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Posts from Tactics for the Swamp (Fortress).

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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
Yes, using a hydra as a fairy requires some serious skill!:smile41: I was sure that after 1-2 hit-and-run attacks, it would be cornered and defeated, but these dwarves turned out to be quite gentlemanly)).
I'm not saying that Armor is a weak skill; I always prioritize it after Logistics, Earth Magic, Tactics, Offense, and Archery. Its advantage is that it always works, but its disadvantage is that it hardly works at all, unless it's a specialized build. Also, I never (and can't) focus on dealing and controlling damage; I prefer to break through with minimal losses, killing everyone on the first encounter and leaving (almost) no one for a counterattack – that's what I understand.
Perhaps the trick is that you need to level up (and find) two skills to significantly increase damage, while you only need one skill to reduce damage.
Ranged attacks, combined with playing as Tazar and the absence of Vistan in the tavern and lizard lairs on the map, don't make this the most obvious skill. Damage control is, in my opinion, a crucial part of the game; either it comes naturally, or you need to train yourself to do it in advance. Playing with any infantry unit requires a certain level of dedication or skill and experience. Playing with devils, hydras, cerberuses, and vampires is relatively simple; the main thing is not to forget about morale (the ideal option is an artifact that prevents positive morale). And, as I already wrote, to achieve high results, it is extremely interesting to test a quick battle involving hydras. If this aspect of the game is mastered at a high level, amazing things will happen in the second week of the game...

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
16 years ago
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Let me state this right away: I believe that achieving quick results, 3-10 times better than in any real-time scenario, is a bug, not justified by any balance (like, there's a chance to lose a hero - well, and when entering a code, there's a chance that you'll be targeted). Archers, of course, are only effective when defending a Castle/Rampart/Tower.

Damage control. Here's a situation: 2 groups of 20 * 5 HP = 100 HP each, with a damage range of 1.75. I attack, dealing 20 * (2..3.5) = 40..70 damage, the counterattack is (6..12) * (2..3.5) = 12..30, i.e., the range is already 2.5 times larger, and with armor, the counterattack will be 10..26, at first glance - it's not very effective. Therefore, I control losses only by avoiding attacks on combat stacks, which is done through attacks, offense, and archers. What am I missing?

By the way, a question: there's a stack of 100 zombies, 5 squares away from them is a dragonfly, and 8-10 squares away are 100 gnolls and 15 lizardmen. What is the probability that the zombies will not go for the gnolls?
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie

By the way, a question: there's a stack of 100 zombies, a dragonfly is 5 squares away from them, and 100 gnolls and 15 lizardmen are 8-10 squares away. What is the probability that the zombies will not go for the gnolls?
Neutrals ALWAYS go to the nearest stack if they can't reach any, options are only possible if the distance to several hero units is equal (I'll clarify again - this is ONLY for cases where they can't reach, when there is a choice of who to attack, the system is much more complex).
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie


Damage control. Here's the situation: 2 stacks of 20 units each, with 5 HP, damage spread of 1.75. I attack, dealing 20 * (2..3.5) = 40..70 damage, the counterattack is (6..12) * (2..3.5) = 12..30, so the spread is already 2.5 times greater. With armor, the counterattack will be 10..26, which, at first glance, is not very effective. Therefore, I control losses only by avoiding attacks on combat stacks, which is done through attacks, offense, and archery. What did I miss?
The following was overlooked.
When dealing with neutral creatures (I assume that's what we're talking about in this specific case), the situation should be different.
Stacks of 1-1-1-15 (the remaining units have died) against 20. One unit attacks, and it dies. The 20-unit stack moves and attacks the exposed unit. After that, the last unit attacks without retaliation, and the 15-unit stack joins in.
The general tactic for playing against neutral creatures: units to draw part of the stacks to the other flank, units to reduce the counterattack, and units as a target for weakened stacks (which are afraid of being overwhelmed by the main stack). At the same time, it is extremely desirable to take into account the possible morale and mechanically protect your main stack from neutral creatures that may have low morale.

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
In reply to zoog
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
Damage control. Here is the situation: 2 squads of 20*5HP=100HP, damage variance 1.75. I hit, dealing 20*(2..3.5)=40..70 damage, retaliation (6..12)*(2..3.5)=12..30, meaning the variance is already 2.5 times; with armor, retaliation will be 10..26, which to the naked eye is all the same. Therefore, I control losses only by eliminating hits on combat stacks, which is done via attack, offense, archery. What did I miss?
It's one thing when your troops are hit by 20 units with 5 hits each, for example troglodytes; armor savings of 30% are not significant (by the way, the formula there is more complex, but for simplicity)
And it's another thing when you are hit by 5 packs of 30 griffins,
here 30% is already very noticeable. Especially in castles, hives and Dragon Utopia, in objects where avoiding contact is impossible.
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
Damage control. Here's the situation: 2 units of 20*5 HP = 100 HP each, with a damage spread of 1.75. I attack, dealing 20*(2..3.5) = 40..70 damage, and the retaliation is (6..12)*(2..3.5) = 12..30, which is already a 2.5 times wider spread. With armor, the retaliation will be 10..26, which, at first glance, is not very effective. Therefore, I only control losses by avoiding attacks on combat stacks, which is done through attacks, offense, or archery. What am I missing?
Well, in your example, even 4 units of damage is quite good. If you assume 4 units of damage per battle and multiply it by the number of battles, you'll get a significant saving. In 30 battles, we'll save 120 HP, which is 24 gnolls! Who would say that's not much?

