Skip to content

Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” Auto-translated

5.0 (1 rating)
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
#844
Auto-translated
The concept of "block" is quite flexible; one player might easily handle 50+ water elementals and say it's a shame there weren't 70, while another might find 30 to be an insurmountable task. It's a very debatable question, and there's nothing concrete that can be written down; it's better to decide on a case-by-case basis.


ICQ (559716573)

Стримы
http://ru.twitch.tv/romariogrom/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
#845
Auto-translated
So now a heap of Water Elementals isn't a blocker? Yes, I understand the opponent broke through and all that, but (judging by myself as an average player on HeroesWorld) a rather small percentage of players will be able to break through such a block on the first try. Plus, this is a very close battle; without such a lucky terrain and the presence of Haste, it would be very hard to avoid a wipe.
A player who sees such a block won't particularly try to outplay it; they'll just attack to confirm the fact.

P.S. It's funny — in Restoration of Erathia they fear a pack of Harpies, but in Armageddon's Blade they don't even respect a heap of Water Elementals :)
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

In reply to Сатир
User Avatar
#846
Auto-translated
It is precisely because of cases like these that I personally oppose having the blocking rule in seasonal games. It only creates headaches for the judges. But in tournaments, it's necessary. It should be clear who is who, where the block is, and where the expansion is.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
In reply to Master_A
User Avatar
#847
Auto-translated
Master_A
purely hypothetically, Horde 50-99
let Gomunguls try to be clever again and take down the Water Elementals to the max with the same army. good luck!

only Wicc is being clever...I’m just opening people’s eyes to reality)));)

Added 10 minutes later
Satyr
So now a horde of Water Elementals isn’t a block either? Yes, I understand, the opponent broke through and all that, but (judging by myself as an average player on HeroesWorld) a fairly small percentage of players will be able to break through such a block on the first try. Plus, this was a close fight — without such a lucky terrain and the presence of Water Elementals, it would be very hard to avoid a rout.
A player seeing such a block won’t bother to scheme much; they’ll just attack to state the fact.

P.S. Funny, in Armageddon’s Blade people fear a pack of upgraded Harpies, but in Shadow of Death they don’t even respect a horde of Water Elementals :)

When a tough fight is coming, you can always sacrifice a scout hero and check not only how much army is there but also what the terrain will be like...and then draw conclusions about the tactics...Water Elementals are not a problem at all...the main thing is to split the enemy stacks correctly...and then it’s easy+ in that situation there was also a ballista, which is basically free....the only thing to do is not to be afraid of such armies...
Удача любит подготовленных!!!





Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
#848
Auto-translated
Oelm
It should be clearly stated here who is who. Where is the base game and where is the expansion.
+1. Everything should be clearly and understandably described here. It is also necessary to clarify the amount of losses when breaking through a blockade. That is, you can break through by losing troops, or you can end up with 5 demons after the battle, which may not always be a good idea to continue with. And what to do if someone lost their army, but could have played better?
In reply to Dirty_Player
User Avatar
#849
Auto-translated
For example, surrender).
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
In reply to Oelm
#850
Auto-translated
It is impossible to come up with a specific definition of a block that would be objectively applicable in any situation. Therefore, I suggest providing a general formulation such as: "A block that prevents a full game from being played" and relying on the common sense of the opponents; if they lack it, then on the common sense of the moderator. To minimize such problems, apply a restart due to a block only when there are no subjective reasons for a restart.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
In reply to Medium_HP
User Avatar
#851
Auto-translated
Medium_HP
To minimize such issues, use block restarts only when subjective restarts are not available.
Yeah, that's why I consider a block restart a type of humanitarian restart, so I rarely complain about it.

