Posts from Fortress versus Necropolis.

I think having a mentor for the Dwarf is also a big plus. A skilled Dwarf will definitely use it for maximum efficient leveling and other interesting tricks. The same applies to artifacts. Regarding the confrontation between these two races, I still believe it's 60% in favor of the Dwarf, assuming the Necromancer is also skilled. If the Necromancer player is even slightly less skilled, the chances are very slim. But I still assume that the Necromancers from Heroes might be able to compete – Deidre, Zoltan, and Lucretia, the rest have no chance.

and other interesting tricks

Which are actually just the product of people's imaginations, who have played the game too much.

60% to 40% in favor of the dwarf

Numbers that are not supported by any evidence.

Deydra, Zoltan, and Lucretia

But what about the dwarves?

I guess I should take Erling Ing or Helmar as a Dwarf – I don’t see any other options.

There are many ways to win:
1) Take Orson, level up everything related to defense, and especially readiness.
2) Level up Spell Power and only you will be able to move.
3) Subjugation works well against dwarves (subjugate the strongest stack and use runes to defeat the enemy with their own troops, just don't accidentally click the exorcism rune).
4) Initially, accumulate the maximum number of troops (at the beginning of each week, hire 2 heroes and turn the troops into your own, and immediately dismiss them. Attack powerful monsters only when you have a lot of dark energy, especially since the map is cleared in 2 months. Upgrade skeletons into archers and keep them in the corner.
In general, there are many options, and if you combine points 1, 3, and 4, you can easily win. I used this tactic to defeat a guy who had been holding a city for a month. He was playing as Ingvar, on a "War of Survival" map. You're lucky he's not playing as Ingvar.
Don't make a Berserker. Study the dwarves' skill tree, and you'll see "Sudden Attack," so a Berserker doesn't work here.

Yeah, I don't really care! I've said everything. I just wanted to help you, but I don't believe in your problems.

Hello everyone, I've just registered on this forum. :) Now, about the topic at hand. I've been reading here, and you guys are really something. :D The Necromancer's leadership is only effective in a very small minority of cases. And there's no point in taking Logistics for the Outlands when the game lasts 4-5 months. The Necromancer is ideal for long games; there's no one stronger here. Dwarves, for example, are not even in second place; any Elven hero can defeat them without a chance, of course, with the right build – for example, Storm Wind + mass dispel + leadership with speed aura + attack with Forest Fury and Retribution + Education + Luck. :rolleyes: A foolproof strategy for the Necromancer (with rare exceptions): Orson with Expert skills: Defense, Attack, Education, Darkness, Sorcery. And abilities: Master of Curses, Master of Minds, Stone Resilience, Haste, Tactics, Distraction. Throughout the map, we try to find defense – especially on arenas – not attack, but specifically defense. As a rule, it can be boosted to over 30-35, taking artifacts into account – then the Dwarf has no chance. We run around the map, trying to raise unupgraded creatures – mainly archers and zombies. When there are no more low-level creatures on the map, we raise Undead or Dragons from Utopias. We only raise upgraded creatures if there's nothing else to spend our resources on until the end of the week. A very important detail is to try to get to the cart with artifacts or other available ways to obtain the Necromancer's amulet as soon as possible – preferably by the end of the second week. Then, raising Bone Warriors (un-upgraded) will only cost 1 resource point. If you have enough skill when clearing neutrals, you can skip Spiritual Link and Eternal Slavery – with the same speed of clearing, you can lose almost no one – I won't go into detail, as the tactic is very extensive – it covers all situations and is not relevant to the topic. Artifacts – the following are recommended: Armor of the Forgotten Hero, Mountain King's Axe (or Staff of Sar-Iss), Ring of Speed, Horseshoe. Everything else – 6 pieces of the Dragon set (for a tasty bonus). If there are very few low-level troops, you can replace the Armor of the Forgotten Hero with Dragon Armor, and the Necklace of the Dragon with the Necklace of the Blood Claw. By the way, the Dwarf set is useless against another Dwarf. :D Army at the beginning of the battle (4-5 months): Bone Warriors (1500-2500, average 1800), Rotting Zombies (about 1000), Spirits (300-400), Vampires (200-300), Archliches (120-180), Death Messengers (50-100), Phantom Dragons (40-60). Battle tactic – use general haste, then enthrall one of the units (Yaks are best, or Bears if they are still alive). Then, cast Vampirism on all units that still have a lot of health – all are suitable except Spirits and Vampires – first Zombies, then Death Messengers, then Dragons, then Bone Warriors. For the troops – immediately after the Dragons' turn, remove (preferably with Spirits) their retaliation (as soon as they are close to our troops). Then, attack with all the other units – by the time of the Dragons' next turn, there will probably be no more than 0-5 of them left. And then, defeat all the other Dwarves. Usually, the chances of such undead against Dwarves are no less than 80%. Rare exception: A battle against an Academic with the following build: Empathy + Control Machines + Storm Wind and General Defense + Counterspell + Resistance and BDP – with the corresponding skills brought to Expert level. Knowledge above 40, mini-artifacts for initiative, defense, and (attention!) reduction of defense per hit – the last mini-artifact gives a cumulative effect. Then, any Necromancer will have a hard time, although usually there is still enough meat to finish off the Mage's troops. But then, the undead's chances are 30%. That's about it. :)

