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Posts from Leaving Heroes of Might and Magic in protest of Alex’s removal from the Facebook group.
Stinger, no one mentioned anything about banning anyone before you. And, as far as I can tell, no one is attacking the resource itself. Moreover, I'll say this: I'm sure that if Alex were a less well-known player, he would have been penalized more severely, and there wouldn't have been so many arguments. And if you want respect for your community, start by learning to respect others and stop writing posts like the one you wrote earlier. Who are you to so rudely and offensively evaluate others and impose your opinion? If you don't need respect, and your close-knit group is enough for you, then please go your own way and leave this place. We'll survive, God knows.
Apparently, you're reading between the lines. Fine, let's not go far – reread Numwan's post on page 1. Who did I give evaluations to, and who did I impose my opinion on? Explain that to me. I only presented facts and expressed my opinion on the situation. But you, on the other hand, are making decisions for the entire resource with your phrases. If you haven't noticed, I don't participate in tournaments here, and I wasn't planning to join a team; I don't write reports unless asked, and I've behaved more than moderately until this situation. So, we'll survive, believe me
wowa
16 years ago
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I’m not a fighter at all (and I haven't even registered there yet).
Moreover, I believe that any categorical judgments are premature and lead to some losses – the question is whether these losses are justified. But no losses can compare with preserving personal integrity, ensuring that one's personal worldview aligns with what they do.
I asked for arguments regarding Alex's removal in the FB-2 thread. Currently, there was suspicion of unfair play, which has not been officially proven. So either prove it (like saying that Zmey brazenly lies, and Alex cannot win without cheating, or he is unsure of his abilities and needs it), and then ban him legally. Or provide an argument for why you are punishing him when there is no cheating (or rather, as far as I understand, you have already determined that it was a misunderstanding, right?).
So far, I haven't seen any arguments (maybe I'm blind, maybe I'm thinking wrong – so explain it in a way that I, an idiot, can understand!).
I am waiting for arguments. If they exist and are well-founded, I will support them. If they are controversial, I will continue to investigate for the benefit of all residents of Volda. I will perceive avoiding argumentation as arbitrariness.
And playing on a resource where arbitrariness is elevated to a virtue is truly disrespectful to oneself.
P.S.: The essence of my personal misunderstandings:
Here are the rules:
/topic/5950/
6. Fair Play
The most important point: players must play fairly and respect each other. It is forbidden to use cheat codes and all kinds of "bugs." Also, it is not allowed to open saves or reveal the map in the editor before the end of the game. The game is considered finished when one player has completely destroyed the other or one of them has surrendered, which must be confirmed via ICQ. Only after this is it permissible to open saves.
It is assumed that we act based on these rules.
Where does it say anything about spectators?
Let's assume I'm a spectator and have the technical ability to open a save file, which I do out of curiosity. In what way am I violating the spirit or even the letter of these rules?
Furthermore:
In what way is the player responsible if neither the spirit nor the letter of the rules has been violated?
The fact that a spectator can tell a player about the situation is just a fairy tale for idiots, even more so than me :D. You can cheat in much more environmentally friendly ways.
Therefore:
– Either the suspicions that Alex opened the save file himself have not been lifted, but even suspicion is not enough for a verdict; however, the very fact speaks of a complete misunderstanding of the essence of the game by those who suspect.
– Or the suspicions have been dropped, but there are some unclear consequences from the rules cited here, based on which you cannot execute him, but you can tie him up.
I would really like clarification, and it’s not even about Alex and his authority (although confidence in his lack of need for cheats is based precisely on him), but rather about the approach of local authorities to various life manifestations
The Bayevites have different things going on in their heads – some are into alcohol, others into showing off, but the fact remains that you, esteemed colleagues, have blown this out of proportion. From my perspective, it seems that people who don't like Alex have seized on this opportunity to heap as much dirt on him as possible.
But who, if I may ask, is throwing dirt at him here? The comments directed at Alex are more than restrained, which cannot be said about his own words. When a person resorts to swearing at complete strangers and behaves like some kind of arrogant deity, mentioning his own "greatness" in every post, there can be no talk of normal behavior. Let's face the facts: If Alex had taken the accusations seriously from the start and tried, together with Cobra, to sort everything out and explain it, the accusations would have subsided on their own, and he would have gotten off with a warning. But instead, one remains silent, and the other dismissively denies it, constantly referring to his own "authority."
The fact that the Bayevites (at least those who communicate on the forums) are arrogant is my personal observation (not all of them, of course. You, for example, are a player with a lot of experience, but you behave very modestly – it's a pleasure to chat and play with you). I can only describe this particular situation as a show. AK decided to disqualify Alex from the tournament (AK, note, also consists of respected people who have earned their authority over the years, but they don't shout about it), and the decision was not made out of thin air – the person was cheating just a few seconds after communicating in the chat. This is essentially a mortal sin in online Heroes. If someone were falsely accused here, or if dirt were being thrown, that would be one thing, but you are looking for a conspiracy where there is none. It's commendable that you trust each other so much, but these actions are simply incomprehensible to me.
