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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”
We're talking about the block near the castle. That is, you can't even leave, or you can only move a very short distance. And 60-70 Lizards on the first map are only killed in exceptional cases, with Mass Haste or Minor Constriction...
Or if you're Shakti... And in general, if you really need to, you can upgrade to Bog Flies, or Pegasus for the Rampart. And so on. They can be defeated. I agree about specifically indicating what constitutes a block and what doesn't (i.e., specific monsters and their numbers). However, there's also a nuance here: the army of three starting heroes varies greatly and can also affect whether you can break through, partially lose, or completely lose.
ВОИН КЛАНА "РЫЦАРИ АПОКАЛИПСИСА" Никогда не теряйте концентрации, даже если абсолютно уверены в своей победе: секундная расслабленность, и триумф обернётся горьким поражением. "Любой filowandel запросто станет Neverminder-ом, если захочет". Kash.
In my opinion, a strong block should consist of bows starting from level 2, with a quantity of over 50, and monsters from level 3 and higher, with a quantity of 35 or more... A block is a block because it prevents a player from passing it on the first attempt, and the arrangement also plays a significant role (for example, in SoD, having 2 native heroes, nymphs, etc.). There should be one rule, and even if it's strict, it will prevent the need for constant adjustments and fixes.
Has there ever been any debate about this block? I personally don't remember any. Why complicate things with specific wording? Such questions should be resolved through discussion – what is an impenetrable block for one Castle might be insignificant for another.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
Of course, this refers to a strong block; it has happened many times, for example, when the guards of powerful objects block the only passage (road), such as the guards of Dragon Utopia, hives, etc. In such cases, imho, it should be a mandatory rest. However, in cases where there is a block that can cause significant losses but is not "strong," this should be left to the players' agreement.
Regarding a single road in ГО, I have already mentioned several times: definitely a mandatory rest.
As for restarts, in theory, we could implement 111 and 112. Whoever doesn't like it can play however they want (without rests or according to old rests).
I believe the rest upon meeting should not be changed, but as for ГО off-road, it can be written this way: if one of the players wishes in this case, a tech rest.
By the way, I completely agree with one of the opinions mentioned above, that a restart should only be granted after all available restarts on turn 111 or 113 (112) have been used. Recently, in one game, my opponent said that he had a block (marksmen, and not many, 30 or 40) and asked for a restart due to the block. Even though he still had restarts available, he said, "Well, just so I don't waste them."
ВОИН КЛАНА "РЫЦАРИ АПОКАЛИПСИСА" Никогда не теряйте концентрации, даже если абсолютно уверены в своей победе: секундная расслабленность, и триумф обернётся горьким поражением. "Любой filowandel запросто станет Neverminder-ом, если захочет". Kash.
What is the upgrade level of the flies there? I am talking about a block that prevents you from leaving the Castle
Ayman
Of course, I mean a strong block; it has happened many times, for example, when guards of own powerful objects block the only passage (road), such as the guards of the Dragon Utopia, Hive, etc.
It seems we couldn't agree on which block is being discussed. Option 1 - the block cuts off the Castle from the main part of the respawn, leaving no possibility for development before reaching the block Option 2 - the main part of the respawn is connected to the Castle, but the block prevents you from leaving the respawn I meant the second option.
By the way, I completely agree with one of the opinions mentioned above: a restart should only be granted after all available restarts on 111 or 113 (112) have been used. Otherwise, recently in one game, my opponent said that he had a block (marksmen, and not many, 30 or 40) and asked for a restart due to the block. Even though he still had restarts left, he said: "Well, just so as not to waste them."
I remember this case and want to say that we were playing even before reports were introduced. Secondly, it's your decision whether to grant a save or not. And thirdly, I don't recall ever refusing you a save in any of our games. If it were a tournament, I wouldn't even think about asking for a save.
