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Posts from "Newcomer-2012. Summer"

Tournament History online Closed Topic
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In reply to Dark
Offline Niemand
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darkello
Point 2 contradicts point 3.
Point 3 is about playing the game to the fullest.

Essentially, everything should remain as it is.
Changes to the rules should have been made before the registration period began.
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Offline Pyre
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03.07.2012 Pyre (blue, Swamp, Tazar) def ShadowManiac (red, Stronghold, Crag Hack) 2SM4d(3) 216.
On the first week I picked up 2 secondary skills, built the Castle and in it Tier 1-6. On the first day Tazar learned Necromancy from a scholar, though I never managed to raise a horde of skeletons with necromancy. And at the end of the week I got wiped at a Manticore Lair down to zero.
On the second week I barely scraped by, cleared 2 Dragon Fly Hives, then a Griffin Conservatory at 1 and a Griffin Conservatory at 3. And at the end of the week I entered the treasure zone. Built Hydras.
On the third week I played terribly, lost a lot in the treasure zone; the only upside was the Book of Fire, which turned out to be useless.
On the fourth week I broke into another treasure zone, found 20 Drones in a Pandora's Box, and went to hit a Dragon Utopia with a secondary hero. In the Dragon Utopia I got +4 All, and the Book of Air.
Second month, week one:
I split my army via chain, passed troops around, entered a long-scouted portal, and ended up in a treasure zone. There I cleared 2 Pandora's Boxes with Crystal Dragons and Titans (gave junk), took a max Dragon Utopia, which gave a Sword +12, +4 Attack/Defense Chain Mail, and Angel Wings.
I crawled back out and continued toward the opponent through the treasure zone. Along the way I took a Dragon Fly Hive, some Pandora's Boxes, and 2 heroes from prisons.
On turn 215 I passed the turn, and then the opponent attacked. Tazar (25 19 8 14) easily wiped Crag Hack (16 6 9 4) with roughly equal armies.
Thanks for the game!
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Offline SVAROG
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03.07.2012 SVAROG (blue, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def BloodRak (red, Fortress, Wystan, Kyrre) 2SM4d(3) 124.
We took 2 resets on 111 and we were off.
111 — ranged units built, from the start 32 gremlins, 5 heroes scattered! Crypt near-max, I upgrade Medusa Hive to max!!! From the Castle 2 roads. 1 — into Dungeon. 2 — into GO (Bone Dragons). I see my opponent has Kyrre in the tavern — bad.
112 — I break through 20-49 Master Gremlins for Dungeon, and on the other side 20-49 Fire Elementals :confused: In the corner of the respawn there's an external dwelling of ranged units, Griffins, a couple of crypts, artifact +4 Attack. I turn around and start clearing the respawn.
113-117 I clear my respawn, collect money, of which a lot has piled up. In the Castle, levels 1,2,4,6 are in the Castle. I split Valya and stay for the night.
121 — I build GM1, buy a book for Valya, which decided things in the end. It has Haste. I pass the army down the chain, immediately buying the external dwelling, exchange resources at the external market, in town I buy Cavalry and Ranged Units — there are 67 of them. I take the max Medusa Hive.
122 — I break through the Fire Elementals for Dungeon, capture a Necropolis castle, and with Air Scrying I discover a Treasure Zone nearby. I go there immediately.
123 — I bring up 3 Monks and Cavalry, break through the Gold Golems and head for the good stuff. I hit 9 Black Knights for the Dragon Fly Hive, but I don't attack with the Ranged Units, I wait for a hero to pass the Ranged Units to him. I pass the turn and Kyrre attacks!
Valya 11 5 2 2 (15) level 8, Expert Leadership, Archery, Offense, Basic Air Magic. 61 Archers, 6 Cavalry, 11 Cavalry, 7 Griffins, 3 Monks.
Kyrre 13 10 1 1. 1 Angel, 18 Wyverns, 30 Archers, 2 Basilisks, a Snake (Hydra?). Kyrre without a book. I cast Haste on the Archers, protect them and shoot everyone down. My opponent writes GG. Thanks for the game. When I saw 18 Wyverns, I thought I was done for, but magic decided it; the Archers moved faster than the Wyverns by 2 right away, -9. Very glad it's my first game in tournaments and a win :smile44:
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Offline BloodRak
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Offline Pit for LM
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Regarding the introduction of a template ban in the second round of the group stage. Since there are those who have already advanced to the second round and are against the changes, we will not change anything; the second round of the groups will be played with the standard template. By mutual agreement, you can play with a ban. BUT, if a player aims to be in the top 8, they need to familiarize themselves with at least two more templates from the list within the next month.
darkello
Proposed changes to the tournament rules (and tournaments in general)...
What is the purpose of these changes? Does it mean that these measures guarantee fair play? Or is it for something else? These changes will not guarantee fair play.
darkello
1) In general, if I were the organizers, I would make it a mandatory condition at the stage when 8 players remain - a "STREAM"! Each player in online mode (a live broadcast, so to speak), regardless of whether anyone is watching or not, must stream through a platform (and provide a link to the stream in the appropriate topic), which would essentially allow the truly strongest to win!
We are studying the case of RBW, who streamed all his games and still successfully cheated.
darkello
2) On my own example, I can say that my level of trust in online games (that is, players) is zero.
Yes, online play is based on trust. Those who have been playing for a long time know each other well, and the vast majority of players play fairly. Yes, there are those who are not trusted; they try not to include them in tournaments, they don't play fun games with them; these people are also known.
darkello
I ask that a player in a tournament (specifically in a tournament, not a season) be given the right to warn their opponent before the game that the game will be played to the fullest.
Let's look at the FB tournament. The time limit on Jeb is 10 minutes, and on the others, it's 8 minutes. A turn lasts at least 15 minutes, which is at least half an hour for one day, at least 14 hours in a gaming month. This is the minimum! Usually, it's longer. The deadline is until the middle of the second month. Recently, I played on Jeb in 4 sessions, totaling about 30 hours. What is the point of all this "to the fullest"? And what about sleeping, working, eating, and just taking a break from Heroes? What if the internet or electricity goes out? What if there is a controversial situation and a judge needs to be called, but he is not online? What if this happens after a day? Do we replay? Well, that's Chinese style ;) (although newbies probably don't know the Chinese rules). Anyone who wants to maphack can easily do it on the opponent's turn. In general, a strong player only needs a few seconds to assess the map. Only a strong player doesn't need it, and it won't help a weak player.
darkello
Excuses that a game to the fullest can take a long time sound a bit stupid...
How many hours can you play in a row?
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In reply to Pit for LM
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Offline Dark
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Pit for LM

