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Peter!
Time is short, so in a few words: "your hard work won't go to waste."
The fact that you organized a selection process in your situation deserves huge respect!
Let's say this: those who made it will have a separate quota in any future CIS tournament (whether it's based on enthusiasm or a real financial foundation) – the choice is theirs. At the same time, Dnipro still has a reserve selection process!... in my opinion, this is fair, and the organizers of the CIS tournament won't object :D
Now, about the financial aspect:
It all starts with intention.
Without it, nothing will happen.
And then reality puts everything in its place.
So, the intention is there!
I can dust off my old Sochi project: everything was developing dynamically there, but the partner wanted to make money off it (ON HEROES!!!). There's nothing wrong with that, but it showed a lack of ideological commitment, even though I was the one who had to do all the work – so I let him go.
Sochi was in 2014.
Perhaps a test run will happen even sooner.
I need to dust off the old documents ;)
Regarding the money, I repeat: don't draw conclusions without information.
You, Peter, don't have the information and can't have it, so all your statements about "balls" are absolutely unfounded.
There's a counter-argument to your sayings about the infamous "balls": "you count your chickens in the fall."
Good luck! :)
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"
Apparently, everyone in Krasnodar was on vacation, so they could take their time drafting the schedule. But we are taking days off for 1-2 days now, meaning it's a just-in-time system: collective arrival on the morning of the 1st, an intensive program, and collective departure on the evening of the 4th. Here, you can't drag things out by a day, or even half an hour past the limit. This requires much greater meticulousness in organizational matters and scheduling. If the train is at 6:00, then the result of the last round must be ready by 5:30 at the latest, money handed over on the fly, and the person thrown onto the train.
2 Wicc. We need to start on Saturday, April 30 - Round 1. May 1 (Sunday) - Round 2, May 2 (Monday - a day off due to the May 1 shift) - Round 3. These are official holidays. Surely some players and spectators will leave on Monday evening precisely because they work. They'll hang out for three days, socialize. In St. Petersburg and Krasnodar, I couldn't afford more than 3-4 days because of work. For contenders and advanced fans - May 3 and 4 - the finish of Round 4 and, if necessary, Round 5.
You brought up the example of the Michurinsk qualifier. Let me remind you how it happened: Stinger skipped Round 1, barely finished the last round with a taxi already waiting outside; he didn't lose a single game throughout the tournament, yet he took 3rd place. If the CIS Championship is such a shambles, I fear this will be the last such championship.
If you remember, Stinger was persuaded to come with great difficulty; initially, they were same-agreed to accept him just to socialize. He planned to play in Moscow and qualify there, using the tournament in Michurinsk as a warm-up. But class is permanent—even in "leisure mode," he qualified without any problems.
The fact that you call my tournaments a shambles greatly upsets me; I don't deserve this. I have no desire to open reports about your tournaments, look through them, and write whether it was a shambles there or not. Name some ideal tournaments for me—those that are much better than mine, those that aren't "shambolic" by your definition.
So don't puff out your chest, saying "I'm such an experienced organizer, therefore my opinion is the most correct and everyone else can go to hell." You organized other tournaments, with a different roster and different requirements. The CIS Championship differs from them quite substantially.
What other tournaments did I organize? What other roster? Let's count. Lekha, Mizrael, Scorp, PreDS, Vitalik, Yama-Dharma, Dust, Dirty, Horn, Vic, Napalm were my guests and played in my tournaments. That's 11 people. Bayazet, AlexGreat, Merlin, Term haven't visited me, but the way they support me certainly gives me strength—even just to avoid disappointing the players—to run everything properly. I don't know Poritsatel's opinion, but if a person is ready to come, then he likely supports it.
In other words, most either played in my tournaments or agree with the proposed program for the final.
Hello everyone! I'll come (about 90-95% chance), but I'll give my quota to Poritsatel or whoever is next in line from our qualifier, because although I've played some randoms lately, it only convinced me that I'm not competitive in them. I'll help the organizers and judges however I can. As for the topic raised, imho, the accommodation issue is secondary. Deadlines—yes, they are important, but with a normal approach to the matter, they can be met in any scenario. Who's stopping us from taking the save of a prolonged game from the club and finishing it on laptops in the hotel? Of course, it's more convenient to play there as well, but who can guarantee there won't be any glitches? This question also needs to be "ventilated" in advance + count laptops and cables so there are enough for everyone. If we play in a club, it's better to live in the city, preferably close to the club, to minimize travel time. Given the size of the city, it will likely be no more than 15 minutes. Losses from participants' irritability are usually an order of magnitude greater.
2 Horn. Sasha, thanks for coming; long time no see. There will be material about "the two" in the neighboring forum for "the two," there is a thread there as well. In principle, if you play "the two," one spot is still free—could you ask Mike or Kral? Although Kral is also a fixed player, Mike is one of the best random players in the country.
