Posts from Round table

What is there to substantiate? In SoD, Shakti rarely has his own golden +150 Troglodytes, while in HotA, 100+ is guaranteed, just as in standard situations in SoD. It turns out to be practically the same thing, only with leveling and +25% HP on level 7, HotA Troglodytes will hit much harder than SoD ones, so they whip through like a charm!

You're explaining it wrong. In SoD, 2-3 stacks are not uncommon for Shakti, which is 120-160 Troglodytes. In HotA, 100+ is not guaranteed—the spread is roughly 85-115. Few people play with experience, and it doesn't build up immediately, just like level 7. But still, the stack is very piercing; for example, a min Griffin Conservatory or a Dragon Fly Hive at 6-8, a rare castle will take it with the starting army.

I put Rampart with Dungeon at 7th-8th place together with Rampart (maybe Tower somewhere nearby). Template Jebus Cross. Fire, try to justify:)

Not Fire, but I'll try to justify.

Rampart and Tower yes, are in the ass under these rules. But Dungeon is good - there's a good chance to grab an external dwelling of Dragons (its guard is crappy), easy to hit Dragon Fly Hives on week 1 (also crappy guard), and small cons. 100 Troglodytes are more than enough for this.

For most other castles, it's not so easy to take down the same Dragon Fly Hives on week 1. Maybe Galthran feels confident against them, but everyone else has one hassle or another, especially with Horde growths.

Say, Tyris goes through the map like a tank, but is afraid of Dragon Fly Hives - flies like to gnaw on wolves, you have to avoid taking them there, fight with the rest of the army + external dwellings. And often the maximum ones have to be left for week 2. All this slows down the tempo, complicates chains, and increases time expenditure, which is risky for Jebus. The ability to take Dragon Fly Hives on the fly without preparation is a very strong bonus on Jebus.

The power ranking of castles under the specified rules doesn't differ much from the standard one:
Fortress-Necro
Dungeon-Stronghold-Castle
Conflux-Inferno
Rampart-Tower

Further it's a matter of personal taste. Alex, for example, will be ready to play Dungeon against any other castle. And Expert considers Castle to be the strongest here.

The castle strength rating under the specified rules isn't much different from the standard one:
Fortress-Necro
Dungeon-Stronghold-Castle
Conflux-Inferno
Rampart-Tower

Inferno on Jebus Cross for me personally looks like a dark horse. The potential is huge IMHO, but I'm still hesitant to take it myself...
Whereas, for example, I value Rampart highly — I often play against both Conflux and Dungeon. IMHO an interesting castle on Jebus Cross.

as for me, Castle/Barbarian should be in the vanguard,
followed by Swamp/Necropolis/Inferno.

Here's my take:

The Dragon Castle's ability to have a dungeon nearby isn't a huge advantage on Jeb. Since you can't place dragons anywhere, even if you don't upgrade the Troglodytes. This means that all other Castles, when reaching level 7, become roughly comparable to it in this aspect. Upgrading them, however, is almost impossible without a significant loss of momentum.

If you can upgrade Angels from Conservatories, then I think the Castle is noticeably stronger. The main issue is money.

The Barbarian Castle is completely independent of the dungeon. It has 2 mega-units, creatures, and wolves + a bunch of goblins to counterattack. A couple of good defensive positions solve the problem of taking out the Hive. So, you get to the center earlier and have good upgrades. The Dungeon can only win due to its potential first-turn speed in battle.

Inferno vs. Dungeon – I don't know, based on Ignat's assessment, it should be at least as good, plus it has good attacking units at levels 3-7.

I think the Fortress is stronger, mainly because the birds can be placed on level 116 and have a large spawn rate. Strong units at levels 6-7 + a hero with logistics, which is very important for momentum.

Of course, you can get bad luck with any Castle, so you can't say that, for example, the Tower will always lose to the Swamp. But on average, I think it will turn out like this.

Castle is only good because of the Archangel strike stack; nothing else. Such dependence on one specific feature makes it unstable. Much depends on whether angel external dwellings are given (they aren't always, by the way), what cons are placed and exactly where. Clues are a pain again — angels are needed to open them. And you need quite a bit of gold for upgrades even for Jebus Cross; often on 121 you can't manage to upgrade them and have to go to Dragon Utopia for money. All this wastes precious tempo. Plus, you need to find antimagic quickly and level up any element to expert — without antimagic against a prepared opponent, even Archangels don't survive (Expert recently found out :) ).

Strong is good, but I wouldn't put it in the vanguard. Bears are good, but clearly not imba. Wolves too. Again, troubles with clues. So, it's a good stable castle, but clearly not top-tier.

