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Posts from Leaving Heroes of Might and Magic in protest of Alex’s removal from the Facebook group.
Regarding the topic at hand, yes, the decision is disappointing. Techport is undoubtedly a strong player, but disqualifying him from the tournament feels like "we tried to prove he was cheating, but we failed, so to avoid looking foolish, we decided to impose some kind of sanction."
That's exactly how it is. The decision is completely incomprehensible. By the way, as I understand it, there are 7 people on the Arbitration Committee? Can you announce the entire list? And who voted how? It would just be interesting for the community to know about its heroes. wowa
Alex has left, of course (i.e., the result is similar to the World Championship), and the other top players will follow, competition will decrease, and there will be less incentive to improve skills... perhaps it's time for me to leave too -- I'll just finish the matches I promised to play. My decision is not a demonstration; I don't consider myself a strong player. Voldu, I wish you all the best as a resource and thank you for developing our favorite game.
It seems that the members of the Arbitration Committee can't see beyond their own noses. Besides the fact that many people will simply leave the Hive, and the games on smaller maps will start again, Alex is unlikely to stream his games anymore. Who will lose out because of this? Surely not him? I think those who watch and learn will suffer. And regarding the decision, I think there is still a small chance that the Arbitration Committee will reconsider. Especially in the run-up to the CIS championship. We don't need any more division among the players. Yes, and regarding the swearing and insults. I think anyone who wasn't cheating would first try to explain their position normally, but after a week or a month of constant questioning and rehashing, they would react in a similar way, if not on the open forum, then in a private chat for sure.
wowa
16 years ago
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Damn, while I'm away, the security guard might be watching child pornography on my work computer – will I get in trouble for that if the morality police find out? ;)
The problem is that Cobra is Alex's friend – but he's a viewer, not a player. I don't understand why Alex is being punished specifically – was there actual abuse, or not?
bRitvo4kA
16 years ago
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AK will think it over and give another Champion of Champions to Cobra :D
That's exactly how it is. The decision is completely incomprehensible. By the way, as I understand it, there are 7 people on the Arbitration Committee? Can you announce the whole list? And who voted how? It's just interesting for the community to know about its heroes.
It seems that the members of the Arbitration Committee can't see beyond their own noses. Besides the fact that many people will simply leave the Hive, and the struggles for rating points will start again, Alex is unlikely to stream his games anymore. Who will lose out because of this? Surely not him? I think those who watch and learn will suffer. Well, regarding the decision. I think there is still a small chance that the Arbitration Committee will reconsider. Especially in the run-up to the CIS championship. We don't need any more division among the players. Yes, and regarding the swearing and insults. I think anyone who didn't cheat would first try to explain their position normally, but after a week or a month of constant questioning and rehashing, they would react in a similar way, if not on the open forum, then in a private chat for sure.
It's immediately clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. The list of the Arbitration Committee is posted in a prominent place. Who voted how is in the thread. Alex @ C are not gods; there are other strong players besides them. Regarding the swearing and insults, it's just Alex's style of communicating with those who don't admire his incredible skill. By the way, I haven't seen a single report from you in the last year and a half; your interest is completely unclear
AK will think it over and provide another cheat code for Cobra :D
yeah -- no one in AK has ever used cheat codes
a crime is considered committed if there are victims if we are watching a detective movie where a murder is SHOWN -- then let's put the actor in jail for it, and the director and producer for organizing it :D
all I'm asking from AK is to prove the fact of a crime or cheating; for me, it doesn't exist the public demonstration -- staged by Cobra (or does anyone have doubts about this?))))) is nothing more than a detective movie with a murder, which someone mistook for a report from the scene of the crime so who do we put in jail (even if only symbolically, with a loss of rights) for staging something that has absolutely no harm to anyone? (let's not count the overly sensitive moral viewers)
I still don't understand -- WHERE is the violation of the quoted rules, and no one has explained it to me, the simpleton.
Loi
16 years ago
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I believe that the AK made a difficult, but well-considered and, most importantly, fair decision (I presented my arguments during the discussion). I would only like to wish that the further debate does not turn into a mess and personal attacks... so that we don't forget that, ultimately, we are all made of the same stuff...