What is the purpose of these changes? Does it mean that these measures guarantee fair play? Or is it for something else?
These changes will not guarantee fair play.

Yes, these measures are aimed at fair play. Of course, I apologize, but even laws (and not only in the Russian Federation) do not guarantee anything 100%, but these actions will reduce the chance of cheating.
Pit for LM

We are investigating the case of RBW, who streamed all his games and successfully cheated at the same time.
As I already said, you can't foresee everything 100%.
Pit for LM

Yes, online play is based on trust. Those who have been playing for a long time know each other well, and the vast majority of players play fairly.
This is a tournament for beginners. As for those who have been playing for a long time, they will easily support the condition of streaming, for example, SevenSan, and I don't think you would be against it, etc.
Pit for LM

We are watching the FB tournament. The time limit for Jeb is 10 minutes, and for the rest - 8 minutes. A turn lasts at least 15 minutes, which is at least half an hour for one day, at least 14 hours per gaming month. This is the minimum! Usually it's longer. The deadline is until the middle of the second month. Recently, I played Jeb in 4 sessions, totaling about 30 hours. What is the point of such "hardcore" dedication? And what about sleeping, working, eating, and just taking a break from Heroes? What if the internet or electricity goes out? What if there is a controversial situation and a judge needs to be called, but he is not online? What if this happens a day after the start? Do we replay? Well, that's very Chinese ;) (although beginners probably don't know the Chinese rules). Anyone who wants to maphack can easily do it on someone else's turn. In general, a strong player only needs a few seconds to assess the map. But a strong player doesn't need it, and it won't help a weak player.
Let's assume that this rule does not apply to all maps. And as for the fact that they will still cheat... we come back to the answer: you can't foresee everything 100%, but it will still make them think, and again, this does not apply to the entire season, but only to the rounds. You can even make a list of mega-honest players for whom this condition is not mandatory.
Pit for LM

