Posts from Balance-2009

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It's already clear that Vic didn't like the Balance. But let's finish the tournament properly first, since we signed up – and then make public conclusions (even if this experience seemed negative to some). Constantly spreading negativity when the tournament is still ongoing is disrespectful to the participants and, first of all, to the organizers, especially to Avern, who is putting in a lot of effort and time and, in my opinion, is running this tournament admirably. Just look at the elephant he created! :) Let's keep a positive attitude, friends.

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I remember trying to play 8mm6 twice, and both times I got completely crushed by my opponent, plus I don't like playing against AI, so I rejected this build for a long time, but I don't shout about it to the fans of 8mm6. The conclusion is simple: if you don't want to, don't play. And why even sign up for a tournament with a build that you don't like?

A few thoughts on something else: two games in a match is too much, it drags out the tournament. We and Britvochka can't seem to finish the first one, there are always time conflicts, and then there's the second one, which could turn into a third - in my opinion, it's too much.

Well, everyone has the right to their opinion. I remember trying to play 8mm6 twice, and both times I got, to put it mildly, my ass handed to me against the opponent's chocolate

Getting a bad roll can happen on any template. The question is whether there is anything to compensate with. On 8mm6, necessary objects can be in neighboring zones, can be in treasures, and as a last resort you can escape to the AI to recover. Plus you can rush, or you can rest after an encounter. So there isn't such a strong dependence on the starting respawn, a layout with a small central respawn and several roads is not much worse than a corner fat-farm, it's just that the gameplay strategy there is different.

But on Balance, the starting respawn is the main asset. Plus rare conserves. Rushing and resting after an encounter are limited by the presence of ГО, which is much harder to bypass than on SM.

Apparently, this is why the Polish rules are so strange — not taking external dwellings, not taking cons/hives, etc. The game there boils down to collecting money and finding a normal dad, which is more balanced, but terribly dull.

The conclusion is simple — if you don't want to, don't play. And why would you sign up for a tournament on a template you dislike?

Well, how was I supposed to know... I'm playing this template for the first time, I only briefly looked at it before. I won't do it again, of course.

Playing one match in pairs is subjective, especially with such an unbalanced balance. :) Playing until two wins in pairs prolongs the tournament. If you want to play until one win, and this is a mutual agreement between the players, I cannot forbid you from doing so. The tournament was organized so that players could enjoy themselves; no one intends to turn the game into a tedious chore. As an organizer, my task is to ensure that the draw is completed on time, that the results of the matches are recorded in the table (after the report is confirmed), and so on. Of course, it's hard to say that I'm completely exhausted :D, but I hope you have no complaints about me. In defense of the "Balance" map – on the starting map, there is a native village, which, even with a sluggish game, allows you to reach the desert (for a map size L) by the third week, and then the main treasure (the guard of the main treasure is weaker than the guard in the desert). IMHO, this compensates for the poor starting positions. Plus, there are quite frequent good resource locations on the neighboring starting areas; I often find Necropolis resource locations (horses or liches). There is little money on the starting areas, that's true; you need to invest in the economy. But there is always little money, whether in Heroes of Might and Magic, Might and Magic, or in life. This is a property of money :) When exchanging armies, magic and a well-developed mage become particularly important. So, you shouldn't bury the "Balance" map; it's a good map, just different...:smile24: PS Well, if you're really tired, let's choose the winner by voting :D

numOne (blue, swamp, Wystan, Wystan) def bRitvo4kA (red, barb, Gurnisson, Gurnisson), Balance, 226