But if it were used when subjective restarts were available, I would check each episode.
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
#852
Auto-translated
Medium_HP
It is impossible to come up with a specific definition of a block that will be objectively applicable in any situation. Therefore, I suggest giving a general formulation like: "A block that prevents playing a full game" and rely on the common sense of opponents; if they lack it, then on the common sense of the host. To avoid such problems less often, apply a restart due to a block only when there are no subjective restarts available.
But I did write this:
Restart for a strong block, if the block cannot be bypassed and the block cuts off the Castle from the main part of the respawn area, leaving no opportunity for development until the block. It applies up to level 112 inclusive.
The strength of the block is primarily assessed by the player who reported the block, then by his opponent, and if there is a dispute between the players - by the host/judge/AC.
If subjective restarts remain, then a subjective restart is used at the choice of the player (i.e., if 112 is available, you can use the remaining restart 111).
If subjective restarts run out, the player has the right to request an additional restart.
---------------------------------------
I will add what we discussed about restarts to the first post. We can write in more detail about considering controversial situations with blocks in Section V. Non-standard and Controversial Situations. Judging.
---------------------------------------
Comments and generalizations on Section II (continued).
5.7. It is forbidden to take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, artifacts, or visit various objects from under a shifted guard without killing the guard. It is not allowed to visit objects, take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, or artifacts using the "Flight", "Dimension Door" spells, or with Angel Wings, without defeating the corresponding guard. Chests, campfires, and resources can be taken both with the help of the above spells and wings, and from under a shifted guard.
The Border Guard is equated to the object's guard, and it is impossible to take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, artifacts, or visit various objects behind the guard without visiting the corresponding tent and removing the guard.
No one spoke out against the proposed clarification; we accept it.
--------------------------------------
Regarding Galtaran, opinions were almost evenly divided: some players are in favor of a random starting hero, others are in favor of choosing, but without Galtaran. However, playing randomly for Necromancer will be difficult; there are too many weak heroes there who are limited by restrictions. Therefore, I suggest making the start for the winter season as in Favorites, then we will discuss it again.
5.8. Restrictions on Castles.
5.8.1. In the Conflux Castle, upgrading monsters to levels 1, 6, and 7 is prohibited.
When playing as Conflux, the starting hero is chosen randomly when generating the map.
5.8.2. In the Necropolis Castle, building an antimagic field generator is prohibited.
When playing as Necropolis, selecting Galtaran as the starting hero is prohibited. If Galtaran comes not as a starting hero, you CAN develop him, even for any Castle.
And here's another suggestion:
RomarioGrom

5.16. In the Conflux Castle, upgrading monsters to level 1, 6, and 7 is prohibited (it is allowed to upgrade to level 1 and 6 if these are the last buildings in the Castle).
In my opinion, there is no point in introducing a rule that no one will use anyway.
Kluka
PS. Did anyone think about banning the construction of Dark Veil in the Necropolis?
I didn't think so. I like Dark Veil.
-----------------------------------
c) If any of your heroes receive the corresponding spell in a Pandora's Box, pyramid, after visiting a scholar, or in a magic book (even if this hero does not have enough wisdom skill to learn this spell).
pHOMM
There is no level 4 in the pyramid; therefore, it must be removed from the list.
Thank you, I did not notice; I will remove it.
----------------------------------
Of course, the discussion about the Mercenary Camp was interesting. The question was as follows:
5.13. It is permissible to buy and use any monsters in "mercenary camps."
Remove - it's obvious?
In my opinion, this is a completely useless rule. You can make several dozen such rules: it is allowed to visit the stables, it is allowed to enter the dragon utopia, it is allowed to pass an army along the chain, and many other things are allowed. Should all this be listed? In no rules have I seen that Mercenary Camps were prohibited. And what is not prohibited is permitted. But some players for some reason decided that I want to ban it :confused:
Maybe we should still remove this rule?
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
#853
Auto-translated
On the small map template, the Galthran suggestion looks good (it can't be chosen as a starting faction). But on the XL templates, I think the start should only be random, and preferably with a Galthran ban. On Panic and Balance, I suggest banning Necromancy altogether, as it's always the best development option on those templates due to their specific features, often leaving the opponent with no chance.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
#854
Auto-translated
Oelm
On the scenario template, the suggestion regarding Galtran looks good (it cannot be chosen as a starting hero).
Yes, the discussed section II of the rules applies to scenarios. Let's finalize it, and then we will deal with other templates (section III).
I am collecting all opinions for now.
In reply to Yakudza
User Avatar
#855
Auto-translated
117 seems like a lot, 115-116-116 would be ideal. Still, 117 is the best option for the Russian team.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
#856
Auto-translated
I also disagree with restarting the game at turn 117. This way, everyone will rush to get a free regeneration, and I find such restarts frustrating.
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