Neverminder
Listen, in this thread (/topic/3960/), Kash explained back in February that GO must always be attacked if it is moved. That is, according to the rules, you cannot reach your opponent on the second day through a moved GO. But if it stands on the road, and before acquiring Dimension Door/flight/wings, you cannot bypass the GO directly to reach your opponent, then later you can choose not to attack it. Don't you read the reports? Dozens of matches here have been won without attacking the GO (code name for the maneuver: DD-GG). This also surprised me at first, but then I found the aforementioned topic and realized that the GO does not need to be attacked. As Kash rightly noted, we are beginners, and due to lack of experience, we haven't encountered situations in our games where an opponent didn't attack the GO but flew over it or used Dimension Door. This has nothing to do with the new edition.
Regarding this, I will say that instead of reading reports, the rules should be made transparent and understandable, and everything should be reflected in them thoroughly so that any beginner can clearly understand the boundaries of what can and cannot be done in the game. Rules exist to be followed, and judges are there not to decide arbitrarily but to ensure that they are enforced and resolve all issues not by shouting and persuasion but by clear, well-defined points from the rules.
As for restarts, it is up to each player whether to take them or not. They are usually taken by weaker players, trying to somehow turn the situation around. But those who at least somewhat understand the game (I am not referring to recognized masters) take restarts when necessary. And important matches are played in tournaments, and weak players are rarely accepted there. So why do we need to impose restrictions on simple ranked games? After all, they are not really that important. Now many people are unhappy with the large number of restarts. Let's reduce them altogether, and then there will definitely be a lot of dissatisfied people because losing due to the generator playing tricks on a strong player is even more frustrating if you are playing against a demonstrably weaker opponent.
As for blocks, perhaps help from referees should indeed be sought if the opponents cannot agree.
And finally... The guard at the respawn point should always be attacked, except for Angel Wings. (Flight doesn't work). I'll explain my position: wings are an artifact, flight is a spell, and getting either one or the other is quite likely (Dragon Utopia, Guild, scroll, Pandora, and there are other options). If we strive to establish more or less equal conditions in the game, then flying over should be prohibited, but except for Angel Wings, since they are usually well-guarded, and to get them, you have to defeat someone strong. It's easier with flight. Also, the percentage of unexpected arrivals needs to be reduced, and we need to move towards making players demonstrate skill rather than luck. Of course, there are many opinions, but I still think most will agree with me that the match is more interesting, and the joy of victory is greater when the outcome of the match is decided in the final battle, rather than, say, by capturing a castle unexpectedly and forcing the opponent to surrender.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
By the way, I completely agree with one of the opinions mentioned above, that a restart should only be granted after all available restarts on level 111 or 113 (112) have been used. Because recently, in one game, my opponent said that he had a block (marksmen, and not many, 30 or 40) and asked for a restart due to the block. Even though he still had restarts available, he said: "Well, just so I don't waste them."
It's also important to consider who gets this block – for example, Necropolis units die quickly, so for them, it's just a loss of a couple of snakes and some infantry.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:
Зима 2011-12.
КостяN
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Let there be THREE days in total for each player to use for rests, and no blocking, road-blocking to the Goblin Camp, or other such things. Everything else is humanitarian; there's no need to clutter the rules with this:smile18:. And Pasha (Dubrovin) is suggesting something strange: in addition to the extended standard 111 and 113, he also wants to include all variations with Goblin Camp and blocking:smile11:, which would take about 3.5-4 hours of rest time on average:smile04! ... Blocking and road-blocking to the Goblin Camp should be tracked during individual rest periods, instead of just blindly guessing:cool:. And instead of a rest period for the meeting, let's have a new game; in the first 2-3 days, with proper scouting, it's usually enough to understand whether an early meeting will happen and who it will benefit...
P.S. 70+ gold worth of Lizards, Sam-56 was able to break through in a game with me and Vistan on map 113, losing something like a few Gnolls, a couple of Lizards, and a few single units of Flies; learn from this, instead of complaining:smile25! But if the exit from the castle is actually blocked, and not just the respawn point, then it's really a test of the opponent's integrity, even in a tournament (if subjective rest periods have run out)... I haven't even seen the most cynical players use this on map 111:D; but if the opponent has surrendered within a week on their own initiative, and not out of desperation, then who is to blame, and a win on day 1 in such a case is a better preventative measure against surrendering than any auto-win. That's the way it is.
