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Offline ZveroBoy
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#1
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Happy New Year 2007 to all you monsters!

Attention!
I invite everyone who wishes to take part in an OFF-LINE TOURNAMENT
For the game «Heroes of Might and Magic IV» played on the map «Deep forest»
The tournament starts today (01.01.2007). The goal of the tournament is to capture all cities.

Tournament Rules:
1. The game is played ONLY on the version Heroes of Might and Magic IV: Winds of War.
2. Using cheat codes during the final Walkthrough of a save is prohibited.
3. Restarting or any other modification of the starting save is prohibited.
4. Entering a boat without losing a turn (using the spacebar) is prohibited.
5. The use of "completely Dead external dwellings" on the battlefield is prohibited.
(I will explain in more detail what this is for those who don't understand: I consider a "Dead external dwelling" to be
a COMPLETELY closed area, for example with rocks or logs, which contains
a small island for a unit, such as a fairy, harpy, vampire, etc.
That is, a place that cannot be entered by land by a unit of the smallest
size (3x3) and can only be accessed by air—a kind of natural fortress. Having such an external dwelling, one fairy could beat a hundred Black Dragons and win an impossible battle; to avoid such situations, I prohibit "Dead external dwellings" in this tournament.)
6. EVERYTHING ELSE IS PERMITTED.
(Full use of grave technologies including raising the corpse of a hero
using the spacebar, leveling up the corpse on crystals, wheels, and establishments,
acceleration, splitting armies for transport through gaps, an unlimited number
of heroes on the map beyond eight, and so on.

A "not dead external dwelling," or more accurately a semi-open one, is permitted in this tournament.
By a semi-open external dwelling, I mean a place where a unit or Hero can
enter on foot, while the attacking monsters, regardless of their size, must be able to reach the Hero or unit to strike them (the point of a semi-open external dwelling is to limit the number of monsters attacking you simultaneously). Besides, it's not right for a Hero to hide in an external dwelling while the enemies are wasting themselves on whatever. Our Heroes fight with open visors.

In this tournament, results are evaluated with priority given to time—i.e., the faster, the better. Then come points and gold.

Official end date of the tournament 25.02.2007. UPDATED
Winning saves can, of course, be sent earlier—that is, at any time—but
no later than the official deadline.

Requirements for the final save:
1. The final save should require only one action from me for victory (pressing the auto-battle button if victory in the game is achieved by winning a battle, or pressing the end turn button if victory is achieved by passing the turn).
2. The save should be named with your nickname and the number of days spent on the
Walkthrough, for example: (ZveroBoy18, where ZveroBoy is the player's nick and 18 is the number of days); it is also highly desirable to compress the save with WinRar before sending.
3. I ask all participants to make and keep saves at the end of each game day and after every ambiguous battle (1 hero against 100 angels, 1 fairy against 300 monsters ...)

Please send winning saves here: ZvereBoy@mail.ru

The final list of results will be posted on March 3-4. Also,
the winner will be required to provide a day-by-day description of the Walkthrough.
It would also be good if the monsters who decide to take part in
this tournament notified me by email in a couple of lines or left
a message in this forum thread, so that I can publish an approximate
list of participants to further fire the imagination of our esteemed audience.


Well, that's all; download the starting save and good luck in the game!



If you have any questions, write them here, I will answer.

Answering questions:
Generally, "external dwellings" are essentially an unfixed game bug and introduce a severe imbalance into the combat system, which is why I want to hold the tournament in more natural combat conditions—let's see what comes of it. Using a forbidden external dwelling, for example, one could easily wipe out the Nomads hanging around the "Mercenary Camp" on the first day by hiring a Necromancer with the Poison spell, and at the same time take out Tigers and wolves in the "Wooded Glen" by poisoning the monsters and hiding in an external dwelling that neither nomads nor tigers can enter because they are larger than the Hero. So try dealing with the monsters face to face without an external dwelling; there is a lot of pleasure in that too.