Hmm. Interesting approach:eek:
I can hardly imagine playing for 4-5 months on such a barren map as the Land of Outcasts...
In my opinion, the Fortress is one of the strongest factions in the late game.
Why spend so much time leveling up in, say, the Dungeon, if we're only going to use 2 spells in battle? And the other debuffs aren't needed, apparently?
And the enemy hero will be level 3, right?
Overall, a "fascinating" tactic, huh...
But no offense. Okay?

Orson is strong, yes, but the author seems to think that the dwarf will be completely useless. While reading, I found many flaws in this "tactic." Not to mention that the number of skeletons varies within a shocking range. And the artifacts are simply fantastic.

Okay, I'll answer in order. 1) I agree, the Outcast faction has a poor selection of creatures on the map. 2) Yes and no. I already wrote about the Elves and Undead. Also, Orcs and Inferno are equally competitive with Dwarves. On the other hand, Dwarves have a chance against any race. 3) A large number of mass-effecting spells guarantees versatility - sometimes it's useful to cast a general weakening spell, sometimes a debuff (for example, when the opponent has 6 units of one type and 2 units of another type, like early and harpooners), sometimes a slowing spell, sometimes a weakening spell, but in any case, 1-3 mass-effecting spells are essential - this gives a very large advantage, especially in a prolonged battle, which the Undead have against Dwarves, plus the hero moves more often, especially considering spellcasting. In general, the Necromancer manages to cast 6-12 spells per battle (depending on tactics and the "protection" characteristic), sometimes more. And none of his spells are wasted - this is due to the versatility of the spells. 4) The opponent's hero, so that no one has any more illusions. A total of about 10 battles were fought in the late game against Dwarves. And all of them were won. Replays are needed - I'll return home in mid-August and post them right here. The strongest hero builds that were encountered: a) Inga, level 31, with empathy, retribution, readiness, storm wind, and mass dispel, all skills are expert. It was the most difficult with her; she cast divine retribution for 3-5k damage and also tried to remove debuffs in places. I won only due to the number of units - 1300 zombies. b) Ingvar, level 30, with Creature Summoning, Higher Education, Expert Attack, and Battle Blessing. c) Karl the Warrior, level 29 - Dwarven Luck, Defensive Hird, Stone Skin, Inspiration, Retribution, Higher Education. Against him, I figured out how to equip the Staff of Sar-Iss, anticipating the Dwarven Luck upgrade. 5) The variation in the number of troops in the final depends on many factors - from neutrals to quickly obtaining the "Amulet of the Necromancer" and taking Mentorship, upgrading 7 Necromancer heroes towards Necromancy, and increasing the number of magic points to 1000. In the latter case, WITHOUT counting the attached troops, it was possible to gather up to 4k skeletons. Usually, it's around 1800. 6) Regarding artifacts, it's hilarious: D First, I said that this is an ideal to strive for - it doesn't mean that it is always achieved. Secondly, on the "Outcast Lands" map, there are 4 Utopias and 4 artifact carts - all this wealth is replenished every month (Utopia is replenished a month after it is taken). By the middle of the 5th month, therefore, you can (4+4)*4=32(!!!) times replenish the supply of artifacts. Considering that the opponent is not a complete novice, we divide our number in half - we get 16. Yes, it happens that repeated artifacts are always found, and the necessary artifacts are not given. But this is 25% of the cases. 7) Regarding the shortcomings of the tactics - you argue the statement, indicate in what specifically the shortcomings are. :) And even better - conduct a couple of battles with this strategy. KillAndAction, there is nothing to be offended about here. This is a normal discussion. :)

Regarding the shortcomings of the tactic, please provide arguments and specify what the specific shortcomings are.