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)
Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
P.S. 70+ units of Sam-56 were able to break through my Vista's defense (level 113, if I remember correctly) in a game, losing only a few gnolls, a couple of lizardmen, and a few flies.
I don't believe it :) Although by level 113, you can already have a huge army, and we're talking about a block close to the exit from the castle. KostyaN
I haven't even seen particularly strong heroes at level 111:D
I believe guards at the respawn must always be fought through, except for Angel Wings (flight doesn't count). Let me explain my position. Wings are an artifact, flight is a spell; getting either one or the other is quite likely (Dragon Utopia, guild, scroll, Pandora, and there are other options). If we strive to establish more or less equal playing conditions, then flying over must be banned, except for wings, because they are usually well-guarded and you need to defeat someone strong to get them. It's easier with flight. Also, the percentage of unexpected arrivals needs to be reduced, moving more toward players demonstrating skill rather than luck.
Flight, by the way, is obtained in the Book of Air, which is guarded just as much as Wings are:rolleyes: ... And Wings are naturally still better than the Flight spell, as they require no skills and cost no mana (and those same 20 units could be very decisive in a FB!). So this is a very subjective and confusing opinion... What, if there were an artifact for 4 DDs (some kind of Spring Boots), then according to your logic, they could be used to the fullest, but using the DD spell in the same quantities would be a no-go?..:rolleyes:
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)
Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
As I see it, for tournament games, it might be possible to allow additional restarts per block or per path to the Guardian of the Orb. However, in a season, this would lead to a flood of questions like, "Are 40 marksmen a block, or not?" and "What portion of the respawn area do they block – a large portion or not?" Or, for example, neutral creatures that can now be cleared at level 114, but couldn't be cleared before – is that also considered a block?
Flight, by the way, is obtained in the Book of Air, which is guarded the same as Wings:rolleyes: ... And Wings are naturally still better than the Flight spell, as they require no skills and no mana cost (and those same 20 mana points can oh-so-decide things in FB!). So it's a very subjective and unclear opinion... What, if there were an artifact for 4 DDs (Boots of Springing or something), then by your logic - you could use them to the fullest, but the DD spell in the same amounts - no-no?..:rolleyes:
My opinion is written above, and you don't need to read things into it. It's not even appropriate to speculate about springs. We are talking about what exists, not what could be. Therefore, DD is in its own way the one and only unique spell.
Added after 22 minutes KostyaN
Flight, by the way, is obtained in the Book of Air, which is guarded the same as Wings:rolleyes: ... And Wings are naturally still better than the Flight spell, as they require no skills and no mana cost (and those same 20 mana points can oh-so-decide things in FB!). So it's a very subjective and unclear opinion... What, if there were an artifact for 4 DDs (Boots of Springing or something), then by your logic - you could use them to the fullest, but the DD spell in the same amounts - no-no?..:rolleyes:
And I also want to add. If in Conflux you can't upgrade 1,6,7, and in Necropolis there's an amplifier, then what's so funny about not allowing a Flight-based respawn transition? If they want to equalize forces and remove imbalance, then it turns into total freebie with Wings+Flight+DD+your springs. The whole game would come down to that. So I think you need to play, honing your skill in battles and gaining experience, rather than flying through ГО. Above, you praise sem_56 for taking out 70+ lizards at 113 because that is a display of skill, not all those flights. One set of Wings is enough. And their value increases, and the probability of cheap victories decreases. It's forbidden to use DD more than once a day; with the same success, Town Portal could have been limited (which I wouldn't argue with). So I propose to forbid flying over to respawns with Flight where at least one guard is not broken through. If you've broken through from any side, then please, fly in as much as you want.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
