Siege engine — Stronghold

Vaishan))

13 years ago

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In single-player games with a large number of cities (>=6), I used the "siege machine" tactic for the Orcs. It works like this: we take Goshak (as a specialist for the fastest creatures of the Stronghold) or Tilshek (as the initial machine operator), siege machines - catapult - support - sulfur rain, darkness - blight, cursed ground - weakening strike, leadership - gathering - speed aura - battle frenzy, attack - BB - retribution (it's essential for Orcs to have more than 10:D) - stunning strike; we take a ring of kinship with machines (there are usually 3-4 on the maps). Usually, there is a mentor on the maps, and everything can be easily adjusted. But question #1: will this tactic work in a game against a human player? And question #2: what is better to take as the 5th skill? What will be more effective? I'm considering education, logistics, and war cries.

Ment

13 years ago

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But the main question is: will this tactic work in a game against a human player?

I don't think so. The catapult isn't particularly effective against a human player because killing them in their castle is always problematic and only possible with a significant advantage; otherwise, you need to try to catch them in the field. However, the ballista is a good skill for siege weapons, and some people also like the tent (although I haven't used it much). But if the game is relatively long, I would prefer education. And logistics are also essential for your development. If the opponent isn't playing a faction that potentially allows for the appearance of Dark creatures, it's better to take defense instead of anti-magic (or maybe it's better in any case, I don't know).
Also, I'm not at all sure that you'll encounter a Mentor in a game against a human player.

In reply to Ment

Vaishan))

13 years ago

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Ment

I also have very little confidence that you will encounter a mentor in a game against a human player.

I very rarely play standard maps, where a mentor appears only once in a million tries :) and I play on Hamachi, EasyVPN, and similar platforms, and in maps like Absolute Power (10 cities), where each castle has a mentor.

Ment

because killing him in the castle is problematic in any case and only possible with a significant advantage, otherwise you need to try to catch him in the field.

But what about super-fast demons? They will run out on horses with Cerberuses/Hellhounds faster than our Executioners/Warlords? And thank you for the 5th skill; I chose Logistics and Death Stride (+4, I didn't notice it right away because I was actually aiming for Education with Wrath of Fire).

Ment

13 years ago

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what about the super-fast demons? They can rush out on horses and with Cerberuses/hounds before our executioners/chieftains do.

I think they will call for reinforcements and place them at the gates and walls, while only the wyverns will fly over for the Orcs. I don't know, of course, how your opponent will do it.

Vaishan))

13 years ago

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You didn't understand me :) They are super-fast "in the open field," and it's much more advantageous for the horses and dogs to take out the leaders/executioners than to open the gates for the same old, basic archer block. And about the wyverns: IMHO, they are very weak (Shak'Karuk is, of course, an exception) and die quickly, so it's more effective to use 60 (no more!) leaders and the rest executioners in a siege. The leaders drive the free cyclops, they destroy the towers and the horses and dogs (which, fortunately, tend to stand right under the walls :D), and the executioners run in and chop them to pieces... if, of course, the demon doesn't go into darkness :confused: because then berserk + mind control and you're left with no army, so you might as well use a dwarven set and a darkness plug.

In reply to Vaishan))

KillAndAction

13 years ago

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I only use wagons for the tent or, at worst, for the OS.
But for Orcs, it's beneficial for several heroes to level up the Goblin Support skill, where the catapult skill comes in handy...
1000 gold + goblins is a powerful combination!

Vaishan))

13 years ago

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Depending on which ones—trappers are only useful at the beginning due to their survivability, but later it's the Sorceress, because to block any spell of a maximally upgraded hero (which is Dragon Utopia), you "only" need 1550 Sorceress
this is an example for level 40 (which is unattainable — 1.241 million and some change) for a level 5 spell, but usually heroes are level 25, so you only need 1175 :)

Stiletto

13 years ago

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Siege engines are a heavy burden, especially for a prolonged game as an Orc, because instead of them, the Orc could have a much more versatile and useful perk. The exception is if you are determined to go for a Castle-focused build.

Noom

13 years ago

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The Horde's Fury depends on the number of goblins – so a stack of 1000 goblins allows you to hit the opponent hard with spells. Goblins with the "Goblin Aid" perk are very useful if the game drags on.
However, I play in tournaments with the TE mod and on maps generated by IRMG.

Саня Изи

13 years ago

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Read the manual first. No amount of goblins will give you one hundred percent spell blocking.

In reply to Саня Изи

antonag07

13 years ago

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Lord Mortulus

Read the manual first. No amount of goblins will give you a 100% chance to block a spell.

Well, Vaishan definitely read the manual - at least even this one - the formula for calculating spell blocking is simplified there (the simplification was done specifically - for players who don't have a calculator handy), but it has been tested in practice and does not contradict the "official" one (which is in the game manual):rolleyes:

In reply to antonag07

Vaishan))

13 years ago

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antonag07

Well, Vaishan definitely read the manual - at least even this one.

He read it, he read it... it's a good thing:smile20:

Саня Изи

13 years ago

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Here is a quote from the manual, especially for you, Antonag:

Example 1: If N(g) exceeds N(t) by 1 (+1), the chances become 30%/25%/25%/20%. With a difference of +4, the chances become 45%/25%/25%/5%. A difference of 5 cannot further reduce the probability of the last outcome and reduces the probability of the second to last: 50%/25%/20%/5%.

That is, regardless of the number of goblins, there is still a chance of failure. In addition, there is a doubling of mana and a reduction in spell power, so there is no 100% chance of spells failing, no matter how many goblins there are.

And this has been tested in practice. For example, there was a time when the opponent had about 3200 goblins, and Darkness still worked. Play more.

In reply to Саня Изи

TerMinator

13 years ago

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Lord Mortulus

Here's a quote from the manual, especially for you, Antonag:
So, regardless of the number of goblins, we always have a chance of failure. Furthermore, there's a mana doubling and spell power reduction, so there's no 100% chance of spell disruption, no matter how many goblins there are! And this has been verified in practice. For example, there was a time when the opponent had about 3200 goblins, and Darkness still took effect. Play more.

I confirm that there's always a 5% chance, even with 10,000 goblin shamans, and it really works in practice. There have also been cases where goblins were controlled on the first try with a number of around 3000. Also, the manual states that if 2 groups of goblins, regardless of the number, disrupt the magic of a single target, there's supposedly a 100% chance of deflection, but that's not true; there's still a chance! Also, luck can be at 1, and you keep trying, or it can be +5, and you think you haven't leveled up! :)

In reply to Stiletto

atlant108

9 years ago

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Stiletto

Siege engines are a heavy burden, especially for a prolonged game as Orc, because instead of them, the Orc could have a much more versatile and useful perk. The exception is if you are determined to go for a Castle-focused build.

I fully support this 100%.

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