Added after 9 minutes wowa
is there even a word about the viewers here? let's say I'm a viewer, and I have the technical ability to examine the save file, which I do to satisfy my curiosity.
Wowa, I'm sorry, but take off your rose-colored glasses. Based on your logic, a person can only be found guilty when they publicly admit it. But that will never happen; more likely, the guilty person will deny it in every possible way, and the more time passes, the more sophisticated the denial will be (I myself have encountered similar situations in real life). Therefore, again, based on your reasoning, it is impossible to prove cheating online. We will end up in this kind of dialogue: -Did you cheat? -No, what are you talking about! -But there is proof. -But that wasn't me; someone else did it.
Funny, isn't it?
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
Van
16 years ago
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Wow, things are really heating up. The corporate spirit of the Bai clan is enviable, but gentlemen, you have entered a foreign monastery and are imposing your own rules here, which is not good. The fact that Alex plays better than others does not give him the right to insult people, make personal attacks, and comment on other people's games in unflattering terms. Let's just say he got what he was asking for. Regarding the bias of the AK, there was an open vote for AK members, so distrust of the AK is distrust of the entire resource. If individual AK members are up to no good, it will come to light one way or another, and they will simply become outcasts on the resource. Regarding the Bai members leaving the resource, where will you go, gentlemen? Bai as a Heroes resource is dying, just like the Portal. The only resource in the Russian internet that is getting an infusion of fresh Heroes blood is HeroesWorld. Regular tournaments are held there, interest in the game is increasing, largely thanks to the same AK members. Therefore, I do not understand such passes and bows from comrade Forest and Stinger. You came to someone else's resource, play by its rules. You signed up for a tournament, be so kind as to finish it (unless there are other objective reasons). Then you can indulge your corporate spirit.
Punishment for unsportsmanlike conduct. Although I think a temporary ban in one game would have been enough...
That would have been the most sensible solution. What the AC decided was complete idiocy. Especially the circus with the discussion on an external resource with encrypted names, even though half the people immediately knew who they were talking about, and the other half could only guess. That is, even in the discussion of the situation, people were put in unequal conditions. In general, in this case, the AC created a complete mess. Sorry, but things need to be called by their names. In my opinion, in that game, a temporary ban should have been applied, and we should continue playing.
That would have been the wisest decision. What the AK did is complete idiocy. Especially the circus with the discussion on an external resource, with names encrypted, even though half the people immediately knew who they were talking about, and the other half only guessed. That is, even in the discussion of the situation, people were put in unequal conditions. In general, in this case, the AK created a complete mess. Sorry, but things need to be called by their names. My opinion is, in that game, those were the rules, and we continue playing.
Wow, things have really escalated here, the corporate spirit of the Bai guys is enviable, but gentlemen, you've come to someone else's monastery and are imposing your own rules here, which is not good. The fact that Alex plays better than others does not give him the right to insult people, make personal attacks, and comment on other people's games in unflattering terms. Let's just say he got what he was asking for. Regarding the bias of the AK, there was an open vote for AK members, so distrust of the AK is distrust of the entire resource. If individual AK members are playing dirty, it will come to light one way or another, and they will simply become outcasts on the resource. Regarding the Bai guys leaving the resource, where will you go, gentlemen? Bai, as a Heroes resource, is fading, just like Portal. The only resource in the Russian internet where fresh Heroes blood is being infused is HeroesWorld, regular tournaments are being held, interest in the game is increasing, and this is largely thanks to the members of the same AK. Therefore, these gestures and courtesies from comrade Forest and Stinger are not clear to me; you came to someone else's resource, play by its rules, if you signed up for a tournament, be so kind as to finish it (if there are no other objective reasons), and then indulge your corporate spirit.
I didn't want to write, but this post is already too much.... First of all, Bai and Portal will not fade, and you are greatly exaggerating the merits of HeroesWorld ;) And secondly, the decision of the respected AK is too absurd. If cheating is proven, then CMCH and goodbye, but if not, then why the hell are you disqualifying a person from the tournament :confused: , and if this continues, then HeroesWorld will fade much sooner than Portal and Bai (if they even fade at all :) ).....
A small question for Artem, aka Stinger.
What if, three years ago, during a similar situation, Alex had reacted the same way towards Starik, and what would have happened to Starik in general?
I'll answer for myself: if I were the organizer of any tournament, I would immediately disqualify a player if they allowed insults directed at me. And unfair play is irrelevant here.
But if that had happened 3 years ago, Alex would have said the same thing about Old Man, and what would have happened to the person who said it.
Well... first, Old Man would probably have explained in a rude way what he thinks about the offender and where his place is. Then, depending on the situation.
I'll answer for myself: if I were the organizer of any tournament, I would immediately disqualify the player if he allowed insults directed at me. And unfair play has nothing to do with it.
If a judge allows himself to be insulted, and for good reason, then this is a reason for the judge to resign due to insufficient professional competence, and not to wave a saber.