And about the sanatorium. Yes, we'll arrange a bus that takes us to the club in the city in the morning and picks us up back in the evening. That's for sure; I know entrepreneurs who deal with bus transportation.
Vova, go to the garden yourself. Essentially, three organizers held a showdown, and it's unclear why you stuck your two cents in here—you measure everyone by yourself and draw corresponding conclusions, while simultaneously being outraged that you weren't asked about something. Logic: 5 points.
2 Piterius. If the tournament fails, you won't be to blame, and neither will Vic. But I will be the one at fault for a reason.
In my understanding, reality is much simpler than what Eric and the guys supporting him are painting here. In his place, I would have done everything differently. Vic also suggests doing it differently. Yes, in this case, I'm judging by myself, but at the same time, I don't consider myself a role model. There are organizers heads and shoulders above me, so everything we're discussing is just trifles. And since the matter was resolved in such a crooked way, then apparently that's how the stars aligned, but just don't try to sell me this "reality isn't rubber" stuff.
Think what you want. I run it as best as I can. If there were such doubts about my abilities, they should have been trumpeted immediately. What happens is, if the tournament had been on the 6-9th—would I have suddenly become "good"?
Let's say 12 people come to the final; is that significantly more than at the qualifier in Dnepr? No. For CIS scales, even 16 isn't serious. Whoever can will come. In that case, I see no point in qualifiers. Everyone already knows roughly what level each person plays at. This farce about the "eliteness" of the tournament is no longer needed by anyone now, and even less so next year. If someone doesn't have the possibility to run a qualifier, then quotas should be given anyway to those who deserve them in the opinion of the majority of the finalists themselves.
I think we'll get 20 people. I really wanted to see Dirty. Cobra and Mee haven't written a refusal. No news from Napalm yet. And if there are no players from Ukraine, that would be wrong. Regarding Minsk, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I'd name players like Paladin, DSVasya, Skunks... but on the other, where are they all? It's been a long time since they've been heard of in Heroes; in poker, yes, they are. But we have active players playing... otherwise, what kind of tournament is it without Antal, Uncle Fyodor, Chaos, Dilvish? Legends who haven't played for four years already?
As for Stinger—that's a sore point. I also believe that it's not a championship without Tema.
I knew about this back in late January when Eric was arranging the club; I wrote about the possible need for a vote on dates, to which Eric replied that the club Management would likely be against May 6-9, but only now has the opposite come to light. It's a pity; if this info had been available earlier, I would have postponed the qualifier (at least because I went to games with a cut foot, which, by the way, still hasn't healed) or not held it at all, since as it turns out, few of us are ready to go on those dates. For the reason that I won't be going myself, accordingly, I'm not campaigning for anyone. This is already a question for Eric and the possibility for all other participants.
I'm sorry you got injured. Perhaps I really should have started working even earlier so you could find out everything sooner. Although I thought I had a buffer. Sorry.
6000r - Flight Ekb-Msk round trip 600r - Aeroexpress round trip 1400r - Train ticket Msk-Michurinsk round trip 5500r - 5 days accommodation in a hotel 800r - Club for 4 days 3000r - Food/drink, without alcohol 1000r - Other overhead expenses Total minimum estimate comes to 18300r! With base accommodation: 14500r!
2 Mee.
It seems we decided that we're staying in the sanatorium. Payment for 4 days, because on the last day, the fifth—we check out in the morning. Total 2000 rub, not 5500.
Food and other expenses depend on you. One can be full on 200 rubles a day here. I would do it this way—the club is large, I'd set up several tables. On them—groceries, sliced cheese from packages, sausage, cookies, meat, candies. Several thermoses with tea and coffee, lemonade. Possibly beer. Plastic cups and plates. Any player comes as needed, takes sandwiches, and snacks at the table.
Maybe the monetary aspect doesn't have the greatest importance personally for me, but I'm not planning to go alone. That is, the base costs less and in addition to everything, the base is much more convenient for conducting [the event] and combining it with relaxation, especially since a taxi is 50r—well, let's say from the base to the city is 150r, still pennies. And I have no desire to sit in a club for 4 days; I don't necessarily need to travel across half the country for that.
In the city, although it is small, there are all the entertainments found in any other Russian city. But in the sanatorium, 18 km from the city—there aren't. In poker, yes, it's convenient: you play at night, sleep all day, pop out to the cafeteria—and back to bed for night poker. But there's nowhere to walk or have fun.
In my time in government service, I wore out many of these sanatoriums. What infuriated me was the own-willfulness of the staff. Even if we gathered to play, some cleaning ladies would surely enter the conference hall and kick us out because it's time to mop the floor. Or a city doctor would be giving a lecture to medical staff, and they'd happily chase us away. And they don't give a damn about our opinion.