Got slow roads, a secondary nearby, but the other road turned out to be a long one going around the mountains with a fork to the ГО (horses) and the secondary on the grass behind the griffins. Respawn was poor — little money and not a single external dwelling, but there are 2 Griffin Conservatories nearby and a max naga bank. On the first day, I managed to get 1-6, without level 4 in the Citadel, broke through to the grass and colored the barb village. Wystan got Tactics and Earth.
On the second day, I upgrade lizards and flies, bring everything I have and break the Griffin Conservatories (2+3) — in the first one they killed all the ducks, in the second they finished off the cows, but there are 5 angels! I hit the naga bank with the loss of 1 fly — got money for hydras!:smile54: Broke through the grass, colored Conflux, bought a book. Got Offense and Water.
On the third day, I hit the ГО — there are 2 mini hives, Boots of Speed, Ring of +1 Life, Cuirass of +2 (missing the Helm of +2 for the set, never managed to find it until the end of the game). I scout with the lookout — Gurnisson with his army on his grass secondary. By the end of the week, scout heroes met near the Necropolis on the rocks, and Andrey decided not to tempt me — cast Fog. As it turned out, next to the Necropolis there was also a passage to the treasure zone, where Gurnisson headed.
On the fourth week, I bring up troops, go through the opponent’s unbreached ГО to visit him, kill a scout hero and set up near the stable and Rampart village. Gurnisson attacks through a divide. In terms of meat, I was losing, but I had Tactics, Mass Bless, Slow, and Shield, I shield the lizards, cast Bless, and start sniping. The cows were unfortunately blocked by terrain — I had to sacrifice them, Andrey couldn’t reach the rest. In the end, after killing a few of my lizards, 4 basilisks, and the cows, but losing 6 angels, 6 ducks, almost all the orcs, and the ballista, Gurnisson buys peace.
Then comes the taking of the opponent’s secondaries, upgrade of hydras and ducks. Andrey, meanwhile, cleans up his own respawn (which was in a pocket with only one entrance — 2 days’ travel along a narrow road, which made it easy to control the process).
At the decisive moment, I attack Gurnisson in the capital. The battle was intense, the catapult skill helped a lot, and again Water decided it — Wystan’s 100 lizards with 6 damage per unit bite very painfully, and when 9 greater hydras came in under Bless and hit him a couple of times with morale, Andrey capitulated.

Thanks for the long and interesting game!

numOne (blue, swamp, Wistan, Wistan) def bRitvo4kA (red, Barbarian, Gurnisson, Gurnisson), Balance, 226



That's how it was, thanks for the game!

Well, with the right strategy (including restarting), you can still achieve a certain balance... especially with the Chinese rules, where a draw is one of the possible outcomes – if it doesn't work out, try to play for a draw, like in chess!)))))

Although, during our discussion, Vic and I had a suspicion that when the Chinese are reviewing the map generation, they reject layouts that, in addition to fitting the template's name, are also clearly unbalanced :D :D

Now, regarding the central area: going there to gain resources might be good according to the local rules, but with the Chinese rules, it's like a death sentence: they'll capture all the castles, kill all the weaklings, and without teleportation, you'll be guaranteed to lose almost 100% of the time before you can even walk there... ;)

And Vic is right about the map generation: in some scenarios, playing against a strong opponent is hopeless – even offline, with full knowledge of everything, it might not give you the same advantage as playing against an opponent who is playing blindly! :eek: :smile18:

In the reported game, I could have asked for help from the mage and the tower, in the rather slim hope of using fly and double-damage spells, which are not banned by the Chinese rules – and that's how I ended up at the Barbarian village! :smile34: And besides the poor starting position (for the first time when not playing at 200%, I couldn't place knights near the castle!!!)), even for the Guardian Order, which I managed to capture earlier (Vic was absolutely right not to force the game – it's not necessary for the balance), there was only one road to the Inferno village, which I had already captured off-road. I could have, in principle, not broken the double Guardian Order :D :D :D The entire road network remained with the opponent before his Guardian Order, and the roads are super-fast!

And regarding restarts – it's the same story: in the played game, I realized that the ambush was only on the 2nd day :(
When I took my 113th town, I just made the computer lag, but I hesitated for a long time... now I'll be smarter)))

As a result: the ability to play even on such a map is, in my opinion, not superfluous, and it is acquired only through practice – without it, you can't even assess the variance of the layouts with all the consequences :)
You can consider this as a fix (I wrote even earlier that balancing strategies are closer to fixes in some ways))) – well, and when it doesn't work out, it's like a fix that you've already lost on, but you have to keep going, especially since the draw option somehow helps... in the reported game, in addition to the general mess, there were also 2 unexpected things: the absence of roads to the light faction behind my Guardian Order and the opponent's teleportation, which he didn't fail to use :)

But thank you, Vic, for the long ordeal – in the next game, we'll try to minimize it :smile17:

I ask the participants of the competition: bRitvo4kA, numOne, Wicc, wowa – please let me know how much more time you think it will take to finish this round.
Please reply in this thread.

Approximately one month, assuming no one drops out.

Vova and I are usually online regularly, so we should be done by the end of the week.

Added 11 hours 36 minutes ago
One day was enough.

The report can be started and finished with one sentence - 5 cans for 14 angels, GG.

2-0

One day was enough.

The report can be started and finished with a single phrase — 5 cans vs 14 angels, GG.