=Stinger=
16 years ago
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Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
Wlk777
Is your opinion that half of the people here are "losers"? If so, then go away, few will be upset. By the way, according to the forum rules, you should get points for this, but don't complain if they don't give them to you, saying that there's favoritism towards you and Bay. I communicate with many and know the general mood, believe me. I believe and hope :)
Wow, what a statement! So, the "losers" comment was written specifically to provoke a reaction from losers. As far as I can see, no one else was offended by this expression except you. There's nothing more to say here. You're talking about half the portal again, even though I asked you to only speak for yourself. That's one. I don't really care about the points. I haven't posted much here before because there was no need, but you're forcing me to. I can always find someone to play with, it's not about a specific resource. I only played one game with you, using the template you chose. And you were able to accept the defeat with dignity, even though it's sad. Sting was lucky with the Earth book again... But what did it decide? I didn't use any spells from it, I just took your capital on day 127 and you surrendered. What does the book have to do with it, explain?))) Maybe you just knew I had it, then it's a different conversation. That's two.
Now, Peterius. I wrote all this while sober. I still don't understand the point of these arguments, because I'm sure that Alex had nothing to do with revealing the game, he didn't cheat, and so on. Pete and I have had more disagreements over the years than anyone else, probably. But I have no doubt about his honesty. He shouldn't be held responsible for Cobra's actions. Removing him from the tournament is just a circus. It's not done that way. He can communicate with anyone as he pleases, that's his business, but I will never question his skill or his honesty. All the squabbles are about that. That's all I wanted to say.
That's exactly how it is. The decision is completely incomprehensible. By the way, as I understand it, there are 7 people on the committee? Can you announce the whole list? And who voted how? It's just interesting for the country to know about its heroes.
Easy. Personally, I (I don't know about others) am not ashamed of my words and actions.
Regarding the World Championship: For: Pit, Pasha, Scorp Against: LeBron, wbn, Mizrael, Me
Regarding the disqualification from the tournament: For: Pit, Pasha, Scorp, wbn, Me Against: Mizrael, LeBron
2wowa: Have you ever heard the term unsportsmanlike conduct?
=Stinger=
16 years ago
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2Van:
I only expressed my opinion on the situation; if it is perceived as a "corporate spirit," that's a problem of perception. What is the point of having a forum if it is considered shameful to say something that might contradict the opinion of the majority?
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
Added 5 minutes later
I only played one game with you, and you're writing that I'm always lucky. Either I'm stupid, or you're making things up. And I've written a hundred times that the SMC template is unbalanced, but you chose it and are now blaming my luck, and I don't like that.
KobRa_RR
16 years ago
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Stinger, don't you have anything better to do? Who are you arguing with? And AK did the right thing, they made a decision that wasn't 2 or 1.5. As respected colleagues have already pointed out, they should have chosen: either give TechLuz a disadvantage in the first game (or apply penalty points) or ban me from playing against him on Hv. However, it seems like it's all heading towards the point where no one will need to be banned. P.S. I can even publicly explain how and why everyone voted.
2wowa: Have you ever heard of the term unsportsmanlike conduct?
Whose? And are profanities directed at the referee considered as such? Then let's disqualify football players for the entire championship for swearing at the referee after he awards an unfair penalty (a red card is the maximum punishment in such a situation). Or, for example, a spectator (even if he's the coach's best friend) runs onto the field and grabs the ball – the opposing team gets a penalty, right? You can give stars to the security guards, you can disqualify the stadium, but why is the team suffering?
But I see the current situation like this... you are imposing sanctions on Alex as a player, or as the organizer of the broadcast, because of which all this fuss arose? But then, what does cheating have to do with it – have you proven it?
Lesgor
16 years ago
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=Stinger=
You, with your words, are deciding for the entire resource.
You should read what Alex was saying in the chat last night about this entire resource. Never mind that he ties his "heroic divinity" to it, but the fact that he clearly insulted specific individuals and the entire "Heroes" community of the resource, as well as people who have nothing to do with the tournament and have never even interacted with Alex, is evident. Year after year, Alex and Samurai show a brazen arrogance towards players from other resources. In all of this, they are supported by several other "bullsh*t fathers" - this is what your friendly unity is... It was especially amusing when Alex addressed those who were remaining neutral in the chat last night with the words: "So, are you with us?" Like, will you support us? I'm crying... Please, curb your pride!
2Van: I only expressed my opinion on the situation; if it's perceived as "corporate spirit," that's a problem of perception. What's the point of having a forum if it's considered shameful to say something that might contradict the opinion of the majority?
"Corporate spirit" was used here in a positive sense. If something similar were said to people I know in real life who play Heroes, I would definitely stand up for them. I don't know what happened, but there's no smoke without fire, and the fact that Alex was rightfully or wrongfully removed is on the conscience of AK, but that's no reason to leave the resource, especially by withdrawing from tournaments. In a civilized society, that's called blackmail (and I'm addressing this to Forrest). In short, that's all, and I'm not silencing anyone's mouth, nor do I belong to the majority:D.