I also forgot to announce immediately that it IS PERMITTED to discuss the possibilities of completing this save in real time—that is, right during the tournament you can express your thoughts on strategy and tactics development in this forum thread. For example, if someone wishes, they can describe their actions for, say, the first game day (Something like: Sandro leveled up to 6, Level 2 Death Magic studied, Leprechauns and Fairies wiped out, Golden Armor obtained,
18 gold coins accumulated, and so on). Why is all this needed?
Usually, on Hero resources, discussing current tournaments is forbidden. To me,
it always seemed that playing alone is a bit boring, which is why I want
participants to exchange their thoughts; this is useful for sparking interest in
Heroes-4 among beginning players and, accordingly, for attracting them to the game.


















Final table of current player results for the Deep_forest Tournament as of 06.03.2007
№ NICK DAYS POINTS GOLD RANK IN TOURNAMENT
0 ZveroBoy 10 1717 59746 Tournament Host
1 IronAxe 13 1735 105055 1
2 Psixxx 27 - - 2
3 OptiMAL 53 1332 57694 3
4 Sage 153 - - 4
5 Спай - - - -
6 AlexeyPank - - - -
7 AndersonAD - - - -
8 Alex R - - - -
9 CJLaB9IHUH - - - -
10 - - - - -
11 - - - - -
12 - - - - -
Congratulations to the Tournament winner IronAxe on the VICTORY!!!
Attention all players! As of 26.02.2007, I am granting this Tournament indefinite status, which means that if a player is found who can improve the winner's result, their name will be entered into this table and the result will be updated. Saves can be sent at any time to my email address. Thanks to everyone who spent their time playing in my tournament. Sincerely, ZveroBoy.
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Offline IronAxe
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#31
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Spay;59938
Yeah, it didn't go very well: I defeated the leprechauns, of course, I took the dungeon on the 2nd day, and on the same day, for some reason, I attacked skeletons with dogs (1 squad), and there are 2 more, but I'm too lazy... although, I understand that skeletons won't hinder defeating the nomads. Building vampires requires too much money, and there's much less lying around in the dungeon and on the ground.
Hey Spay, what dogs did you use to defeat the skeletons? :) As far as I know, you raise magic first. Or am I missing something?

Added 6 minutes later
Spay;60225
Are there no other guards in the Orcish ruins besides skeletons? I defeated one squad of skeletons with 3 dogs, but I got tired after that.
Damn, where did you get dogs on the second day? And of course, orcs guard the Orcish ruins. And there are medusas on the way, I think. So, you think there won't be anyone else? I think vampires are simply necessary, if not for the first hero, then definitely for the second. And here's the question: should you accumulate money with the first hero or try to rush with him to the port with what you have, and try to earn money with the second hero? The second one still needs to be leveled up. It seems easier and faster to earn money with the first one - take those ruins. If the first one doesn't take them, will the second one even be able to? Or am I wrong?
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Offline Спай
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#32
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IronAxe;60246
Hey Spy, what kind of creatures did you use to defeat the skeletons? :) As far as I know, you usually focus on magic in the early game. Or am I missing something?

Added 6 minutes later
 Damn, where did you get those creatures on day two? And of course, Orcish ruins are guarded by Orcs. And there are Medusas along the way, I think. So, you think there won't be anyone else? I think Vampires are essential, if not for the first hero, then definitely for the second. And here's the question: should the first hero focus on accumulating resources, or try to rush to the port with what he has, while the second hero tries to earn money? The second hero also needs to be leveled up. It seems easier and faster for the first hero to earn money – he can take the ruins. If the first hero doesn't take them, the second one definitely won't, right?


I had two options: the first was to build Vampires right away, and the second was to focus on magic. In the first option, a Tower of level 2 is built on the first day, and Dogs are built on the second day. And on the second day, the Dogs attack the skeletons.
And the second hero needs money, plus he's weak, and he can't earn much.
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#33
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Hello to all participants of the Tournament!