2-0

If he had been given Word at home, and Deys had been banned from Earth — maybe 6 angels could have switched to the red side — it would have been 7 vs 8 :)

but Deys ran sloppily — first he ran into ГО, then at the end of the week he went to hit LotS's Inferno upgraded dogs (all the others without tactics could have brought GG in that battle)))) — and behind LotS's teleport were snipers :( after building Word in the village, he spent a long time looking for a Scholar — but he didn't show up, and no one got anything on the 2 level-ups :( out of frustration, he crashed his main into the village, from there he finally broke through the snipers and was ready to crash and run to ГО at any moment, but after 4-5 level-ups Earth still wasn't advanced, he only leveled up when Gundula was about to grab the Castle ;)
well, in that battle there was no chance of course, 14 canned angels — that's no small potatoes, with or without butter ;) well, also Grinya helped the opponent rack up tempo before getting fired!

thanks to Vic for the game, I wish you similar draws in the final on the hated template! :D

Great. We'll wait to hear what bRitvo4kA has to say. For clarity, I'll set a deadline for the second round: two weeks, until February 8th, inclusive.

I'm currently busy, but I think two weeks should be enough to finish the tournament. So, I'm available until February 8th.

bRitvo4kA (blue, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def numOne (red, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti), Balance, 215

Week 1: on 113 I take my native secondary skill, from the lookout tower at the adjacent swamp secondary skill there are 2 Griffin Conservatories — I decide to play. Archers not built, tight on money; as a result I have 1,2,4,6 in the Stronghold + an external dwelling of griffins.
Week 2: I push into the swamp, lose a champion on the guard of the first Griffin Conservatory (turned out to be a Tron one with an upgraded creature) — I don't push it, instead I take the second one (1) and a secondary skill. I fight through a crowd of snipers and take a Necropolis secondary skill, and in the desert an external dwelling of psychos.
Week 3: Shield +3, a crate for 5k XP, breakthrough to the main. Meanwhile the opponent comes out into the desert, kills a couple of my scout heroes and takes away the Necropolis secondary skill. I break a Griffin Conservatory (3) and head to intercept, but Shakti has a very long move and he breaks through the ГО into the treasure zone and runs away. While Shakti clears the treasure zone I take back 2 Necropolis secondary skills.
Week 4: Got upset when I stupidly lost Turis to an angel, not calculating the damage precisely. Fiona follows Shakti and collects resources after him and paints gold mines. Capitol, a level 3 Griffin Conservatory in the Barbarian secondary skill, 2 beehives.
Week 5: I build angels, break through to the main, break through 2 ГО and take the capital, a scout hero with an army buys himself out. Shakti comes out of the treasure zone where efreet and manticores are being delivered to him. In the desert I catch up and attack. Implosion takes out my archers, but my units get good morale (3 times in 2 rounds) + a Meteor Shower for 450 hits decently in the second round, plus I have a meat advantage — the final battle is won.


Thanks for the game!
1 : 1

bRitvo4kA (blue, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def numOne (red, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti), Balance, 215

Confirmed.
After the restarts, a tough start: Shakti with 1 stack, no pickups at the respawn, on the first day had to fight first 30+ orc sergeants then 30+ marksmen (on the way to the Inferno village and the native secondary town), by the end of the week was left with 2 Manticores, 40 basic Troglodytes, and 4 Evil Eyes, home Manticores in the Citadel. I was thinking of giving up, but Andrey reassured me that his situation wasn't exactly a picnic either. Shakti leveled up well though — Logistics, Earth... I decide to play.
On the second day, I upgrade the Evil Eyes, Troglodytes, Manticores; break a mini Naga Bank, a max Medusa Bank; exit through roadless terrain onto muddy ground, there are Boots, a mini Griffin Conservatory, a stable, a Breastplate +1 to All; painted a Necropolis village.
On the third day, GO wasn't broken — we bypassed it. Skirmishes with scout heroes... Managed to dive into the treasure zone a turn earlier — at least some chance to catch up. Andrey didn't chase after me, started clearing the surroundings. The treasure zone turned out to be so-so — only 40 ducks and a few times they offered skeletons from a box, which I squandered :) At home, I build the Mage Guild in the capital and the secondary town hoping for Armageddon (have Expert Fire), they gave me Water Walk and Executioner :), the secondary has Chain Lightning, Implosion, but at that moment Andrey breaks GO, takes the castle, and cuts off my path back. I go the long way around, the scout heroes evacuate what they managed to grab. At the last moment, I find an Implosion scroll, realize I need to lure Valeska onto me, otherwise she'll reach the secondary town with Implosion and gg. Lure her I did, but the advantage in meat was enormous, and my 40 ducks with the small stuff melted in 2 rounds.

Thanks for the game.