Regarding the topic at hand, yes, the decision is disappointing. Technical error in the game is undeniable, but disqualification from the tournament is like saying, "we tried to prove cheating, but we failed, so to avoid looking like fools, we decided to impose at least some kind of sanction."
For your information, in jurisprudence there are only 2 options - either the defendant is guilty, or he is not. There is no intermediate option. If guilty of cheating, then it's a disqualification. If not, then it's a technical error in the game, due to the fact that the Guest's knowledge of the situation could have influenced the result.
Furthermore, rude behavior, in my opinion (and not only mine), is permissible towards anyone who accuses another of cheating without providing sufficient evidence. And it doesn't matter what status this person has - statuses come and go, but relationships remain. So I understand Alex's reaction; I myself would not be shy about using strong language in such a situation.
in jurisprudence, there are only two options: either the defendant is guilty or not.
I remember there's an option: acquitted due to lack of evidence; I suppose there are other options as well; there are also systems with the presumption of guilt, and so on.
=Stinger=...Even knowing this fact about the Cobra map reveal, they would have continued playing. There are people for whom the result is important (I won't list them), but there are those for whom the process itself matters... Artem, what state were you in when you wrote this? What kind of f...ing "process" is it when you waste 10 hours on a game while the other side is just straight up mocking you? Fine if I didn't know about it, but here I see everything with my own eyes!
What does authority have to do with this? He earned it, good for him, no one is disputing that; we are talking about humanity. You can play with an open map among yourselves, even pay extra for it, it's your business, but trying to frame this as decent behavior based on own skill is, imho, completely out of place.
ps: Alex has a very telling post where he mocks people who go to work every day. Personally, that told me everything; an absolutely clear "psychotype". And I have no doubt that he will mock anyone at any opportunity. Is this your friend? I didn't know, I thought you had nothing in common. Before your post, I considered you Arch both in the game and in real life, but then you went and got mixed up in these squabbles. I am very surprised that YOU wrote all this. I especially liked the part about the jerks.
I didn't want to write, but this post is already too.... First of all, Bay and Portal won't die, and you're greatly exaggerating the merits of HeroesWorld ;) And secondly, it's a too ridiculous decision by esteemed AK — if cheating is proven, then it's a permaban and goodbye, but if not, then why the hell are you disqualifying a person from the tournament :confused:, and if this continues, then HeroesWorld will die much sooner than Portal and Bay (if they even die at all :) ).....
And I don't claim to be the ultimate authority; this is my perspective on things, plus there's the saying that every sandpiper praises its own swamp; but in general, everything has long turned into a farce, and some posts even reveal people from a new side, and these are grown adults :eek: — I'll continue watching as a spectator.
wowa
16 years ago
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the situation is clear.
based on the few (and unofficial, as they weren't publicly announced) statements, AK believes:
-- Alex was cheating (why he needed to do it is another question; the fact that Mikoga was putting pressure on him doesn't matter, because Alex doesn't have a brain; look how he argues in private messages and on forums; you don't need a brain to play Heroes).
-- Kobra is covering for him, so it will be difficult to prove the fact (that the cheating wasn't used in the final matches – but they knew about the conflict, so why risk it?).
-- something needs to be done – so we'll take some minor action and release a half-baked statement: even though we haven't announced the reasons for these sanctions, cheating is such a terrible thing, and this was blatant and open, even if unproven, so everyone will support us.
is that really how it all happened?
Alex has left (i.e., the result is similar to the World Championship of Champions), and the other top players will follow, competition will decrease, and there will be fewer people to improve skills against... perhaps it's time for me to leave too – I'll just finish the games I promised to play. My decision isn't a demonstration; I don't consider myself a strong player. Voldu, I wish you all the best and thank you for developing my favorite game.
p.s. after my previous post, something was written about the corporate nature of the Baevites. I repeat: I have absolutely nothing to do with Baev; I'm just looking at the situation from my own perspective, based on my understanding of the game and the people involved
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"
(с) Roger Zelazny
Van
16 years ago
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HAPPY EASTER to everyone! :smile16: I'm writing here because this is the most read section right now :D :D :D
bRitvo4kA
16 years ago
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It turned into a detective story that could have been resolved amicably with the opponent, but the mistake of streaming through Mikogo, where everything was put on display for the viewers, prevented that. I agree with the Arbitration Committee (AK) that the player should be responsible for all actions that occur on their computer during the game. Therefore, the AK rightly accused Alex of cheating in the game against NumOne (promised to save, allowed cheating on his computer, Cobra, etc.), and I believe they proved it. Championship points (CHMCH) are given to those who cheat; for dishonesty, they could have either been temporarily banned from the game or threatened with sanctions. Since the deception was made public, the AK chose a slightly harsher measure – disqualification from the tournament (so that others wouldn't be tempted). But again, I don't see anything dramatic in this; there are plenty of tournaments being held now; it's just a matter of time and desire.