I'm glad that a discussion about different strategies has started.
I've read everything, and here's my suggestion for the first day of the game.

The optimal strategy for dealing with the Leprechauns is, of course, to attack them with one Sandro, casting Sadness, then switching to defense and enduring one hit from the Leprechauns. After that, naturally, poison them with a counterattack, and then run around the battlefield until they die. And after that, I would advise you to befriend the Fairies. To do this, I exchanged almost all my resources for gold and bought a second hero, a Mage, and gave him the Charm skill. After that, Sandro eliminates the Fairies in two turns, reducing their number to 33. Then, the Mage goes to them and befriends 5 Fairies. After that, the Fairies defeat all the Skeleton gatherings and the gathering of Squires and Peasants. The Mage activates the Sawmill and reaches the Golden Drake, escaping with it to the Fortress. Sandro's corpse is also taken to the Fortress, where everyone happily celebrates Christmas, sings songs, and goes to sleep.

I also tried using Diplomacy instead of Charm, but it doesn't seem to work. Does anyone know what its special ability is?

Good luck to everyone in the Tournament! I have a small time constraint today, so I will answer all questions later!
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Offline IronAxe
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#34
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ZveroBoy;60264
Hello to all participants of the Tournament!
I'm glad that a discussion about different strategies has started.
I've read everything, and I'll share my strategy for the first day.
Not bad, with a touch of charm :) But what's left of your resources? How about raising magic to level 4, using Vampire skills, and building Vampires, or even an Armory – will you have enough resources? Or will you use Fae instead of Vampires later on?
I still like Spay's strategy of taking out the skeletons with dogs. But I'm going to replay the game from the beginning. If you don't aim to get the Sawmill, Altar, and Armor on the first day, but only the Armor, you can accumulate a lot of mana on the Leprechauns by sacrificing a reasonable number of Imps. This needs to be calculated.

Added 11 minutes later
Spay;60254
I had two strategies: the first was to build Vampires right away, and the second was to focus on magic. In the first strategy, on the first day, you build a Tower to level 2, and on the second day, you build dogs. And on the second day, you use the dogs to attack the skeletons.
And you need money for the second hero, besides, he's weak, and he can't earn much.
ZveroBoy earned Fae for himself :) And Fae are pretty good in the fourth game. But what will he do later without resources? Okay, let him test this strategy. I still want to use Vampires
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Offline Спай
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#35
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Regarding fairies and charm, I also thought about it, but I don't see many advantages in that: hiding places are still forbidden, and therefore there isn't much point in using fairies...
You can also defeat skeletons with dogs. It's true, it's difficult, you need a good location, but it's possible. And you need a lot of gold to buy an Order unit, which slows down the construction of vampires...
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Offline IronAxe
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#36
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Spike;60275
I was also thinking about fairies and charm, but I don't see any major advantages in that: hiding places are still forbidden, and there's not much point in using fairies...
You can also kill skeletons with dogs. It's true, it's difficult, you need a good map, but it's possible. And you need a lot of gold to buy an order unit, which slows down the construction of vampires...

And why did you use three dogs? And what if I guess this melody with just one note? Zверобой used five fairies to defeat skeletons; a dog's attack is probably not much less - it has three heads :)
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#37
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IronAxe;60345
Why did you attack with three dogs? And what if I guess this melody from a single note? Zверобой defeated skeletons with five fairies; the attack power of a dog is probably only slightly less – it has three heads after all :)


