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Posts from HoMM3 HD is a mod (add-on) for the game Heroes of Might and Magic 3.Auto-translated
Chingis, either you didn't delete the _HD3_Data folder from the game directory before installation, or the selected DataPack does not match the game version (if the game is the Complete Collection from Buka, 'Complete Collection' must be selected)
***
I hope Yourdestiny won't mind me quoting his private messages. I just want to get the opinion of several players.
why 2.98f and not 3 ... with the three (HD 3.xx), concepts arrived such as HoMM 3 HD does not affect the original gameplay of the game**. that's exactly it, those ** make you immediately wary. I agree that all this is optional and people can choose what is convenient for them. But it definitely creates distrust. For example, BT can be configured almost like SOD, but even with minor gameplay changes, BT is doomed to be popular among a very narrow circle of Russian admirers who hold small private matches. The prospects of HD, it seems to me, are much wider. To become an official and permitted mod on all resources in all countries. Successfully stepping across the world, I think HD will stop because of these "**". The possibility of even optional gameplay changes leads to additional discussion: how we'll play, how we'll configure it, what we'll put here, where we'll uncheck the box, etc. 2.98 does not generate such questions. Bug fixes can also be viewed differently by different countries. For example, in Poland, people decided it's a bug when Naga banks give sulfur instead of gems, and they fix it with text editors. In the Russian community, this is not considered a bug. Therefore, even the good intentions of correcting bugs that CHANGE GAMEPLAY** will lead to slowing down the distribution of HD 3.x Moreover, the huge plusses of HD — passworded saves — are only in tournament mode, which mandates other changes. I am sure that if HD returns to the original concept and leaves the gameplay alone, but is enriched with treasures such as, for example, passworded saves, HD will live for a very long time and happily on a global scale.
First, 2.98 also fixes game bugs optionally (which changes the gameplay), it's just that in 3.0 the list of fixable bugs is slightly wider Second, in 2.98 the auto-fix for splitting, graying out, etc., is tied to this very gameplay bug fix. In 3.0, it is detached. Third, in 2.98 there could be a situation: you are playing with fixed bugs, and the opponent is not. In 3.0 this cannot happen: either everyone has them fixed, or no one does.
well then, how is 2.98 better than 3? If I remove the ** from the description and rename the ImprovedGameplay option to FixBugs, will it be better?
Fourth, HD was oriented toward fixing original bugs from the very beginning. It turns out that the absence of certain bugs changes the gameplay (game rules) to a greater or lesser extent; in some cases, it is not obvious at all, for example. Fifth, detailed information on all gameplay fixes: Selling artifacts for a non-standard price - it's obvious to everyone that it shouldn't be this way, it wasn't intended by the developers - the use of this bug is prohibited in tournament rules Not Me - it's obvious to everyone that it shouldn't be this way, it wasn't intended by the developers - in fact, a decent number of players cannot imagine the game without peeking. I might allow reading certain info about the opponent, but not in the form of a bug that can even lead to a crash (city info) - gives an unfair advantage to an experienced player over a novice who doesn't know about the bug. leaving a hero without an army during hero exchange it's obvious that it shouldn't be this way, otherwise one could leave them without an army everywhere in the game. - the use of this bug is prohibited in tournament rules placing a Clone on the stack itself, with subsequent glitches and crashes - it's very "fun" to ruin a battle or get a crash because you don't know the specifics of how the spell works in the original. Infinite AI turn also very "fun" to play for several game months, only to realize that continuing the game is impossible. Refugee camp bug I don't know what to say... well, VoG, BT, and Phoenix mod basically result from this fix Incorrect damage from shooting towers here it may be, and it can be compared to the gems in the naga bank. doubled damage against petrified targets or those under an air shield, discrepancy with the stated (right-click info) attack, ignoring the defense parameter, and ignoring the owner's archery skill — can be considered a feature
Even if the game-fix is cut from HD, I will still release an HD-compatible mod or plugin for HD. And how would downloading and installing it be fundamentally different from activating an option?
Moreover, the huge plusses of HD — passworded saves — are only in tournament mode, which mandates other changes.
which changes, mandated by the TournamentExtensions option, do you dislike?
