Posts from Orcs vs. Humans

and wasting a skill point on spellcasting for humans :)))) that's complete nonsense... maybe it's useful on a small map... but on a large map... it's a wasted skill... usually, on large maps, there are fountains, and you can get up to 20 spells... and that's enough... and the fact that your hero will move one turn earlier won't make a difference... especially for Orcs.

I completely agree with the last post.

I believe that for an Orc, a buffed light spell can sometimes be scarier than a dark spell. A debuff on dark spells is more effective than a debuff on light spells. Here's why: dark spells have an effect if they last for an average of 5-8 rounds (therefore, a debuff on dark spells will have a greater impact on the outcome of the battle), while light spells only need 2-3 rounds to destroy a good half of the Orc's stacks (and here, the spellcasting stat of a hero from Haven is not that important). Therefore, a debuff on light spells is rarely used.

What are these light spells that destroy half of the orc stacks in 2-3 rounds? Can someone explain?

Lordesat so what will you take if not anti-magic?
If not a placeholder, then I think luck and some reflecting items would be good...or does anyone else have any ideas?

Let's consider the option with skillfully applied buffs.

For example:
Mass Haste increases initiative by 30%.
Massive Smite adds +9 to attack.
Mass Stone Skin adds +9 to defense.

Lordesat so what will you take if not anti-darkness?
If not a placeholder, I think luck and some reflection skills would be good... or does anyone else have any ideas?

The only thing that can be used against darkness, as I've said many times, is magic resistance and goblin tricks. Only with this setup can you hope for something. But taking a darkness-nullifying skill in the late game is useless. It only works well up to level 20.
A light-nullifying skill in the late game is a better idea, but it works well, for example, against Divine Retribution. So, it's best for an Orc to go into the Sanctuary and take artifacts and skills that increase magic resistance, meaning luck is a must.

So, I decided to indulge in a little fantasy:
I'm playing as a Haven hero. It's late game. There's a mentor and a couple of artifact shops on the map!
I see the Staff of Sar-Iss in a shop, or on the map, and I immediately **buy** it (almost always a good choice) if there isn't a good weapon artifact available. And I notice that the Orc has Luck, which costs 7-8. From this, we can conclude that if we equip the staff, the Orc's reflection attacks won't be effective, and Darkness will always be applied, and the Orc will likely fall!
If the staff isn't available, no problem. We can still successfully cast Mass Slow and Haste spells.)))) But using Dominate and Berserk is quite risky... but at least we'll get Vampirism!))))
I find it hard to believe that in the late game, an Orc can withstand a tanky human faction with Darkness. Unless, of course, he has an initiative advantage, then it's possible.))))

In terms of weapon strength, an orc is superior to humans. And if you hope to defeat it without using Subdue or Berserk, the result will most likely disappoint you. Slowing and vampirism won't help here, because if the orc uses Chain Lightning, its melee units and cavalry will easily handle the situation. But if you have the Staff of Sar-Iss, as you correctly noted, the orc's magic resistance won't help, which means you can subdue and berserk it without much trouble. Then the orc will be in trouble.

I saw how Laslo, without dark magic, managed to deal with an orc of equal strength in a late-game scenario, even without spellcasting but with a pendant))(Tilshek)
It all comes down to initiative; if a player has artifacts that boost initiative, their units will move first!
And since Laslo doesn't train horses, the first move involves attacking the leaders (as they provide a speed boost).
The angels attack the centaurs, while the rest stand still and shoot arrows!
The horses are, of course, immediately taken down like tasty meat – there were 750 warmongers and 850 zealots!
In the end, the orc was left with only 35 cyclops and warmongers, but with the help of archangels, the zealots managed to defeat them, although they suffered more than half their losses!
It all comes down to skill; even without dark magic, it's not easy to kill people, especially Laslo with his zealots!

I think that in the late game, Haven, without Subjugation and Berserk, will lose to the Orc, especially if the opponent is skilled. The chances are 10% for Haven and 90% for the Orc.

And what’s wrong with light, with its masses, divine retribution, and resurrection?

Mish-gan if a player has an advantage in initiative (which was the case here) + divine intervention + mass haste, then the chances are almost equal... maybe I watched a bad replay, but it seemed like both players were skilled at playing their respective factions:
1. The first player, playing Haven, is incredibly knowledgeable about the balance of the game.
2. The second player is playing Orc and specifically using Tilseck!
I think the odds are 45% - 55% in favor of the Orc!
Because if we don't consider the Darkness skill, we have a free skill point:
Either luck (although if you can get enough luck from artifacts, I don't think you need to take it), or if you have few artifacts, take soldier's luck to help!
Sharp Mind can also be useful, allowing you to cast a mass spell first and then go into battle! (mass stone skin will likely be a higher priority)

On the other hand, if the Orc has better artifacts, such as more dragon artifacts or an initiative ring, then it's bad for the Haven player who doesn't have Darkness!

I saw Laslo, without Dark Magic, dealing with an orc of equal strength in the late game, without Chain Lightning but with a pendant)))(Tilshek)

The pendant is certainly good, but compared to Chain Lightning, its effectiveness is lower. I would prefer Chain Lightning over the pendant. Also, there should be more orcs than humans, as their growth rate is higher. Of course, you need to consider the development of humans and orcs, and the skill level of the opponents. But if humans are without Dark Magic, I would bet on the orcs without hesitation. Someone here is talking about Light, but the orcs' Light Reduction works much better than Darkness Reduction.

It seems a bit one-sided when it comes to leveling up humans against orcs. It can't be that the only way to defeat an Orc is by leveling up dark skills. That sounds strange, at least. After all, the game provides many options for winning not only against a specific faction but also against a particular hero...
According to the respected Mish-gan, the confrontation between these factions is too straightforward.

P.S. Yes, I did mention that Light is better countered by Orcs. But not because the Light debuff works more effectively than the Dark debuff. It's all about the specific characteristics of the "Haven" faction. Specifically, the distribution of stats between primary and secondary hero parameters. Also, the "Dark Knight" can hinder the Orc when using the Dark debuff.