Do you know how much of a hassle it was to defeat skeletons with a movement range of 6 using dogs with a movement range of 7? We don't want to harm our own health, do we? :)
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Offline IronAxe
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#38
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Spay;60358
And do you know what a pain it was to use dogs with a movement speed of 7 to weed out skeletons with a movement speed of 6? We aren't enemies of our own health :)
The work is a bit routine, but both maps were sorted out in no time. You just run a few laps; the main thing is that there's some sand on the field, as skeletons love to slow down on it—1-2 laps and one skeleton is dead. The Cerberus hit comes out to about 6. After that, the skeletons don't get morale. That's why I ran almost on autopilot, rarely losing focus. If you've plotted a successful running route on the map once, there's nothing left to do—just blindly run and at a certain time when you see the skeletons won't reach you, press wait and that's it, then hit them and repeat. There are saves before the attack :) Skeletons DO NOT ALWAYS move the full 6 cells.
So you spent an extra 380 coins. And why didn't you buy a fourth dog?
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Offline ZveroBoy
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IronAxe;60267
Not bad with the charm :) But what's left of the resources? How about increasing magic to level 4, with the Vampire skill and building Vampires, or even an Armory – will there be enough resources? Or will you use Fairies instead of Vampires later?
Added 11 minutes ago
[/U]
Look, Beastmaster earned himself some Fairies :) And Fairies are pretty good in the fourth game. But what will he do next without resources? Okay, let him test this option. I still want Vampires :)

Hello everyone!

I certainly won't use Fairies instead of Vampires; I want to use both whenever possible. However, the development path with Fairies seems more appealing to me:smile01:

1. First, with Fairies, the hero's movement range increases to 29 steps, while with Demons, it's only 28.
2. Second, even with just one Fairy, it's much easier to defeat Skeletons than with three Cerberi; Fairies don't have to awkwardly run away from Skeletons.
3. Third, Fairies move far and faster than others, so they'll reach different necessary locations, such as the Graveyard. Moreover, they can defeat many enemies along the way, unlike Cerberi.
I agree that to recruit them, I had to spend almost all my resources on the first day. Specifically, 1000 gold went to the Tower of Darkness 2, and 2000 gold went to buying the Mage Solmyr (who, by the way, initially knows the spell "Mirage" and will later learn "Slow" in the Jaro, which I think will be very useful, and, let's face it, you always need a hero to capture enemy fortresses, even if it's just a Vampire corpse that you can carry around without any problems). So, sooner or later, everyone will buy a second hero.:smile08:

At the end of the first day, I have 4 crystals, 3 sulfur, 8 ore, and no gold left.
Now about Vampires, I'll have them around the middle of the third day, but they won't be quite real Vampires yet. I'll make them slightly stronger by turning Skeletons into them, giving them the Vampire Strike skill and the Aura of Fear. I'll use them to defeat Medusas; Medusas don't like to shoot at Skeletons, as they have high resistance to arrows. Moreover, Medusas in groups of more than 8 can almost always cast "Petrify" on anyone except the undead, and Skeletons are just that. In principle, Vampires can also be made from Demons, but Medusas shoot them down quite well.
On the second day, of course, I need 1000 gold for the Tower of Darkness 3. That's why I have to clear the Tiger's Glade; there's enough money to build the Tower of Darkness 4 on the third day without any problems. And at the end of the third day, I'll naturally own the treasures of the Orcs (4500 gold) and all the resources lying around the Nomads, plus a chest with 2000 gold and some other loot. So, there should definitely be enough money for a Mausoleum, so, ideally, by the beginning of the 5th day, I should definitely have two real Vampires hanging around. They cost 1100 gold each, so you can see how much money is needed to acquire such an escort.:eek:

I'll definitely have to build a Kennels, but in my version, only on the fourth day.
At the end of the second day, by the way, I have 869 gold, 18 wood, 2 crystals, and 2 sulfur left, so the economy seems to be doing well.
Today, I'll try to work through the third day specifically and test my calculations.