In reply to Сатир
User Avatar
#857
Auto-translated
Rest 114 is much more viable against a flawed GO/flawed GO – especially when there’s a path through a secondary location to the opponent’s respawn point/!!! All other numbers are for calculating a cheap restart. P.S.: Just some thoughts, since I don’t play the seasonal mode, but for fun, you can always agree on something.
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
#858
Auto-translated
I have incorporated the discussed changes into the first post. Please take a look.
Proposed changes to the rules are highlighted in red, as well as points that need to be discussed.
Points proposed for implementation during one winter season (09-10), with voting to be held in February, are highlighted in purple.
------------------------------------------
It is forbidden to take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, artifacts from under shifted guards or visit various locations without killing the guard first. It is not allowed to visit locations, take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, or artifacts using "Flight," "Dimension Door" spells, or with Angel Wings, without defeating the corresponding guard first.
shadow of the homeless
common sense tells me that this means:
It is forbidden to take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, artifacts from under shifted guards or visit various locations without killing the GUARD OF THAT LOCATION FIRST.
but on the other hand, if that's how it is, why isn't it written like that?
that is, can I take, say, the Book of Fire, and KILL THE GUARD OF THIS BOOK WITH IT?
Sorry, maybe I don't understand obvious things, but it seems to me that Great and Mighty could be written more clearly...
The guard might also run away... Let's write it like this:
5.7. It is forbidden to take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, artifacts from under shifted guards or visit various locations without eliminating the guard beforehand. It is not allowed to visit locations, take Pandora's Boxes, scrolls, or artifacts using "Flight," "Dimension Door" spells, or with Angel Wings, without eliminating the corresponding guard beforehand.

------------------------------------------
scorp
rest 114 is much more playable against a buggy GO/buggy GO - when there is a passage through the secondary path to the opponent's respawn point/!!! all other numbers are for calculating a cheap restart.
Differentiation has been introduced based on fast-medium-slow paths. We will continue discussing it. A vote can be held.

------------------------------------------------
scorp
P.S.: just thinking out loud, since I don't play in the season, but you can always agree on fun things anyway.
Most tournaments use general rules; it's difficult for organizers to discuss many small changes each time, and players don't like reading special rules; they remember the season well.
Therefore, I kindly request that tournament organizers express their opinions more actively.

Now, regarding hit-and-run. We will not cancel the ban on it.
Opinions:
Regarding hit-and-run, I think we should remove this rule altogether... retreating in the first or second round isn't so important anymore...
Wow, not important... After shock magic, followed by mass haste or mass slow, the attacking player might not even reach the second round. And allowing hit-and-run is impossible.
Against hit-and-run... Moreover ... after any cast. definitely against hit-and-run.
The existing rule:
Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero may not retreat in the first round of combat if he has used battle magic or any other magic that inflicts damage on the opponent in any way. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.
allows for various interpretations, is difficult for players to understand, and is cumbersome for judging. Therefore, it needs to be changed давно.

About a year and a half ago, Wicc suggested another formulation:
Wicc
Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero may not retreat in the first round of combat if he has used direct action battle magic that damages the opponent. It is permissible to inflict damage on oneself (e.g., to reduce ransom costs). If there is resistance to magic, no damage occurs; therefore, retreating is also allowed. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.
There was heated discussion about it in winter; I can't find where, as real didn't let me follow the forum at the time. I don't know how it ended.

Then, they voted in AK for the following formulation:
Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero may not retreat in the first round of combat if he uses any magic. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.
I don't know why the changes weren't made then.

Now, Dubrovin Pavel suggested another formulation:
Dubrovin Pavel
Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero may not retreat in the first round of combat if he uses magic that degrades the opponent's position in any way. It is permissible to inflict damage on oneself (e.g., to reduce ransom costs). With resistance, the attacking hero may retreat in the first round. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.
And Wicc rightly noted:
Wicc
...let's take the hit-and-run point. In the next version of VT, there will be ... - a ban on fleeing/paying ransom for the attacking player who cast magic in the 1st turn.
A similar rule should be introduced into the Hive rules.... The simpler the restriction, the better.

Summarizing the discussion, I propose adopting the simplest and most understandable formulation from all those proposed:
Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero may not retreat in the first round of combat if he casts any magic. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.
If anyone strongly opposes this formulation, please let me know, and I will create a poll.