If you think that a sanatorium is the same as a small recreation base in Minsk, which would pray to players as their only clients, then unfortunately it is not. We don't have such small cottages.
Therefore, so that we are masters of the situation—accommodation in the sanatorium plus playing in the club—is the only option.
And overall, ideally, we would need the return of Alan Prost. Heroes were lucky to have such a world-class guy who ran tournaments. He managed to unite the entire same-heroic world back then. There are no others like him.
Overall, it would be ideal to bring Alan Prost back. The Heroes community was lucky to have such a prominent figure organizing Tournaments. He managed to unite the entire Heroes world back then. There's no one else like him.
Alan Prost invested his own considerable resources, earned in other areas, into his Tournaments. However, even with those resources, it wasn't enough to completely eliminate the expenses for players – although everyone understood the necessity of these expenses.
Moreover, the Chaos qualifiers in Krasnodar were organized in such a way that the winners received free travel, accommodation, and even basic meals. However, the top players in the Chaos League didn't participate in these qualifiers – a quota for them was agreed upon between Chaos and Alan – but they traveled to Krasnodar at their own expense.
So, regarding the ideal, Eric – it's unattainable in principle. But there are certain established standards regarding esports players and tournaments involving them. In the case of Heroes, these standards are not being met because there's no one willing to fund it – due to the game's shortcomings for viewers: its complexity and lack of appeal for newcomers, and its lengthy playtime. Commentary can partially compensate for these shortcomings, but a powerful sponsor is still needed. Where this sponsor will come from is another question... However, it clearly won't happen before the event in question, so it's not relevant right now. Therefore, thank you even more to Eric for making the best of what he has, and the quality of what he provides has always satisfied those who participate, and there are no complaints even among those who had to cancel their participation. And Yuri's complaints about canceling and other things are certainly beyond Eric's control, given his resources. I, for example, always planned my schedule to arrive with plenty of time and leave with plenty of time, whether it was Kyiv or Michurinsk. And those who want to participate successfully in the tournament and still make it to work – that's their problem, not the organizers'
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"
We talked to Eric, and the situation turned out to be slightly better than initially expected. He says there are convenient flights arriving in the morning on the 30th and departing late in the evening on the 4th (until 1 AM). He will post the train schedule later.
In other words, we will actually have not 3 full days + 2 half-days, but 5 full days. If that's the case, it's good news.
Sasha, thanks for coming, it's been a while. There will be material about the second game in the neighboring, second-game forum; there's a topic there too. In principle, if you play the second game, there's still one spot available; could you ask Mike or Kral? Although Kral is also a fix-player, Mike is one of the best random players in the country.
And about the sanatorium. Yes, we'll arrange a bus that will take people to the club in the city in the morning and pick them up in the evening. This is absolutely certain; I know entrepreneurs who are involved in bus transportation.
I played the second game in single-player mode, and that was ages ago. :smile15: Although, for fun, I might try if a pair is needed. I didn't understand about asking; who and about what? Let Vic decide the fate of the spots in our selection; he's the one running it. I don't know if Mike and Kral can go; I think Yura knows all the details. If we're playing at the club, what's the point of the sanatorium? As I understand it, it only made sense if we were playing there too. Or is it much cheaper than accommodation in the city center?
In general, ideally, we need Alan Probst to return. The Heroes community was lucky to have such a great guy who organized tournaments. He managed to unite the entire Heroes world back then. There's no one else like him.
"It's never the case that everything goes back to how it was" (c) Master. In my opinion, in the current situation, neither Alan, nor Lord Maniac, nor Dilvish with Chaos can restore Heroes to its former position. But we'll discuss this when we meet...
If you play in a club, what's the point of a resort? As I understand it, it only made sense if you played there too. Or is it much cheaper than housing within the city limits? .
You understand everything correctly, Alex. But unfortunately, Eric's ties to the club are too strong. :( :smile05:
To the organizers (whether you call them "org" or "ogre," it's all the same in essence). The event has already failed, so change the sign. And don't forget to warn the television crew. It would seem that it's simple to reschedule the event. But no, it turns out it's easier to get rid of the "undesirables." Instead of creating the maximum favorable conditions for the participants, which the organizers are obligated to do by the very fact of holding the championship, they create pseudo-obstacles. The participants should be the priority, and the organizers should only serve their interests. And definitely not the other way around. And, in general, it would have been good to ask initially whether the organizers are suitable for the participants. It is perfectly obvious that if the organizers cannot take into account the interests of the participating players (and there can be no talk of their own interests!), then it would be logical for them to acknowledge this fact and relieve themselves of the corresponding responsibilities, and even... propose another candidate. This is if the person is genuinely passionate about the "Heroes" theme and demonstrates true constructivism. But what happened, happened. Shame. The format of the May Kyiv tournament was the first and the last. May there be new tournaments: where everyone will care for everyone, without organizers - ogres.