Good luck to everyone in the game!:smile01:
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Offline IronAxe
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#40
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ZveroBoy;60513
Hello everyone!
I certainly won't use Fairies instead of Vampires; I want to use both whenever possible, but the Fairy development path seems more appealing to me:smile01:
Okay, let me explain why the Fairy path is the most appealing, but we need to complete the first day first. If I'm not mistaken, you can defeat the Skeletons and Squires with just ONE Fairy. And then comes a difficult and tedious battle with four Fairies against the Nomads – without a hiding spot! Relying on morale! Map selection is key. I don't want to make this battle too difficult. I suggest you try it. If you succeed, on the second day, you'll have access not only to a clearing but also to a treasure chest with money and other small things. Plus, you can defeat the Leprechauns with Fairies, possibly together with a Mage hero, for experience. And there's some money lying around there too. Meanwhile, the Death hero is heading towards the Orc ruins. In your version, I think the crystals will slow down the construction of Vampires.

Battlefield:
-------------------------
.........N..............!
.........................!
....................PP!
...................P.F!
..................P.....!
.................P......!
................P.......!
...............P........!
..........................!
..........................!
-------------------------

P - Obstacle
F - 4 Fairies
N - 42 Nomads

You understand the essence of the battle :) But you have to play it fairly and tell everyone how much time you actually spent selecting the battlefield and defeating the 42 Nomads with four Fairies.

I remember one duel :) where I had to defeat approximately 27 Nomads with three Fairies from a confined hiding spot :) I spent 3-4 days on it, of course not around the clock, but all my free time :)

---
At the end of the first day, I had 4 crystals, 3 sulfur, 8 ore, and no gold.
---
At the end of the second day, I had 869 gold, 18 wood, 2 crystals, and 2 sulfur, so the economy seems to be doing well.
---

You'll spend the money on Skeletons, and the minerals will decrease. So, it's unclear where the economy is going. Just like in our country :)
ZveroBoy;60513

Now about the Vampires, I'll have them in the middle of the third day, but they won't be real Vampires yet; they'll be slightly stronger because I'll make them from Skeletons, giving them Vampire Strike and Aura of Fear. I'll use them to defeat the Medusas; Medusas don't like to shoot at Skeletons because they have high resistance to ranged attacks...

You can defeat Medusas with the Death hero, having only magic of levels 1-2, armor, and preferably taking an altar to increase defense or taking defense instead of Death magic on the clearing. But it's still better to take Death magic and get defense at the altar. Hero + 54 Skeletons + 5 Imps (one at a time). You'll need about 50-60 mana for this many Skeletons. If there are more Skeletons, you'll need less magic. At the beginning of the first day, my hero personally gained 100 mana on the Leprechauns – I had to spend the Imps. On the first day, the hero managed to take armor as his last action and escape :) On the second turn, I defeated the Fairies, took the sawmill, took the clearing, built Cerberuses, and the Cerberus defeated the Skeletons. The hero heads towards the Orc ruins without returning to the Castle, but he doesn't even reach the first graveyard. The plan is to defeat the Orcs in such a way as to lure out their arrows and poison them. The hero should die, but at least one Imp should survive. Take the graveyard to the Castle for magic and mana. But this will be on the fourth day, and the hero will still have some actions left when the graveyard is revived in the Castle.
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Offline ZveroBoy
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#41
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IronAxe;60766
And then, a difficult and tedious battle with four fairies against the Nomads :) without any hiding spots! relying on morale! and map selection. I don't want to make this battle too complicated. I suggest you try it.

By the end of the first day, I have 4 crystals, 3 sulfur, 8 ore, and not a single gold coin left.
---
By the end of the second day, I have 869 gold, 18 wood, 2 crystals, and 2 sulfur, so the economy seems to be doing okay.
---

You'll spend your money on skeletons, and the minerals will decrease. So, it's unclear where the economy is heading. Just like in our country :)

You can defeat Medusas with a Death Knight, having only 1-2 levels of magic, and armor. It's best to take an altar to increase defense or, on a clearing, choose defense instead of death magic, but it's still better to take death magic and defense at the altar. Hero + 54 skeletons + 5 Imps (one at a time). You'll need about 50-60 mana for this many skeletons. If there are more skeletons, you'll need less magic.

