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Offline Саня Изи
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#1
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I just tried a new tactic, which I think is quite effective: "Fallen Ranger." The idea is this: train Darkness or find a tome of Darkness, capture a Necropolis. Max out Enchanted Arrow, Arrow Rain, and Enchanted Ballista. Fill your army with undead troops, converting all elves. Train another Necromancer, gather neutral creatures, and give them to the elf. Train Tactics, Forest Fury, and Battle Frenzy. You can also go for a single-player campaign. This way, you get an awesome combat machine capable of tearing through anyone, even Haven. You can also start with a Necromancer, capture the elves, hire a Ranger, and train him in this way. You get mass Subjugation and mass Berserk, plus hordes of undead under constant elven luck. Are there any comments on this, or has this already been discussed somewhere?
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Offline Ereb
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#2
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The chance of an elf casting Darkness is 2%, which is too low... you definitely won't get it at the early levels... I think it's not necessary to teach Darkness; the main thing is to increase the hero's spellcasting skill and the Darkness spell itself... otherwise, it's complete nonsense!

За кланы! За кровь!
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#3
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Ereb
The chance of a Dark artifact dropping for an Elf is 2%, which is quite low... you definitely won't find one at the early levels...
Indeed, the chance of getting "battle machines" is also 2%, and undead creatures won't have a chance to deal a critical hit to their sworn enemy. Because of this, the tactic is risky in online battles, but it's a good idea for a single-player game due to its originality...
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline Саня Изи
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#4
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HoM[M]ie
Indeed, the chance of getting "war machines" is only 2%, and undead won't have a chance to deal a critical hit to a sworn enemy. Because of this, the tactic is risky in online battles, but it's a good idea for a single-player game due to its originality...
In reality, it has been verified that war machines are constantly given to the elves. And is a critical hit really that necessary against three enemies in a horde of undead? We already have elven luck + artifacts that increase luck, which more than compensates for the lack of a critical hit. Dark magic is very difficult to obtain, but if you do, you won't regret it. It's easier to find a tome of darkness, but the spells will be at a basic level. And mass berserk is a real nightmare for Heaven – it has been tested, and after just a few turns, almost nothing remains of their army. All that's left is to finish off the cavalry. Of course, you could replace the undead in the army with elves, but there will be far fewer of them, and a 40% chance of a critical hit is not that impressive either. But a large number of vampires or ghosts under constant luck and vampirism – that's the way to go!:D :D :D

Added after 3 minutes
Ereb
The chance of dark magic appearing for an elf is 2%, which is too little... you definitely won't find it at the initial levels... I think it's not necessary to learn dark magic; the main thing is to increase the hero's spellcasting skill and find a tome of darkness... otherwise, it's complete nonsense!
What do you mean by "nonsense"? Do you even understand what you're saying?:smile40: :smile40:
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Offline Ple-Sen
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#5
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It's a foolish idea; you've come up with a too convoluted "tactic" that is also unreliable and depends on many factors. There are many strategies that are both more effective than yours and easier to implement.
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Offline HoM[M]ie
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#6
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Lordesat
Actually, it has been observed that machines are given to elves quite often. <...> It's very difficult to get dark magic, but if you do, you won't regret it.
In turn, I repeat that a tactic based on obtaining rare skills is unstable; in my case, it's the opposite - I only got machines once in the entire game of Heroes, while dark magic appeared once and even dropped for almost every elf. :D
All tactics are considered from the perspective of online play; in single-player, any can be implemented if desired, so I agree with Ereb...
P.S. And, Lordesat, could you please not be so harsh in your statements?
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
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Offline Саня Изи
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#7
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Ple-Sen
A foolish idea; you've come up with a too convoluted "tactic," and it's unreliable and depends on many factors. There are many strategies that are both more effective than yours and easier to implement.
For example, what are these strategies? And, in general, there's nothing difficult to implement here; the only challenge is acquiring Darkness, but if we acquire it or find the Tome of Darkness, then I will definitely use it. It simply works under certain conditions, but it gives amazing results. This tactic can be used by both Necromancers and Elves. It is very effective, and this has been proven. :smile49:

