DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” — Online Tournaments

КостяN

16 years ago

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Don't touch the Miner!:smile51:

No bans!
At worst, you could come up with a rule to disband exactly half of the Miner's troglodytes if the Miner has more than 1 starting stack... But then you'd also have to somehow include Lorelei in this rule - so it's better to leave it as is :).

In reply to КостяN

Дубровин Павел

16 years ago

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КостяN

Don't touch my Miner!:smile51:

I absolutely agree that the Dungeon should not be limited.

After all, it's not what's on the outside that matters, but what's inside: Treasuries, Dragon Utopias (tasty ones), Consulates, Hives, Pandoras, artifacts, Secondary sites, Money, Resources..., etc. and so forth.
These are far more decisive than the Castle types.

In reply to Дубровин Павел

КостяN

16 years ago

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Dubrovin Pavel

It's not this that is decisive, but what' same inside: Treasuries, Dragon Utopia (tasty ones), Cons, Hives, Pandoras, artifacts, Secondaries, Money, Resources..., etc. and so on.
These are far more decisive than the Castle Types.

Generally yes! I am sure that if one wanted to, they could generate a bunch of starting saves for red Dungeon - blue Inferno, where Dungeon has almost no chance. Seriously.

P.S. Congratulations on turning green, just like Cash:) .

In reply to КостяN

Dirty_Player

16 years ago

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Dubrovin Pavel

After all, what matters is not the type of castle, but what's inside: Treasure, Utopias (delicious), Cons, Hives, Pandoras, Artifacts, Secondaries, Money, Resources..., and so on.
These things matter much more than the types of castles.

Pash, I'll see your Inferno report sometime, and then we can philosophize about Cons and Pandoras, as well as the starting setup :D

KostyaN

Actually, yes! I'm sure you can generate a bunch of starting saves for the campaign, with Red Dungeon and Blue Inferno, where the Dungeon has almost no chance. Seriously.

Can you provide a selection? It would also be interesting to see the percentage ratio. Is it normal for Shakti to take the minimum Cons and any Nymph at the start? (plus a portal, by the way, for only 2500) And is it bad for Inferno if you don't get a good starting location (at best :D)?

In reply to Wicc

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Wicc

The summoning portal is forgotten. This is the main advantage of Dungeon when starting, not with the Шахти hero. It's enough to defend a good resource node, like cats or minotaurs, to get a powerful stack by the 2nd week to raid serious banks.

Sir, stay focused, I haven't forgotten anything. The question was what would remain if we remove Шахти and the portal; that's what I'm actually talking about. Save such explanations for topics aimed at helping beginners. ;)
P.S. I would allow the portal to summon creatures up to level 4. As for the Шахтёр hero, I don't know; he can take level 111 with one stack of cons if the second hero isn't Лора...

In reply to Wlk777

Psyche_7

16 years ago

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If we remove Shakti and the portal, would Dungeon still have a chance against Castle, for example, with 1-2 ranged units? There’s always a decisive advantage in something; it’s all random… You can always eliminate something (it’s basic, but still).

In reply to Psyche_7

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Psyche_7

If you remove Shakti and the portal, will Dungeon have a chance, for example, against Castle with 1-2 ranged units?

It would be better to ask if Castle will have a chance against Shakti with a minotaur and 20+ of them at the beginning of the second week. And there are many ways to counter ranged units (tactics, for example), and you wouldn't even go into a Utopia with them...
P.S. For some reason, in the Might vs. Magic tournament, no one wants to play with "cheating" mages against the "non-cheating" Шахтёр.

In reply to Javdet

Javdet

16 years ago

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Javdet

Based on recent games, I had a desire to change something, namely:
a starting hero of level 5 appears with 3 stacks, surrounded by hiding places, money, and... a rest point.
I suggest that in such a situation, a save is made, the opponent is informed, this hero is dismissed, and the game continues. Upon subsequent appearances in the tavern, ignore him or buy him for troops and dismiss him.