No, IronAxe, I don't want to conduct such a battle; it's too cumbersome to find a suitable location, and I'm not even sure if it's possible to create such an obstacle. (If someone manages to do this, I will demand that the player provide a save file before the fairies attack the Nomads, from which this obstacle is generated, and also a couple more save files during such a battle, as the battle is clearly not straightforward). Therefore, I will defeat the Nomads on the third day using Vampiric Strike and Aura of Fear, cast on Sandro, who will hide in a small corner so that only one of the four Nomad squads can approach him at a time. Six Imps will also help at the beginning of the battle while Sandro runs to the corner and casts spells; the Imps will go into melee.

Financially, things aren't so bad; by the beginning of the fifth day, everything is being built, and I have enough money for one Vampire. It's possible that by the end of the day, I'll be able to buy a second one, but I haven't finished playing yet.

Sandro defeats the Medusas at the Orcish Treasury with approximately 80 skeletons. At the end of the battle, Sandro deliberately dies on the Medusas, and the skeletons with Vampiric Strike finish them off. The Imps carry Sandro's corpse to Jayrod after the battle, and then to the Treasury.
Solmyr (a level 1 Order mage, but in golden armor with only one spell, Blur) defeats the Orcs. The skeletons stand in one group in the back, and Solmyr stands in front, protecting them by casting Blur on himself. Two Orc squads throw their axes at him, but he withstands all the blows because he's in defense. Then, the Orcs attack the skeletons.
The skeletons wait. Solmyr removes the effect of Blur from one Orc squad and dies. The skeletons attack these Orcs twice, almost destroying the entire squad, and then slowly finish off the second group. At the end of the battle, I have 43 skeletons and almost 6000 gold.
Solmyr's corpse is also carried to Jayrod, and the skeletons go to the second squad of Medusas, which guards the road to the Shipyard, but, of course, they don't engage with them and wait for Sandro the next day
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Offline IronAxe
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#42
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ZveroBoy;60921
No, Iron, I don't want to conduct a battle like that; it's too much of a hassle to find such a field, and in general, I'm not sure if it's even possible to actually find such an obstacle

I have found fields like that. What about summons regarding the map edge? Or if this battle can still be completed, then it doesn't matter. Will it still not change the result of the Walkthrough? I am asking specifically about your version of the Walkthrough.
Because in mine without fairies, I cannot wipe out the nomads on the first day. This same battle can be conducted with a single vampire. If I have to do this, there will definitely be a save before the attack. As for the others—I don't give a damn. Ask and you shall receive :)
And maybe I'll have time to replay it with fairies, since you don't want to check the limit variant.
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#43
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IronAxe;60942
I was choosing such maps. But what about the limits regarding the map's boundaries? Or if this battle can still be completed, then it doesn't matter. It still won't change the result of the playthrough, right? I'm asking specifically about your playthrough.
Because in my version, without fairies, I can't defeat the nomads on the first day. This battle can be completed with just one vampire. If I have to do it, I'll definitely save before the attack. As for the rest, I don't care. Ask, and you'll get an answer :)
Or maybe I'll have time to replay with fairies, since you don't want to test the extreme version.

Try it, but I think you still won't have enough gold until
you defeat the Medusas, as there's not much left after buying
the second hero with the charm ability, although I'm not entirely sure...:)
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#44
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ZveroBoy;60945
Try it, but I think you still won't have enough gold until you defeat the Medusas; there's not much left after buying the second Hero with the Charm skill, although I'm not entirely sure... :)
Pickaxes :) But I'll think about this issue some more. Do you have enough money, or rather, crystals, on day 5 to build the Vampires?
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#45
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IronAxe;60961
Demons :) But I'll think about this question some more :) Will you have enough money on the 5th day to build vampires?

Even after the demon captures a group near the Satyrs, you still have to exchange crystals on the market, but by the middle of the 5th day, you have just enough money to buy one vampire. In principle, if you track every coin from the first day, you might have enough for a second vampire. I spent a lot of gold on buying skeletons and imps; I could probably have managed with fewer.
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