Added 6 minutes later
HoM[M]ie
In turn, I repeat that a tactic based on acquiring rare skills is unstable. In my case, it's the opposite – I only got Machines once in the entire game of Heroes, while Darkness dropped for almost every Elf once. :D
All tactics are considered from the perspective of online play; in single-player, any can be implemented if desired, so I agree with Ereb...
P.S. And, Lordesat, could you please not be so harsh in your statements?
I'm not being harsh in my statements; I'm just expressing my opinion, and that's what the forum is for. The development is practically standard for an Elf, with the difference that Darkness is taken, or not taken at all if there is a Tome of Darkness. However, this is up to each player. Machines can also be skipped; the effect will be reduced only slightly. With Machines, we simply get an additional Berserk. The only difference is that the army is formed from undead, not Elves – thus, we will not get any retaliatory Berserk or Subjugation. It is mainly aimed at battles against Haven, which is traditionally considered overpowered and unbeatable, and this is what prompted me to write about it
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Offline Ple-Sen
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#8
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For example, what strategies are you referring to? And, in general, there's nothing here that's difficult to implement. The only challenge is obtaining Darkness, but if we manage to get it or find a tome of Darkness, I will definitely use it. It simply works under certain conditions, but it delivers amazing results. This tactic can be used by both Necromancers and Elves. It's very effective, and that's been proven.
Oh, you need to get the right skill, manage to develop it, find a Necromancer town, and manage to survive until then, while also developing your own town to that point, if it hasn't been developed yet. As for the effectiveness of the strategy, first bring the person you tried it with, or try it against other players, at least those here, and then talk about it being "one of the best Elven tactics."
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Offline Саня Изи
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#9
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Ple-Sen
Oh, you need to get the right skill, manage to develop it, find a Necromancer town, and manage to survive until then, develop the Necromancer town if it hasn't been developed yet, and at the same time, you also need to develop your own town up to that point. And about the effectiveness of the strategy, first bring the person you tried it with, or try it against other players, at least the ones here, and then talk about how it's "one of the best Elven tactics."
This strategy is designed for playing on large maps in the late game, where there are many castles and artifacts, so we will have time to build castles and find the Tomb of Shadows. Yes, there are difficulties in obtaining the Tomb of Shadows, but if it appears, it is quite possible to develop it to a developed level (I'm not even talking about subjugation) for a Berserker. In a battle on large maps against Haven with a standard build, Elves and Necromancers probably have little chance. As I said, this is a proven strategy, although I haven't played it much with the players here yet, but I will definitely do so. In any case, we don't lose anything, even if there is no Necromancer town, but there will be a Tomb of Shadows, and three Berserkers at the same time are, in my opinion, a guaranteed loss for any army. Especially if it's Wingael.
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Offline Mdance
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#10
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Even Darkness cannot save the elf from the devastating attacks of Cyclops. This is especially true on a large map with multiple castles. Only Wingael can offer some resistance to the orc. Here is an old replay. We have discussed it many times on other forums. In reality, Cyclops attack twice before the hero's turn and destroy almost half of the army. The only solution is to Subjugate the Cyclops using the Canal spell; otherwise, the Chieftains will finish off the remaining units, but the Druids will be wiped out, so they need to be hidden. This is the only way. But if Wingael is present, it becomes easier. Before his death, the stacks of Dryads and Dancers will at least attack once.
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Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Саня Изи
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#11
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This is a strange replay. The Elf barely casts spells, the troops are positioned in a completely incomprehensible way, and there are very few Elves in general. I'd be interested to see the Orc's artifacts – where does he get such speed? Regarding my tactics – instead of Berserk, you could also use Mass Subjugation; why not? Especially if it's Weng, the effect will be stunning.
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Offline antonag07
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#12
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The replay isn’t staged; it’s taken from a real online game. The player controlling the Barbarians knew how dangerous Wingael’s troops were (they can move first and destroy enemy armies) and took some countermeasures. P.S. If you’re interested in the theme of “Elves under the control of a non-native hero,” try using a demon as the leader (Necromancers are not very promising due to their low attack stat and the low chance of getting the “Leadership” skill) or, at worst, a Warlock (even a Barbarian would be better than a Necromancer).
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Offline Mish-gan
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#13
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The replay isn't just strange; it's absurd and unrealistic. It gives the impression that the Orcs developed for 5 months, while the Elves developed for only 3. Why are there so few trees and archers, and at the same time, where did the Orcs get 130 Warlocks? This is a completely unrepresentative battle that doesn't mean anything!
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Offline Mdance
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#14
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Mish-gan
The replay is not just strange, it's absurd and unrealistic. It gives the impression that the Orcs developed for 5 months, while the Elves developed for only 3. Why are there so few trees and archers, and at the same time, where did the Orcs get 130 Warlords? This is a completely unrepresentative battle that doesn't mean anything!
It seems you have absolutely no idea about the concept of "creature growth per week."
For reference:
Goblin growth = 25
Centaur growth = 14
Shaman growth = 5
Warlord growth = 5
Dryad growth = 10
Dancer growth = 9
Elf growth = 7
Druid growth = 4
Unicorn growth = 3
Ent growth = 2

There are 3 "native" race cities on the map. And 2 dwellings of each level.
Now, please recalculate the troop proportions, taking into account the losses during the breakthrough, and don't talk nonsense.

But, of course, if you can't calculate the proportions yourself yet, I'll do it for you. Regarding the unclear points:
The ratio of Elves to Warlords should be 7/5, meaning there should be 1.4 times more Elves than Warlords.
There are 138 Warlords in the replay. There should be at least 193 Elves. There are 206 in the replay. Any more questions?

And I'll say it again - this is a real game. With an opponent who is well-versed in the specifics of playing as an Elf against an Orc. He even captured and developed Darkness (2%). He just didn't expect that the tactic of using a single powerful stack would be applied against him. The advantage in the army is insignificant - 20 Cyclops against 17 Dragons - it's just that the cities were captured a couple of days earlier, which is not surprising given Argath's specialization.

P.S. The phrase "The Elf hardly casts spells" shows that the initiative of the Warlords and Shamans is not just for show. And the Cyclops move so often for a reason. Although some people may not understand this.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
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Offline Саня Изи
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#15
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antonag07
The replay isn't staged; it's taken from a real online game. The player controlling the Barbarians simply knew how dangerous Wingael's troops were (they can move first and decimate the enemy's army) and took some countermeasures. P.S. If you're interested in the theme of "Elves under the command of a non-native hero," try using a Demon as the leader (Necromancers aren't very promising due to their low attack stat and the low chance of getting the "Leadership" skill) or, at worst, a Warlock (even a Barbarian would be better than a Necromancer). ;)
Actually, I was talking about Necromancers under the control of Elves, or, at worst, Elves under the control of Elves. And in that replay, it's not Wingael, but I don't remember who it is anymore, but it's definitely not him. Also, the tree growth rate is not 2, but 3, and the Elves' Castle is built much earlier than the Orcs'. The stack of Cyclops didn't impress me much; I was more impressed by the clumsy tactics of the Elf, the lack of any spell usage. It's unbelievable – they didn't even protect the Archers and Druids. And where is the famous Elven luck? :smile21: :smile21:
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