First, let's consider the lack of summoning. How are you going to clear out serious neutral creatures, like titans, without summoning and a spiritual connection? Furthermore, we immediately lose the phoenix, celestial shield, and wall of swords.
Next. It is mentioned that there is domination and vampirism. It is not a given that they will be in the guild, or that there will be either domination or vampirism, if the second castle does not have dark magic in its guild. What should be done?
Third. Usually, antimagic is used against domination.
Fourth. No one has considered that the dwarf can also take chaos magic and throw a few Armageddons.
I think I've written enough.

Summoning is certainly useful during the breakthrough. But it's possible to do without it, because by the final late-game battle, it will be nothing more than a waste of levels.

First, let's consider the absence of summoning. How do you intend to clear serious neutrals, like titans, without summoning and spiritual link?

Summoning, along with machines, is for beginners and rush games. If we take into account that you already casually assume the use of spells like summon phoenix or wall of swords, it's logical to assume that I will be just as likely to pick up berserk, mind control, or vampirism. Then, breaking through 8-12 titans without losses in weeks 2-3 (which is what I usually do, though only with "raise dead" without skilled summoning) becomes a mere formality.
If you rely solely on the power of "raise dead" through summoning, then that is certainly an advantage. But you can bypass this point, i.e.: level up Orson's BB or BDP — you can sacrifice general stone skin (it's easier for him). Generally, by the middle of week 3, about 400 skeletons are gathered on average, so together with single ghosts, alt-zombies under the ability, the hero (averaging level 15-20), and weak raise dead, this is quite achievable without any convoluted tricks. We cover our archers with a stack of 1 bone warrior — this is a remedy against all ranged units. That was an exception for titans :D
Other strong neutrals (including the utopia in week 3) are taken down as follows: take zombies (there are about 250 of them by the middle of week 3), 400 of the same archers, and single ghosts. Skeletons shoot, zombies stand and hit if necessary, ghosts provide cover. AI neutrals are designed to always hit ghosts and almost never hit zombies if they can hit ghosts. Moreover, zombies have very high defense stats under Orson — in week 3, 4 black dragons from the utopia took out 6-7 zombies who were standing under the "defend" command.

Next, here we lose phoenix, heavenly shield, and wall of swords.

But in exchange, we gain vampirism, mind control, and berserk. The only useful summoning spell in the finale is heavenly shield, but even that is depleted in 2-3 hits given such army volumes — compare that with the effect of vampirism and mind control. I won't even mention the phoenix — in the 4th-5th month, it's a pitiful gimmick that achieves nothing — and the enemy hero can take "deathly cold" from chaos, hit with a ring of frost, and nothing will remain of the phoenix, and others will be hit too... This isn't the 3rd week of the game. Any number of phantoms is extinguished by armageddon. And thanks to mass darkness, the hero, among other things, also acts more frequently.

Next. Mind control and vampirism are mentioned. It's not a fact that they will be in the guild, or there will be either mind control or vampirism if the second castle doesn't have the guild of darkness magic. What to do?

I probably misunderstood. Are we talking about the lands of outcasts, or a map where there are NO utopias AT ALL (in which all necessary spells are always found within 4 months), second castles, and libraries? But then what kind of late-game map is that? Heavenly shield also doesn't drop 100% in the castle, nor does wall of swords — some damn earthquake will drop instead, and that's it.

Third. Anti-magic is usually used against mind control.

Yes, such a practice exists. But will they really be able to instantly dispel both bears and jarls before they move under mind control? And the hero still has vampirism. He might not even cast mind control (I only use this against orcs in extreme cases), but will cast vampirism on another unit — then what? Anti-magic, by the way, is from light. Light, like darkness, implies mass spells. Firstly, there will be no time for anti-magic (since there is still divine vengeance), secondly, all positive light buffs will also be removed from the creature. Or are you suggesting 2 magics — light and chaos? But then how will they find time to hit with armageddon?

Fourth. No one also considered that the dwarf can also take chaos magic and cast armageddon a bit.

So, let's do some practical calculations:
The main striking-surviving (i.e., those who usually remain until the end of the battle and hit significantly) force of the undead: 1800 skeletons under Orson = 12600 hp, 1000 zombies = 21000 hp, 75 harbingers = 7650 hp, 50 dragons = 8100 hp. The dwarf hits with armageddon for an average of 900 hp (with spellcasting 29 — it's exactly that on average). Suppose he has pyrokinesis. Fine, 1800 hp. How many times does the dwarf need to fire to cause significant damage? Correct, at least 2 times, even under pyrokinesis. And let's not forget that the undead hero doesn't just stand still, and in that time will apply all 4 debuffs (3 debuffs and mind control) to the dwarves, and the undead troops will already be fighting in close quarters with the weakened dwarven ones, of which there will definitely be 1/3 fewer.
And there are tools such as reflection, ice shield (although I almost never equip it even against a dwarf), and undead magic protection instead of distraction.