Now, Swamp is just killer. Brogh's speed + a quickly assembled strike stack of wyverns solve everything. Easy in cons, clues, Dragon Utopia, and with ГО. A very convenient army that can achieve great things even with low-tier units. Plus, the acceleration from flies greatly speeds up resource gathering and chains for deep respawn clearing in the shortest time. Therefore, it's easy to maintain a high tempo; Swamp's exit is usually early and powerful. There is practically no hassle at any stage.

Necro is more of a pain to develop, but it's the most convenient castle for farming cons and hives on week 1. That's how it wins. With a lucky layout, it can start taking down Dragon Utopia as early as week 1, which is hard to do with other castles. But it's less stable than Swamp; it's easy to slip from high tempo to medium, and there's a stronger dependence on the layout and distances.

Rampart is mega-depressing. You can't rely on dragons, and there's nothing else. Maybe horses. But other castles have similar units. And shooters don't decide much on Jebus Cross.

Tavern is similar — focusing on shooters sucks. The only real chance is to find several giant external dwellings and quickly raise them to titans. But that rarely happens, and when it does, it's with a significant delay.

Flax is again a castle without a "thing." Development is slowish, no particular breakthrough power. But the troops and Moner are okay, and there's a chance to burn the opponent with Armageddon since there are as many as 4 stacks of immune troops. So it's not trash, but not exactly super either.

Regarding Inferno, there really isn't a clear opinion; it needs testing. However, at first glance, it's not obvious how to develop super-tempo. Cutting goats takes too long, and they don't decide things that much. Devils are good, but you need their external dwellings. You can't really farm cons with hives on week 1.

If I'm not mistaken, Forrest was in one of the parties with 8 Titans on level 122. :D

Regarding the Dungeon, here's how we can rephrase it: what can you use in a Dungeon to surprise your opponent on levels 121-122? 6-7 un-upgraded dragons. It doesn't seem very effective. Perhaps a large number of quickly summoned Imps.

Playing as Castle is enjoyable because even if you're late to take the center, you can still have good chances of winning. After all, initiative is key.

If I'm not mistaken, Forrest was in one of the games with 8 Titans on 122. :D

That's not particularly difficult, I think, on Jebus Cross — 2 external dwellings of Giants and that's it.

No, Valentin, it's quite challenging. Even with experience and a good resource base.

No, Valentin, it's quite difficult.

And what's so difficult about it? Just gather the money and resources lying around and take those spots? I doubt they were guarded by hordes of archangels :D

They were guarded well (10+ giants). And there weren't resources scattered around, like 30 of them lying on the road. For more details, contact Forrest.

They were guarded well (10+ giants).

10+ giants on Jebus will be taken down by several dozen players with Havens in 80-90% of cases. It's even easier to gather 30-50 thousand on level 122.

That's exactly the trouble: being late to move into the center usually leads to a throw. WT isn't SoD; the standard SoD same-day exit on 125-127 doesn't work here. Here, you need to move out on 121-122, 123 at the absolute latest, and even then it's risky. And that's assuming you've managed to clear everything valuable on your respawn beforehand.

Therefore, the ability to solve serious tasks as early as the 1st week becomes highly valuable. Not like Castle starting from 115, but already from 111-113. And then, on 121-122, use chains to finish off the remnants and hand them over to the "papa" who is ramping up before ГО.

Dungeon and Necro are strong in the first part—gathering goodies during the 1st week. If the gathering "clicks," you can build super tempo, even to the point of breaking through ГО on the 1st. Swamp is slightly weaker than this pair in that aspect (roughly equal to Strong and stronger than the others), but compensates with chain speed and the ease of using "loh" units to take everything including Dragon Utopia, as well as greater army power and "papa" speed.

With Castle, however, everything is much more modest. Usually, until 115, it's just gathering freebies and scouting, sometimes fights with small mobs. And only then does the ramp-up begin. In my memory, Castle (whether in my hands or the opponents') moved into the center at the earliest on 123, which is kind of late; the opponent might have already eaten up the entire center by that time.

Regarding reaching level 125-127, that's generally an exaggeration; you probably don't play SOD (Stronghold of Death) enough. It's too late for good castles. In the last SOD game, someone reached level 123 with Ivora. P.S. It's hard to match Forrest's results, but still. http://hmm3.first.org.ua/viewtopic.php?id=14&p=2 - reaching level 122 with a Castle.

I think he streamed the game against the Elephant.
He went out with 5 Archmages at level 122 – he could have gone with level 121, but then they might have overwhelmed him in the center without Mass Earth.