You should have read what Alex was ranting about in the chat last night regarding this entire resource. Never mind that he ties his heroic "divinity" to it, but the fact that he clearly insulted specific individuals and the entire heroic community of the resource, as well as people who have nothing to do with the tournament and have never even interacted with Alex, is undeniable. Year after year, Alex and Samurai display an arrogant and presumptuous attitude towards players from other resources. They are supported in all of this by several other "tough guys" – and that's what your friendly unity is all about... I was particularly amused when Alex addressed those who were remaining neutral in the chat last night, saying: "So, are you with us?" Like, are you going to support us? I'm speechless... Please, curb your pride!
We're talking about different things. I've already written that I don't support Alex's communication style; if you're not too lazy to look, you'll find that we had verbal arguments about his speech even two years ago. And they still happen sometimes. But the point is different. He was essentially removed from the tournament for no reason. The accusations of cheating are again very dubious. I'm not defending his communication style, but I'm stating that he's not a cheater, but an honest and great player. How many times can I write this? Just accept it as a fact. Maybe he's a member of Al-Qaeda, so should he be removed from the tournament because of that?
The full wording of the Arbitration Committee’s decision:
Disqualification from the tournament for violating the rules of the game, disrespecting the opponent, and unacceptable behavior of a fan.
Also, to avoid similar situations in the future, the Arbitration Committee proposes to adopt the following amendment to the current rules /under discussion/:
No one, except the judge/tournament organizer or a member of the Arbitration Committee, has the right to open the save file of an unfinished game, and only in the event of a controversial situation in the game. If, at the moment a controversial situation arises that requires opening the save files, there is no connection with the judge/organizer/Arbitration Committee, the game must be interrupted and saved by both participants until contact with the judges is established.
We decided to end the discussion of the situation, as it no longer makes any sense. When we post our materials, even an elementary school student can write a plausible essay on the topic of "How I visited someone."
Those who are not closely following the topic may find Guest's explanations acceptable. I will make a detailed analysis on the Arbitration Committee website.
Wicc
Regarding the matter at hand, yes, the decision is disappointing. There is no doubt about the technical error in the game, but the disqualification from the tournament is like saying, "We tried to prove cheating, but we failed, so to avoid looking foolish, we decided to impose some kind of sanction."
For your information, in jurisprudence, there are only two options: either the defendant is guilty or not. There is no intermediate option. If guilty of cheating, then it is a clear case of cheating. If not, then it is a technical error in the game, due to the fact that Guest's knowledge of the situation may have influenced the outcome.
Why not a clear case of cheating? Any judge could have ruled that way and been right. We took into account the personality and authority of Alex and Cobra. Practically anyone else would have received a clear case of cheating.
Where did the punishment options come from? We do not have rules for such situations or for punishments (we would have them...). No one could have come up with this. It is not customary to interfere in other people's games, play for someone else, etc.
If we recognize this situation as normal, then after that no case of a game being given up, not saved, or cheating can be punished. It will be enough to find a friend/relative who says: "The player went to the bathroom, so I played for him."
The person who posts the result is responsible for the game from start to finish.
Wicc
Furthermore, rude behavior, in my opinion (and not only mine), is permissible in relation to anyone who accuses another of cheating without providing sufficient evidence. And it doesn't matter what status this person has - statuses come and go, but relationships remain.
KobRa_RR
Don't look there, look at yourselves!
Yes, I am convinced that half of those present are cheating in one way or another.
An example from real life.
A competition winner is caught doping. The result is annulled, and the athlete is disqualified for a certain period.
Regardless of how the doping got into the athlete's body: whether he bought pills for a headache at the pharmacy, whether the coach gave him vitamins, or the doctor gave him a cough syrup, or the competitors put something in his soup at dinner. There is a test result, so the athlete is responsible for it.
In our case, the situation is complicated by the fact that all this happens in virtual space.
Regarding the form. We discussed a lot about how to convey the decision to the forum. I don't like this form either.
There was a suggestion to simply post the Arbitration Committee's decision without explanation, and to have the moderators delete all comments on the forum. Would that be better? Suggest options, and if there is a good suggestion, we will gladly change the rules and act in accordance with them.
Personally, I am accused of eliminating a competitor. I judge in many tournaments, and I play in some of them, and absolutely any of my decisions can be interpreted in this way. For example, I award a victory in OFB-3. Obviously, with the intention of reducing the chances of the loser, who I don't like, to advance to the Final Battle. I realized a long time ago that judging and playing on the same resource are incompatible. Recently, I stopped signing up for our tournaments. Although, if you don't play, then there is not much interest in the resource.
