether it reduces magical damage (magic resistance) or deflects magic. If it's the former, then this perk belongs in Defense, not Luck.

It reduces damage for positive luck, and that's it! That is, there is a dependence. This perk is completely unnecessary.

Update: I looked at the wheel, and it says: damage reduction. So, this is the 4th perk in the line of damage reduction from magic: reflection (15%), magic depletion (20%), undead protection from magic (20%), barbarian luck (customizable %).

No, this perk only works with positive luck, and it's completely useless because it no longer has any dependence on it. Another candidate for a scripted perk (though I've already used it in leveling up in another form: see above)

Why even install this? I fell for your nonsense without even realizing why it's needed. You've come up with something again, just to have something to discuss. For what purpose?

Watch your language.
The Blessing Giver provides less benefit, but if that doesn't bother you, then it's okay.

It reduces damage for positive luck, and that's it! This perk is completely useless.

It could be useful in defense.
Or somewhere else.

No, this perk only works with positive luck, and it's completely useless because it no longer has any dependence on it.

Where did you get the information that it doesn't work with zero or negative luck?

Watch your tongue.
The Blessing Giver provides less benefit, but if that doesn't bother you, then okay.

I wrote everything correctly. What does it give? Less benefit, and so what? Should it be discarded?

It would be useful in defense.
Or somewhere else.

It's not needed anywhere; there are enough perks that reduce spell damage in defense.

Where did you get the information that it doesn't work with zero or negative luck?

It's a well-known bug that the perk only works at 5%, regardless of the presence of luck (except for positive luck).

I wrote everything correctly. So what does it give? Less benefit, and what? Should it be discarded?

Motivate its selection with more appealing perks that come from it. That's all I'm talking about.
P.S. If you call everything heresy that you don't understand, then yes.

It's not needed anywhere; there are enough perks that reduce spell damage for defense.

I haven't seen your Defense yet. Its use could be instead of the weak 15% reduction, with a higher percentage.

It's a well-known bug that the perk only works at 5%, regardless of luck (except for positive luck).

I know about the 5%. But where did you get the information about the dependence on positive luck?

Motivate its acquisition with more appealing perks that come from it. That's all there is to it.

Regardless, it all depends on whether the hero or guild has spells.

I haven't seen your Defense yet.

It's easy to guess that there's still some left ;) And I had a similar defense option in mind when I was thinking about it ;)

I know about the 5%. But where did you get the information about the dependence on positive luck?

Antonag wrote about it somewhere, and it also makes sense based on the perk description, where the bug is only that the effect doesn't increase.

It’s easy to guess what’s left there. And I had a similar defense option in mind.

No, you should present it explicitly. I won’t make guesses, calculating your perks based on the other branches. And it would be good to put this in the topic header.

Antonag wrote somewhere, and it’s also logical based on the perk description, that the bug is only that the effect doesn’t increase.

But I doubt that the bug is in that, and not, for example, in a function that instead of luck always returns +1.

No, you should present it explicitly. I won't make guesses, calculating your perks based on the other branches. And it would be good to put this in the topic header.

And I also envisioned a similar defense option in the wheel.

I posted the wheel.
The exact version will be available tomorrow, as the notes are not here.

And I doubt that it's a bug, but rather a function that always returns +1 instead of luck.

Even in that case, the perk has no uniqueness and is very redundant (there will already be reflection and magic depletion - that's already a lot, and you're suggesting adding this too... and there will be a lot of connections)
We've been wasting a whole day on nonsense...

No, imagine it in a more explicit way.

As promised, today I'm posting a quality build for defense.

The first branch focuses on magic resistance, the second branch contains entirely passive skills that don't relate to magic resistance, and the third branch includes semi-active and active skills.

To summarize:
Regarding classes, as I said, they are only possible with a large number of heroes, which creates a dependency (link) with NHF. In my opinion, it's better to move classes to NHF entirely, since they don't affect skill progression changes, so discussing them here is inappropriate, which is what I've been trying to convey (if it's absolutely necessary, the discussion can be raised in the corresponding thread).
Regarding spell changes, that's a different topic, so that also creates a dependency. Starting a separate thread just for spells seems inappropriate.
None of this concerns this project.
Regarding the acquisition of more "desirable" abilities after less desirable ones (for example, the line: Blessing Giver - Seal of Darkness).
1) First of all, this is more of a spell problem than a perk problem (and spells are definitely not being touched for now);
2) Secondly, spell drops are a random process, and usually, we make do with what we have. In the event that a perk is needed after a master of a certain spell (when the spell is missing), we would take an unwanted ability, which is bad.
Let's look at an example.
What is countered most by darkness? Haste - by Slow, Smite - by Weakness, well, maybe Stone Skin by Disrupt. It turns out that Eternal Light after Righteous Wrath is more beneficial for the player to use, if it were located there. But in another case, we would get a very strong branch. A double-edged sword.
But in any case, Eternal Light must be made available for upgrading (if it's not available, a beautiful combo will be ruined), if not as the second, then as the third level. At this stage, we have Eternal Light after Master of Defense (Blessing Giver) at level 2, which allows us to upgrade both Wrath and Eternal Light and prevent Stone Skin, Haste, and Smite from being countered with some probability ;) Logically, the idea is sound.
Blessing is also countered by Weakness, but Weakness is weaker than Slow, Weakness, etc., and it's unlikely the opponent will cast it - they will cast a strong debuff instead. It turns out that Eternal Light after "Blessing Giver" is most beneficial ;)
Moreover, aesthetically "Eternal Light" protects against dark magic (i.e., "Gives protection") - which also fits very well ;)