The format of the May Kyiv tournament was the first and the last.
I don't understand – what's that supposed to mean? What does "first" mean? First in what?rebellious
This is if a person is genuinely passionate about the Heroes series and demonstrates true constructivism.
If a person is genuinely passionate about the Heroes series, they will primarily want to play Heroes, not just hang out and play cards. "True constructivism" – wow, that's a lot of pretentiousness...rebellious
It is perfectly obvious that if the organizers cannot take into account the interests of the participating players.
It is perfectly obvious (to any mammal, except you) that it is impossible for anyone to take into account the interests of absolutely everyone, due to the vast differences in priorities and different visions of what Heroes is at its core. Don't want to play at the club? We have a club championship... What will be the difference between it and any online game? Just that everyone will sit and drink together? What are your personal complaints – please state them factually and without pretentiousness. As I understand it, you are a finalist? Or a contender for the final? Or where?rebellious
The event has already failed, so change the sign. And don't forget to warn the television station.
It hasn't failed yet. But people like you are doing everything they can to make it fail (probably due to some personal selfish motives). Every organizer takes on certain obligations. If they fulfill them, they have succeeded. If they don't, they haven't. Is there reason to believe that the organizer is not fulfilling their obligations? Then, provide the facts! If there is no basis, keep quiet or don't troll here.rebellious
The participants are primary, and the organizers only serve their interests.
The reason for the announced event is primary. It sounds like "Club Championship of Heroes 3 - 2011". Club! Then come the participants. Why wouldn't each participant (even potential ones) write something? I'll speak for myself: I am satisfied with the proposed format of the Championship – the dates are fine (and I won't be happy with a postponement to a later date), I am happy with playing at the club (due to the special gaming atmosphere), and I am happy with staying at the sanatorium (if it is "suitable for living"). With the exception of the 2000 rubles fee – I will not pay it, as I do not intend to compete for the prize fund. I am against playing "on laptops" at the sanatorium: without strict rules, it will all turn into a casual gathering with drinking, even if it involves Heroes. And there will be a situation where one opponent will have to wait for the other to wake up. For me, there is a difference between playing poker in the kitchen and playing in a club tournament with a certain set of rules. By the way, about the rules – what are they? )))
Merlin, what does the club have to do with it? Rebellius clearly stated the deadlines, not a reluctance to play in the club, what are you talking about?
Message from rebellious The format of the May Kyiv tournament was the first and last.
I don't understand - what does this mean? First in what?
1st - this is for Rebellious. Many people realized after Kyiv that they spent all 4 days non-stop at the club, which wasn't ideal. They didn't have time to go for a walk and properly see Kyiv. Therefore, people who traveled 1000+ km were not thrilled. Although the qualifying tournament for Ukraine, which I held before that in November, seemed ideal to me. Even despite Beshi's antics :) Ukrainians didn't really need to see Kyiv. We had enough football then.
I don't understand why Nagan can't organize a tournament at a base in the Moscow region? It will be difficult for people to arrive in Michurinsk early in the morning on the 30th... Many will have to travel to Moscow, and then how much further to Michurinsk? Although, you can decide for yourselves whether anyone can leave work so early (almost one and a half to two working days).
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
I don't understand why Nagan can't organize a tournament at the base in the Moscow region? It will be difficult for people to arrive in Michurinsk early in the morning on the 30th... Many will have to travel to Moscow, and then how much further to Michurinsk? Although, you can decide for yourselves whether anyone can leave work that early (almost one and a half to two working days).
No Moscow, I demand that the championship be organized in Kemerovo!!! And move everything to August 4-8 - I happen to have a vacation planned then!!! And also... there should be a cottage with a sauna, and pretty girls - after intense games, you need to relax properly, otherwise it's a fail!!!
Added 19 minutes later Yes, I forgot to warn you right away!!! The situation is like this! My dad is definitely going to the garden on May 1st, he has to dig up the beds - it's been a tradition for him for 50 years! And if I don't go with him, and don't take him with the tomatoes in the car, and don't dig up a couple of beds, he won't consider me his son anymore! Do you understand!?
Therefore, move the Championship to May 129th, I can't do anything about it - there's no other option! You don't want the "CIS Championship 2011" to take place without its brightest and most magical representative from Siberia!
P.S. ...and by the way, I don't have money for the trip, so all the participants will have to chip in, a little bit each - it's not a big deal, right!? Otherwise, without Great Siberia, it will be like Ukraine at the very least! No, it's impossible without it... the tournament will be a flop, not a complete one... so... you know what I mean ;-)
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с) В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
wowa