To baratorch:
With all due respect, it's clear that yourdestinity didn't mean what was listed. It's obvious that changes to that part of the gameplay that simply lead to game crashes and freezes are necessary to fix so that the game can continue. For example, the game developers also didn't intend for the game to freeze under certain circumstances. If a game error occurs (crash, freeze), it means that the processes leading to it are already disrupting the gameplay, as it leads to an incorrect termination of its further use in the game, and its treatment is, paradoxically, not a change to the gameplay, but a necessary link for the game so that we can continue to use it.
Perhaps it would have been worth paying attention to the introduction of a chess timer, which is a new feature in the game and not just a bug fix.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
If a game error occurs (crash, freeze), it means that the processes leading to it are already disrupting the gameplay, as it leads to an incorrect termination of further use in the game, and its fix, paradoxically, is not a change in gameplay, but rather a necessary element for the game so that we can continue to use it.
Endless AI turn: In HD, we can play the current situation; in the original, we absolutely cannot. Verdict: a clear and significant change in gameplay (i.e., in this scenario, a person playing SoD, no matter how hard they try, cannot achieve the result that the HD player achieved). Clone bug: In HD, we can successfully cast Clone with the current stack arrangement; in the original, we absolutely cannot (glitches, crashes). Verdict: a clear and significant change in gameplay (i.e., in this scenario, a person playing SoD, no matter how hard they try, cannot achieve the result that the HD player achieved). The fact that the game situations in which these bugs occur are very rare does not justify the change in gameplay.
However, the automatic fix for map errors is separated from gameplay bugs in 3.0 because: 1. The bug is not regular. That is, playing in HD gives the same result as if we were playing SoD and got lucky. 2. The game never continues after the bug. 3. In the original, the game rolls back, and if all players, the AI, and the randomizer repeat the exact same actions, we can continue playing and get a 100% identical HD result. R55Max
With all due respect, it is obvious that yourdestinity did not mean what was listed.
What did he mean? R55Max
Perhaps attention should have been paid to the introduction of a chess timer, which is a new feature in the game and not a bug fix.
The chess timer is a new feature in TE; it is not in HD. Why should we pay attention to it here?
Message from baratorch: Infinite AI turn: In HD, we can play with the current setup; in the original, we absolutely cannot. Verdict: a clear and significant change to the gameplay. (i.e., with this setup, a player using SOD, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to achieve the result that the HD player achieved).
This is what I was talking about. We cannot play in the original, therefore, this phenomenon, in its essence, carries irreversible processes that drive the original into a dead end, leading to a failure of the entire program (gameplay) and here it is necessary to make changes. And here it is already incorrect to talk about SOD vs. HD, because SOD without errors, ideally, is SOD+HD as a single whole, that is, SOD + HD = perfect SOD.
It should be taken into account that changing bugs, as a result of which the original gameplay changes, is not a change in the essence of the game, but rather an improvement of the old gameplay, which I usually call refining SOD.
And here is why the automatic fix for map errors is separated in 3.0 from gameplay bugs: 1. The bug is not regular. That is, playing in HD gives the same result as if we were playing SOD and we were lucky.
The same thing. Although it is not constant, it is of the same nature as bugs, the correction of which only leads to a natural continuation of the game, and not to its unnatural completion.
What did he mean? )
As far as I understand, he wrote from the heart, and in general, it was not very nice to bring this here. I think he will answer himself what he meant, but I understood it this way:
Firstly, the desire that the HD mod does not turn into an "author's whim," I apologize for the rudeness (the VT version is an example of this). SOD fans loved HD not because it is different from SOD, but because it is SOD, which is pleasant to use, but if HD starts attaching labels of unpopular VT functions to itself, it will gradually (perhaps very slowly) begin to lose this very love of SOD fans, for whom, believe me, HD is a thousand times more important than for VT fans.
Here is, perhaps, the most explanatory statement on this subject, which applies to the entire HD:
Message from Dirty_Player: You have just as much constructive criticism. Everyone knows and understands the advantages of VT features, but people are against shoving them into the mod, and I support them in this. Reasoning like you (who will be harmed if we put everything on checkboxes?) can lead to absurdity, like, what's wrong with having level 2 and 3 stacks at the start? And why not remove necromancy? etc.
Secondly, and most importantly, as I see it, the idea is that optionality is not the path to perfection; optional mobility will never replace a camera, a ruler, or a professional GPS navigator with their capabilities. It is not worth endlessly living with changes to the original, and then changes to the changes (in our case, this is even if not a change of something, then at least, the addition of options) and so on...
Message from baratorch: The chess timer is a new feature in TE; it is not in HD, so why pay attention to it here?