Now let's deal with Seal of Darkness. Based on the above, it also makes more sense to give it after BG, but aesthetically this is incorrect, because in general, it won't protect, but only complicate the opponent's choice. That is, this ability can be anywhere.

Twilight. Dark and Light magic are native to Haven + it has little spellcasting (here, perhaps, there is Inferno, but Light is harder to get there, although, if you do get it....). It is logical to place the perk in racial abilities instead of Oversight (since the latter has already been removed). So most likely, it will go there.

Surprise Attack. Aesthetically (both in name and meaning), it is very accurately placed after Wrath (Analogy: 50% Initiative increase - Haste, "Attack" in the name - Smite). Now let's consider it in the game. The thought immediately arises: why is Teleport a Light spell and not a Summoning spell (since Summoning also includes "Astral" magic). But that's only half the trouble: if it were in Summoning, the ability would be hard to understand: it gives initiative, so it would look fine even in Logistics (like the devs have it), if not for the Light spell. Now consider how the spell depends on the strength of the Light school knowledge, and you might be surprised that it doesn't (o_O) (except that Expert can transport across city walls). Consequently, what is this ability doing in Light??? It turns out I just fell for the better aesthetics :(
Based on logical considerations, the ability must be moved outside of any magic school (aesthetically logical (if only partially) would be: Logistics, Leadership, and Attack).
Logistics. Essentially, it could be located after the speed aura. But increasing speed would make SA less valuable :(
Leadership. A triggered Battle Cry also shifts the unit, just like an enhanced Teleport. (It turns out that after teleporting, positive morale is automatically triggered). Cool.
Attack. "Surprise Attack" - the name itself favors putting the ability in Attack, but essentially a lot can be lost. And aesthetics are more important in meaning than in name, so even Light magic would be preferable here.
That leaves Leadership. Not many abilities are left in Leadership, although there used to be just as many :) Aesthetically it's logical to give SA after Inspiration, but again, SA and I are alternatives to each other, as they involve the hero and should not be acquired sequentially. Therefore, with the appearance of a new ability in that "school", the progression will need to be restructured ;)

Banishment. Aesthetically, Banishment is the essence of an Inquisitor, Wrath, and the fight against demons. It depends on mastery of Summoning magic (the formula is likely hardcoded in the "exe"), but it will increase by a maximum of 30% if fully upgraded. Why the devs put it in Summoning is unclear (only perhaps for a mage or Necromancer, more likely the former, but Sorceresses already have magic coming out of their ears). In Light, Banishment can be used at a minimum of 75%, which is also quite good. (Checked the coefficients - the dependency on Summoning can be removed, but it won't be possible to give a dependency to another school). But essentially, what benefit does it bring to Light?
No benefit at all :( It could be left only in an artifact, replacing the ability in the wheel with something else (I haven't noticed this perk being popular, so it wouldn't be a pity to lose it). Or try to make it an additional effect for Light magic, or move it somewhere else.

In total, there are only 2 second-level abilities for Light. Not much. Nothing should be given after Wrath (if 2 are left) because it is strong enough on its own. Seal of Light 100% goes after BG. That leaves Seal of Darkness, which essentially doesn't matter where it is. There is also Guardian Angel. This one can be placed (and renamed to "Last Hero" :) ) after DB for all races except Orc (fits aesthetically). However, there the angel flies onto the battlefield and waves its arms, so this still needs thought

Quite reasonable arguments. Regarding the Warlock – in Heroes of Might and Magic V, the teleport is located in the Summoning skill (it also works on enemies there), so if such a transfer ability is being considered, it can be added to the Summoning school (and the Celestial Shield can be returned to the Light school – that would be a perk). There is already a mechanic for knockback based on a scale in the Summoning skill (Wasps – they are natural knockback units, not just units with knockback as a secondary effect), although it works in the opposite direction and is also a secondary effect. Exile is most logically placed in the Anti-Summoning skill.