And how many hours can you play in a row?
Considering that this will be a preliminary agreement, I think from 4 to 12-15 hours (depending on how much strength I have)
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In reply to Dark
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Offline m2d3
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I used to think that you should play until the very end, just in case your opponent has something up their sleeve during a break, and they can't resist the urge to "just take a quick peek, maybe with both eyes...". But in my last game with Yegor Korobeynikov, I was convinced otherwise. I insisted on playing "until the very end." As a result, the game lost all interest, I didn't sleep at all, and I went to work at 9 am. Conclusion: everything should be in moderation. Don't trust me? Fine. If you lose, you can check the saves. If something doesn't seem right, you can figure it out.
P.S. Drug addicts play Dota for 48 hours straight...
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In reply to m2d3
Offline s1va
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m2d3
I myself used to think that you should play until the very end, just in case the opponent has something up their sleeve during a break, and might not be able to resist the urge to: "just take a quick peek, or maybe a slightly longer one...". But in my last game with Yegor Korobeynikov, I was convinced otherwise. I insisted on playing "until the very end" during the game. As a result, the game lost all interest, I didn't sleep at all, and went to work at 9. Conclusion: everything should be in moderation. Don't trust me? Fine. If you lose, you can check the saves. If something doesn't suit you, you can figure it out.
P.S. Some people play Dota for 48 hours straight...

If you install a mod to transfer troops, artifacts, and improve the interface, you can open the heroes in another window and auto-load them. So, playing "until the very end" is not a guarantee of fair play. There's simply no point in playing that way, even in a tournament without prizes.
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Offline Егор Коробейников
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Guys, you're being incredibly naive. Cheating is easy; you can transfer data to a neighboring computer, put it on a flash drive, and load it from there. Everyone who has played more than 15 times knows this, but no one does it. Even if someone is streaming, they can share access to a folder from a neighboring computer and do all the dirty work from there during the opponent's turn. As for resource management (RMK), any decent player can assess the situation in 1.5 minutes, down to the smallest detail (and if it's a rough estimate, it takes just a few seconds. Dwellings, constructs, and hives can be quickly counted, as well as the gold needed). The main thing is to know that your setup is better than your opponent's, to guarantee an advantage at the start. Therefore, the only way to test skill is to play on neighboring computers. Of course, this won't be at home and will take a lot of time. I suggest everyone make daily saves and keep all their games. That way, if there's a question about a player's honesty, the community could provide enough game saves. If a question arises and someone wants to check another player's honesty, they could be given enough saves to analyze the situation. Therefore, the conclusion: if someone wants to cheat online, there's no way to stop them, not with streams or anything else! Only an analysis of their actions can help. So, daily saves will solve everything, and saves from turn 111, when the opponent takes (or doesn't take) RMK, will be very helpful, as the bot doesn't do this. And regarding actions in general, that's also debatable. Because what might seem like a strange move to one player could be normal to another...
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Offline 7z
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If you suspect someone is cheating, it's better not to play with them. And in Tournaments, only check the saves. I myself am a fierce opponent of saves and resuming games, but for a different reason. It takes too long to recall the train of thought from the previous session—what was bought, etc. But some matches (and certain opponents) are simply physically impossible to complete in one sitting. You just haven't had those kinds of games yet :)