Hey everyone, shall we put this to a vote?

In reply to Yakudza

Redwhait

16 years ago

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Guys, wouldn't it be easier to remove the portal than to debate whether or not to ban Shaktis? Then the arguments would shift to Grechin, who, with 2-3 stacks, can also break almost anything, just like Shaktis. Let's have a vote: I'm against banning the Miner, but I'm for banning the portal!

In reply to Yakudza

Loi

16 years ago

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Inspired by recent games, I had a desire to change something, specifically:
a starting hero of level 5 appears with 3 stacks, surrounded by defensive structures, with money, and... a tech-reset.
I suggest that in such a situation, a save is made, the opponent is informed, and this hero is dismissed, and the game continues. Upon subsequent appearances in the tavern, the hero should be ignored or purchased for troops and then dismissed.

In my opinion, this is an unnecessary complication of the rule, and to maintain the clarity and simplicity of the rule regarding "tech-reset when the hero is not of the first level," it's better to simply regenerate the map. I think this unpleasant situation can also happen to the opponent, right?:)

In reply to Yakudza

Van

16 years ago

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Now I'll squeeze in 5 coppers :D, and according to an old Jewish legend, there are Jedi :smile28: who let you choose a city for yourself and for them, and they win against everyone :eek: at the same time, maybe you need to train more :D

In reply to Loi

Forrest

16 years ago

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I agree that Shakti is an unrealistically strong hero in the current state of the game. Starting and playing as him is 2-3 times easier than with any other faction (except for Galtran). In The Restoration of Erathia, they reduced the number of Trolls to 80-90.
In my opinion, the rules should limit the number of Trolls.
"For example, limit it to 90 (the total number of purchased and second-tier Trolls, plus Shakti's Trolls, should not exceed 90) on map 111."
I think banning the Portal is an excessive measure. It's a unique feature of the Dungeon, just like the Castle's stables. And other factions successfully use the Portal.

In reply to Yakudza

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Regarding the dungeon, a vote would be good, here are some possible options: 1. Should we limit the dungeon? Yes/No 2. Should we ban/limit the number of Troglodytes? 3. Should we ban/limit the Portal to level 4?

In reply to Redwhait

Wicc

16 years ago

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redwhait

Then arguments will start about the same Gretch that with 2-3 stacks can break anything just like Shakti. :D

Well, you've compared... it's one thing with goblins, and another thing with Troglodytes — a significant advantage of the latter in hit points, damage, and quantity. If Gretch could actually do anything with his goblins, people would start with him, not with Crag or Gurney as they do now.

In reply to Yakudza

Loi

16 years ago

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Realizing that such attempts at "improvement"—like reducing Shakti's power or cutting (removing) cons—have been, are, and will always be present, I will still try to convey my opinion on this matter...
I think all these attempts are due to the fact that "rationalizers" are shifting their attitude towards Heroes into a purely competitive aspect. If that's the case, it's much better not to rework the game, but to start mastering the Tournament Edition (TE)—everything has already been discussed and tested by players there, significant progress has been made (like with Vik). In Heroes of Might and Magic (SoD), there are many more random elements than in TE (probably, I haven't used TE). Randomness is a feature of SoD. It's its essence. That's what makes it enjoyable. I actually preferred Bridge more than Chess (even though I played for a year and had a first-level rating in a local club around the age of 16). If you like, SoD and TE are slightly different philosophies, different approaches to the game. For me, TE is a pursuit of a cyber-discipline, a kind of chess—while SoD has more of a card game element... SoD has more of it, in short.)))
As for annihilating the portal—why be petty? Let's just ban Inferno, for example—well, the starting position for it is relatively difficult, and few people play it. Or here's another idea—I suggest swapping the knight and bishop in chess if Iron Mizer comes along—rest, to hell with it...
Am I exaggerating? Yes, but not to argue—but to convey my opinion more vividly...