I haven't downloaded the version; I also somehow prefer 2.98; I thought it had already been implemented.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
I would only leave the damage of ranged towers as is; everyone is already used to it, so let it be considered a feature. Everything else seems appropriate and shouldn't confuse the global community.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
Dear moderators! If possible, please move the posts discussing which game players prefer (SoD vs. WT) to the Forum!
Regarding the issue at hand. Regardless of which game players prefer, everyone has different opinions on whether gameplay features should be changed in the HD mod, and which ones. It is obvious that it is impossible to force everyone to accept any single option for all cases. I think we can do the following (this has already been discussed): divide (initially, just in classification) all gameplay features that the HD mod can change into two large groups. The first group includes obvious developer errors, the correction of which simply allows you to continue playing. This can include: the game freezing during an AI opponent's turn, the hero "duplicating," the city "graying out," the Clone spell bug, etc. The second group includes features that, without correction, the game can still be played, but which may give some players an advantage over others. This can include: doubled damage from ranged towers with the Air Shield spell, sulfur in Naga jars, etc. Perhaps the sale of artifacts at an inflated price can also be included here (although, in my opinion, it would be best to fix it, but there will always be those who like it). So, here is my suggestion: divide the "Fix Gameplay" option in the HD mod into two, corresponding to these two groups. In this case, I think most players will agree to enable the first option, and how to proceed with the second one can be decided through discussion in specific situations. And then no one will have any prejudice against the HD mod because it changes something in the gameplay, and it will be much more popular.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було… (Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
For now, I decided to remove the change to the ranged towers. I played it – I didn't like it (logically, the fix is correct, but the siege gameplay is too different: a developed hero does very little damage to the towers).
R55Max
The chess timer is a new feature in TE, it's not in HD, why are you paying attention to it here?
I didn't download the version; I still prefer 2.98 for some reason. I thought they had already implemented it.
Facepalm. Very sad. This is why I wrote:
Too many letters?
I'm asking questions here not to argue. But to find out what's wrong with the latest version, so I can fix it. I haven't figured it out yet; there are some unclear complaints about things that people didn't even bother to check.
Please, if you are interested in developing HD, read the description and changes and specifically, point by point, say what is bad about 3.0, how it is worse than 2.98, what is wrong.
I'm reading the changes and description and see that 3.0 is BETTER than 2.98 in EVERY way.
Do you disagree? Then state your point of view.
R55Max
Firstly, the desire to prevent the HD mod from turning into an "author's project," I apologize for the rudeness (the VT version is an example). Fans of SoD loved HD not because it's different from SoD, but because it IS SoD, which is enjoyable to use. But if HD starts attaching labels of unpopular VT features to itself, it will gradually (perhaps very slowly) begin to lose the love of SoD fans, for whom HD is a thousand times more important than for VT fans.
What are the prerequisites for this? What grounds are there to fear this? Clearly, without irrational fears.
I don't seem to have conveyed what I wanted to say when I described the bugs and their fixes.
Again.
A bug that fixes glitches and crashes with the custom "clone" spell in a specific situation. Is this a good fix? Yes! Is it a necessary fix? Yes! Do everyone like it? Yes! Example (unlikely, but still possible): two players are playing an offline SoD tournament, one without HD, the other with HD + fixes. Both reach a certain battle and a certain situation in the battle. They cast clone. The first one has glitches, and he realizes that he can't win the battle like this, so he reloads and plays the battle differently, getting his result. And the second one successfully casts clone and gets a very different result.
Obviously, these two players were playing different games; their results cannot be compared in the same tournament!
The same applies to the fix for the AI freeze. These absolutely harmless, fluffy, and essential fixes still turn the original game into a slightly different game.
This is what I call a change in gameplay, i.e., when fixes in the game allow you to do something that you cannot do in the original game, no matter how hard you try.
However, some people get very upset by the words "change in gameplay." If that's the case, just turn off the option and play with the bugs; it's no big deal. I don't understand why there is so much indignation (and some people are even trying to say that optionality is evil).
P.S. I don't consider the sulfur in the nagabank to be a bug, but I also don't consider the stones in it to be some terrible modification. The main thing is that the opponents have the same thing...
P.P.S. HD doesn't touch the nagabank
Finally, the 3rd version test took place. No crashes or errors.