Let's consider another situation. We put a certain number of golems in a defensive position. With armor, they can withstand attacks from 3 stacks of griffons, but without armor, only from two, and the third flies into the center. Which scenario is preferable?

I'm not even talking about the fact that defense also protects against random morale drops, etc.

In general, all these phrases and numbers about damage control are nonsense! (Please forgive my directness.) Without practical confirmation, they are worth nothing.

P.S. Comparing armor to attack is like comparing an archangel to a black dragon – it's a sign of inexperience!
16 years ago
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Wlk777, in that scenario, the zombies are one hex short of reaching the unit you've positioned, and you want them to go after the flyers (usually, they don't chase flyers, but go for slower units/archers). Are there any useful tricks to achieve this?
Qwerty, that's exactly what I'm saying - the best defense is not needing one in the first place. However, when attacking a faster stack (most situations), the remaining units attack on the next turn - it's better, in my opinion, to reduce *their* damage by 30% than to receive 15% less damage from them on their turn.
I also use this tactic, but I often still take damage because I misjudge the behavior of the neutral creatures. For example, what conditions are needed for a remaining stack of about 10 fast level 3 monsters to attack a single unit instead of 50 gnolls?
Avern, I completely agree; I've already mentioned that when planning for a long, shall we say, "grind," defense takes priority.
Dirty_Player, we'll lose many more gnolls in those 30 battles, even though there will be some savings. But the losses will also increase due to the remaining strong monsters.
In general, all these phrases and numbers about damage control are nonsense! (Please forgive my frankness) Without practical confirmation, they are worth nothing.
, so you don't calculate anything in battle?
My simple logic is this: attack always works, while defense only works when you make a mistake and expose yourself, so I'm afraid of prolonged battles (perhaps I lose because of this). In general, defense is good for slow troops, which are more likely to take damage, while attack is good for fast, tactical, and ranged units (which many don't appreciate: "tanks"). Is that more accurate?

Thanks to everyone for the insights!
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
that's exactly what I'm saying — the best defense is having no need for it. And yet, when attacked by a faster stack (most situations), its remnants strike on the next turn — in my opinion, it's more profitable to reduce them by 30% than to receive 15% less from them on their turn.
The damage calculation formula there is more complex; 15% armor is no worse than 30% attack (the defense modifier is applied last) ФизМиг
Tootsie Pie
I've already written — when calculating for a long, excuse me, "soaking" process — defense takes priority.
In cons, hives, and Dragon Utopia, contact in the 1st round is unavoidable, and capturing these objects provides a significant boost to the game, one could say — a decisive one.
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
, i.e., you don't consider anything in battle?
My simple logic is this: attack always works, and defense only works when you engage and expose yourself, so I'm afraid of intense battles (and maybe I lose because of this). In general, defense is good for slow troops that get hit more often, and attack is for fast, tactical, and ranged units (which many don't appreciate: "tanks"). Is that more correct?
If there's a battle where only you are attacking, then I agree with you. But there are battles where we also need to take damage to capture an object sooner, rather than waiting an extra week to bring in reinforcements.

Added 18 minutes later
Tootsie Pie
attack always works, and defense only works when you engage and expose yourself
This is a very incorrect statement. Attack only works for melee units. It doesn't work when you have ranged units in your army, and playing as many factions is based on ranged combat. And defense works against both ranged and melee units.
16 years ago
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That's a very inaccurate statement. The attack only works on melee units. It doesn't work when you have ranged units in your army, and playing as many factions is based on ranged attacks. And the defense works against both ranged and melee units.
I meant the attack in general, as a concept. Avern, the damage is first multiplied by 1.3, then by 0.85 (not counting the attack-defense difference and luck), the result is 1.105, so I conclude that offense is more effective, if, of course, it is used. And if you add the 1.5 archer multiplier, armor becomes even less effective. I think it's a psychological effect; when a 4th-level swamp creature has an equivalent defense against weak neutrals in the 14 range, it personally impresses me.
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
Wlk777, the zombies can't reach the placed unit within 1 hex, but I want them to go towards the flyers (they usually don't chase flyers, they go for slow units/archers). Are there any useful tricks in such a setup?
Do you understand Russian well? :confused: I already wrote it to you in plain Russian - if the neutrals can't reach anyone, they ALWAYS go to the nearest unit, regardless of what kind of unit it is. Learn to read carefully what is written to you.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
16 years ago
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Wlk777, I automatically insert commas in likely places in messages on the forums (it's like Russians in Central Asia start speaking brokenly)((, I read your message incorrectly because of that... and neutrals rarely go to units that are only one cell away, to which they can't reach in one cell; they often rush to a group that is 2-3 hexes away - this is a fact for me. I play in Platinum 4.0.
Dirty_Player, thank you, I'll read it.
P.S. I read it. Offense is almost disabled with a large relative attack, and armor always works poorly)). IMHO, this is an obvious (although well-known) programming bug; according to the logic and descriptions in the game, you just need to multiply by 1.3, 0.85, and 1.5... although I don't take this into account:( I simply calculate +30% and -15%, even after reading the physics guide, because it's _difficult_ to perform complex calculations over several battles.
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16 years ago
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Tootsie Pie
neutrals rarely go to single units that are one cell away, instead they often rush towards a group that is 2-3 hexes away.
Of course. And the Volga River flows into the Pacific Ocean :D
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
16 years ago
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Wlk777, I've used this tactic in dozens, if not hundreds, of games, and it doesn't always work. I know how to count hexes. Which version are you playing?
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