Okay, let's assume it's the final stage, month 5. The Necromancer has already amassed 4,000 skeletons (though I have no idea where he got that many) and decides to attack. First, we cast Subjugation on the Erlings; they attack once, and then Antimagic is immediately applied to them. The same situation occurs with the bears. We equip ourselves with Vampirism. The Dwarf uses the Magic Ward rune and Vampirism, and it's gone in an instant. What next?
Then, the Dwarf starts casting Armageddon. And it's not just about Pyromancy; it's about the Fire Lord's ability, which reduces defense by 50%. The Messengers are periodically attacked by Priests and Pikemen under the Thunderstorm rune, so they don't try to attack too often and remove the Antimagic.
Are the Dragons swarming? He immediately uses the Battle Fury rune.
Yes, and we shouldn't forget about the Resurrection rune.

In general, it would be better if you posted a replay for clarity, because it all looks too good in words.

P.S. I don't have a particular fondness for Dwarves, but I played with one person on these lands, tried many things, but he still managed to defeat me, albeit with significant losses. Later, I learned about his build. Let's just say the hero was Inga, but the options you presented are somewhat different from how he built his character.

P.P.S. Yes, and it should be noted that these lands are a very convenient map for the Necromancer because you can capture two castles relatively quickly. But what about maps where there's less "meat"?

Where there are few castles, there are many neutral creatures. Okay, I'll come in mid-August and post it. Even better – let's play online later – it's more interesting. My nickname is ArmageddonSword.

Hi everyone! I'm playing on the DragonHill map. It has many strong neutral creatures, and I'm aiming for level 29 + 4 wood + Dark Revelation, totaling level 34. The map is large, features a Dungeon, is completely symmetrical, and I'll describe my part. It includes a Utopia, a Pyramid, a couple of Sphinxes, a Witch's Lair, etc. (all resource buildings are present). There's also a shop with artifacts. Both opponents have one main castle and additional buildings that provide a bonus to each of their creatures. The game condition is not to attack for the first 6-7 months. Don't invade each other's zones. Meet in the center. For my hero, I decided on the following build: Combat Strength + Readiness + mass speed from Expert Combat. I'm confident I'll get all spells from every school. I decided to play as Ravenna (I'll remove her Chaos skill with the Mentor). Since her mass weakening skill will also reduce the opponent's defense by 11 (at level 33). I took Mentorship for my hero and bought all the Necropolis heroes. I have them running around not too far from me, constantly increasing their levels. For all additional heroes, I take Lord of the Dead and Expert Necromancy. That is, I started taking care of Dark Energy right from the beginning of the game. I try not to kill creatures that can be raised without using Dark Energy. I probably won't get the Amulet of Necromancy. My opponent is playing as Helmar and is going for Combat Strength + Light Magic + Attack. I'm taking the following creatures: 1) Altars. 2) Altars. 3) Altars. 4) Altars. 5) Standard. 6) Standard. 7) Altars. Proposed strategy: With Readiness, my entire army will be in defense. Use Liches to destroy the ammunition cart. Use Ghosts to steal ammunition from his mages. This way, after a few turns, all his ranged units will switch to melee attacks. Hero actions: Banshee Scream (Combat Strength), Mass Weakness, and then depending on the situation. Or Vampirism on someone, or Subjugation/Berserk, mass speed – I'm not even sure if it makes sense to use it when playing defensively, Disarming Ray + Weakness + Plague. In general, the idea is to debuff him and force him to attack me, as he also has Readiness. I will attack him with counterattacks and his own units. I only see a point in using Phantoms for summoning. Maybe they'll hit someone once. I'm waiting for your comments on my strategy. P.S. I'm taking Vampires as the third unit because of their Stun ability. P.P.S. The game version is 3.1.

A perfectly viable strategy – except for leveling up with a mentor, I do everything the same way – I just don't summon creatures or level up the central hero in long games if there's no mentor, as it's not always possible to level them up. The only thing is – Helmar is a complete weakling against tier 3 magic – that's too much, considering that he doesn't really need summons either.

There's only one question – why specifically upgrade dragons?