P.S. Do the Chinese replay the entire match in case of a disconnect?
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In reply to Pyre
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Offline ShadowManiac
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Pyre
03.07.2012 Pyre (blue, swamp, Tazar) def ShadowManiac (red, Stronghold, Crag Hack) 2SM4d(3) 216.
On the first week I took 2 secondary skills, built the Castle and levels 1-6 in it. On the first day I got Necromancy from a scholar with Tazar, though I never managed to get a horde of skeletons for necromancy. And at the end of the week I got wiped at a Gorgon lair to zero.
On the second week I barely bought enough to clear 2 Dragon Fly Hives, then a Griffin Conservatory at 1 and a Griffin Conservatory at 3. And at the end of the week I entered the treasure zone. I built Hydras.
On the third week I played terribly, lost a lot in the treasure zone; the only plus was the Book of Fire, which ended up being useless.
On the fourth week I broke into another treasure zone, found 20 Drones in Pandora's Box, and went to hit a Dragon Utopia with a secondary hero. The Dragon Utopia gave +4 all, Book of Air.
Second month week one:
I split my troops using a chain, enter a portal scouted long ago, and end up in a treasure zone. I clear 2 Pandora's Boxes there with crystal dragons and titans (gave junk), take a max Dragon Utopia, which gives a sword +12, +4 attack/defense chain mail, and Angel Wings.
I crawl back and head further towards the opponent through the treasure zone. Along the way I take a Dragon Fly Hive, some Pandora's Boxes, 2 heroes in prisons.
On turn 215 I pass the turn, and then the opponent attacks. Tazar (25 19 8 14) easily defeats Crag Hack (16 6 9 4) with roughly equal armies.
Thanks for the game!
Confirmed. Thanks for the game.

For a long time I couldn't take a secondary skill, and the ore mine was behind mountains. I barely managed to build bears on week 1. But then I lost them later. Overall one of my worst games :(
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Offline R55Max
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Everything is back to square one. There is still no protection against cheating. The only possible option remains password-protected saves, where access to the save can be obtained by mutually entering passwords from two machines, and the game resumes. The saves are stored on an independent server. We can only hope that one day Baratorch will refine this idea and it will be implemented.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Pit for LM
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Let's read the first post of the tournament:
6. Save files of all matches must be saved until the end of the tournament and presented upon first request from the tournament organizers or any member of the AC.
It is essential to make save files, review your own game, and your opponent's game. If you have any questions, contact the judges; in our tournament, these are experienced players, and they will help and explain.
darkello
... these actions will reduce the chance of cheating.
Those who want to cheat cannot be stopped by a transponder and "to the fullest extent"; it is easily circumvented.
These actions are like the ban on carrying liquids in airplanes in carry-on luggage. In Europe, airplanes are the cheapest mode of transportation. You fly somewhere for the weekend, there is no luggage, only a small bag with the essentials for 2 days. You cannot take a tube of toothpaste. You squeeze a little into foil for 2 days))) The same goes for a bottle of water, but there are practically no 24-hour stores there. Well, airplanes continue to explode...
darkello
This is a tournament for beginners.
Exactly, and
The main goal of the tournament is to get to know each other and gain experience in communication and gameplay.
That is what we are doing now - getting to know each other)
And in the future...
For some, this will be a start in serious tournaments; others will give up on Heroes.
darkello
And regarding those who have been known for a long time, they will easily agree to stream, for example, SevenSan; you yourself probably wouldn't mind, etc.
I'm always traveling around the world) And when visiting, you don't choose the internet; sometimes, we can't connect with an opponent for 5 hours, so there's no time for streaming.
I managed to stream from Paris on Thursdays) On other days, it's not very good) From China, they say their internet doesn't allow it. From Moscow, a significant buffer accumulates. In the last half hour, I watch together with the viewers.
I talked to some good players. They say that they don't want to stream serious, responsible games; it distracts too much, and you are already nervous and don't have time... And the viewers sometimes accidentally say something extra in the chat.
Therefore, no, I won't easily agree to it.
7z
And do the Chinese replay the entire match in case of a disconnect?
Oh, they have a funny rule. If you disconnect, you lose. But the opponent can "show nobility" and agree to a replay.
So, good internet is the key to victory for them.
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Offline VanjaM
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Regarding playing games non-stop – that's complete nonsense. I don't know about you, but I play Heroes primarily for fun, and I'm not going to fight against sleep or anything else just to finish a match. As for mandatory streams, I'm not a big fan either; everyone does what they can, and this isn't an army.
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Offline JustObserver
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I only didn't understand one thing – why the structure was changed in such a way that the players who are the least experienced and for whom this tournament could have been a good platform to continue playing online were eliminated after only 2 games. Why was it decided to abandon the larger groups?
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