The main innovation - save password protection - works. It would be good to have some kind of feedback sent from the opponent to the host when creating a map, indicating that the opponent has also entered a password. Also, this should be implemented when loading a save (after postponing or an error). It is also necessary to consider removing passwords from all saves after the game, as entering a password every time would be quite tedious. In addition, it should be possible to open the map after the game. I also note that it is not possible to save during the opponent's turn. This seems like a bug, as the message window indicating that the save was successful appears. Regarding roads. Once, when creating a map and choosing medium and fast roads, slow roads were still drawn. Regarding troop transfer. Ctrl + down arrow - this function is useful, but I was confused when I needed to detach 5 units from 40 gnolls for another hero to fight in a dungeon (all troops were transferred, and then everything had to be returned and done again). And one more thing that is still fresh in my memory. During the opponent's turn, the skill descriptions for visited witch huts, the spell lists in magic shrines, and possibly other objects are missing. The selected template from the list is not saved, or some kind of error occurs with a message that the map cannot be created for the current selection. After re-selecting the template, everything works normally.
It would also be good to consider removing passwords from all save files after the game, as entering a password each time would be quite tedious. In addition, there should be an option to open the map after the game. I would also like to note that it is not possible to save the game during the opponent's turn.
I would also like to note that you cannot save during your opponent's turn. It seems like a bug, as the message window indicating that the save was successful appears.
Without the mod, you can save during your opponent's turn, but it will not contain accurate data about your opponent's position. You cannot continue the game from this save, and you cannot analyze your opponent's moves after the game using it. A complete save can only be made during your own turn. Therefore, I don't think it matters how the save function works during your opponent's turn in the mod.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
Message from baratorch: The chess timer is a new feature in TE; it's not in HD. Why are you even mentioning it here?
I haven't downloaded the version; I still prefer 2.98 for some reason. I thought they had already implemented it.
Message from baratorch: Facepalm. Very sad.
If you communicate like that, should I start my response with "foot - butt?"
After reading this message:
Message from Medium_HP: P.S. When creating a network game again without restarting, the timer continues to tick while waiting for the opponent. It doesn't really interfere, but it probably wasn't intended to work that way.
I somehow got the impression that it was about SOD+HD, and that the chess timer was implemented in HD, although in reality, it was about WoG with HD. That's why I lost interest in reading about new features in HD, assuming that HD was going down the wrong path (IMHO). I didn't bother looking at version 3.0.
Message from baratorch: Too many letters?
Long texts don't scare me.
I'm asking questions here not to argue, but to find out what's wrong with the latest version so that I can fix it. I haven't figured it out yet, and there are some unclear complaints about things that I haven't even bothered to look at.
I'm not here to argue either, but to advocate for HD to move in the direction it's currently in, which is in harmony with SOD, and not WoG. And if I have to have conversations with supporters of another version, there's no way around it. Regarding the unclear complaints:
After reading the response to Yourdestiny's message, from my point of view, including being convinced that the chess timer had appeared, I responded, expressing my understanding of what he wrote, and at the same time, I touched on a few more topics, which in any case still hold true. You can consider it a preventative discussion of these issues, and the fact that I was wrong about the timer and didn't want to download the mod because of it, well, everyone makes mistakes; that's why the topic was created, to resolve them.
P.S. I downloaded 3.0, and I like it. I haven't figured out how to separate a single unit from a stack of one hero to another in the troop exchange window?
Another question: is it possible to reduce the empty lower right panel in the adventure window (information about the hero, and below it, there's just empty space occupied by him) to increase the upper part, for example, to increase the display of the number of cities to 8-10, and also for the possible implementation of some buttons?
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
Without a mod, you can save the game during an opponent's turn, but it won't contain accurate information about the opponent's position. You can't continue the game from this save, and you can't analyze the opponent's moves after the game. A complete save can only be made during your turn. Therefore, I don't think it matters how the save function works during an opponent's turn in the mod.
Analyzing such a save, especially without a mod, is not of interest. An error/bug occurs. A window for creating a save appears, but the save itself is not created. Let's minimize errors.
Message from Medium_HP P.S. When recreating an online game without restarting, the timer continues to tick while waiting for an opponent. It doesn't really interfere, but it's probably not how it was intended.
For some reason, I remembered that it was specifically about SoD+HD and the implementation of a chess timer in HD, although in reality, it was about VT with HD. That's why I lost interest in reading about further updates in HD, assuming that HD was heading down the wrong path (IMHO). I didn't bother looking at version 3.0.
The message was indeed about SoD+HD, and VT is not to blame.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
baratorch
