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Posts from Moscow qualifying tournament for Shades of Darkness.

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I agree – the very idea of splitting it up is complete nonsense, IMHO.
ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.
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As I understand the idea behind the Nagana event, the goal is to gather as many people as possible. And since most of the true Shades of Darkness players won't make it to the finals, they won't cause any particular problems.
In reply to Nagan-4
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Nagan-4
And what about the second Moscow qualifier – are there not many advantages? Invite Rolpogo, Morpheus, Rox, Veland, Dimen, Pit, Phoenixes – they are more likely not to play in Tournaments because most people haven't heard of it... but they could play.
After all, this is an additional 10-12 people for the tournament, and there aren't that many of us, so we shouldn't be so dismissive. Tournaments are rarely limited by the number of players from SoD.
With due diligence, it is possible to find and invite enough people for both SoD and Tournaments tournaments.
I am in favor of club tournaments, the more the better, but they should be full-fledged. If this idea works out, I will be glad and will try to come, meet the guys. But...
Eric, when you look at the clan rosters, do you somehow relate them to the players you know?

Phoenixes: I'll start with myself – I don't think there's even a question about participating in this tournament;
Piterius – we communicated on ICQ, there is hope that he will be able to come to the Moscow tournament, but definitely not to play in SoD;
Rebellios and Captain – they are Ukrainians, like Petya, they would definitely play SoD, I don't know anything about the chances of them coming to Moscow;
Dust – he is busy with a tournament in Siberia;
Of the active online 3v3 players that I know (if I forgot someone, sorry, I have never received offers to play 3v3 for the clan, so I don't understand the roster well), there is Twix: Vitalik and Vigo.
Let's add Pit and Kebu to them – recently, Stinger, Mike, Andre, and Samurai played a 2v2: Stinger vs. Samurai, Andre vs. Mike – no one even thought to call it a tournament.
If they can attract the players you listed, then respect to the organizers. If not...
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Eric, when you look at the Clans lineups, do you somehow relate them to players you know?

There's no need to take everything so seriously. Regarding the topic, I usually rely on the first post, the author's one. There, Querty writes: "There is an opinion about the feasibility of holding a club tournament in Moscow... let's discuss it."

So, I wrote that at the SoD tournament, players like
Pit, Keba, Rolpogo, Morpheus, Veland, Dimen, Rox, Phoenixes - PReDS, Vitalik, Vigo, as well as players from Portal and World, who don't play TE, could participate in the SoD tournament. Even our Michurinsk players would come, a couple of people, but they wouldn't go to the TE tournament.
After all, there are probably a couple of people from World or Portal who would like to hang out in Moscow, especially at a club tournament.

Therefore, with proper organization, such a tournament could take place. But for this, the potential organizer (presumably Querty) needs to reach out to old contacts on Portal, gather his players to represent the Clan, find old players from Moscow, agree with the club... in general, a lot of work, but no more than, for example, SAG.

Such a tournament is possible with proper organization. The lineup will not be inferior to other qualifying tournaments (well, maybe except for the top TE tournament in Moscow and potentially St. Petersburg), people almost don't overlap with the qualifying tournament in Moscow for TE.
That's all. There was a discussion, and I suggested a possible development of the situation.
A perfectly feasible task.
As I assume, Nagana's idea is to gather as many people as possible.

And since most of the true SoD players will not make it to the finals, they won't create any particular problems.

Is it bad to gather more people? It's the dream of any organizer, in any field, to gather more people. If, for example, 100 players come to all the qualifying tournaments, then next year, if they believe in us, there will be 200.
Some of the players who have already quit Heroes will return. Those who are still beginners will get involved. There will be some order in the Heroes community.
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Eric, you keep replacing TE-lite with TE everywhere. Why? Why can't Soda players play on the lite version? At the qualifier in Kyiv, the TE players (Volodymyr, Forrest, Piterius, and I) came and played on the version and template that was inconvenient for them without any questions. Why are the Soda orthodox players creating tension with their ultimatums, like "we don't like this, we don't like that"? Does pride prevent them from learning three buttons and two differences between the lite version and SoD in fifteen minutes? Or what prevents Pitu from opening the 8mm6 template scheme during the game to orient himself? I haven't played CM for ages, I opened the scheme in a browser and played, and I didn't die.
In reply to Armagedda
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Armagedda
...Or what prevents Pete from opening the 8mm6 template during the game to get his bearings? I haven't played CM for ages, I opened the template in a browser and played, and I didn't die.
He knows it well, better than many, but he doesn't like it.
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Thank you, colleagues! I raised the question of whether it is advisable to hold such a tournament for the following reasons: 1. Tradition. Two qualifying tournaments have already been held on SoD; it seems logical to continue in the same spirit. 2. Statistics. Look at which version and template have been used for most of the games in the last three years. Possible solutions: 1. Positive. Have a calm discussion and, without imposing or pushing your opinion, come to the conclusion of holding two qualifying tournaments simultaneously at one venue. By the way (although, given the somewhat heightened emotional atmosphere, this seems unlikely), it would be possible to hold a duel tournament for the fifth game simultaneously and even perhaps a small round-robin tournament for the second game... 2. Negative. Argue and hold two qualifying tournaments in different places, scheduling them at the same time. I hope this won't happen. I hope for understanding and that this topic will soon become irrelevant due to the opening of the SoD group in the Moscow qualifying tournament of SaGa. I don't hold any grudges; the positive emotions from our meeting last winter remain. If the idea of holding a tournament for the second game simultaneously is of interest, I am ready to help with the organization and judging.

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
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To avoid losing to the Chinese or anyone else, you need to play like Vasily Ivanovich, mastering everything. Even if you play the bass-helicon and cards fall off it :D
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Eric, why are you constantly replacing TE-lite with TE? Why can't Sod players play on the lite version? At the qualifier in Kyiv, the TE players (Volodymyr, Forrest, Piterius, and I) came and played on a version and template that wasn't ideal for them without any questions. Why are the orthodox Sod players creating tension with their ultimatums, like "we don't like this, we don't like that"? Does pride prevent them from learning three buttons and two differences between the lite version and Sod in fifteen minutes? Or what prevents Pete from opening the 8mm6 template scheme during the game to get his bearings? I haven't played CM for ages, I opened the scheme in a browser and played, and I didn't die.

Zhenya, let's go through this step by step. You probably accepted Sod in Kyiv because you were a strong player in Sod. At least in 2004 (I think you played against Antal and you were close to winning).
I assume that Forrest and others also started playing Sod, and they liked it so much that they stayed in Heroes... but I won't get into a discussion about TE and Sod.

Regarding the pride of Sod players. Don't TE players have pride? The question is different. To accept or not accept TE (especially TE-lite), you need to understand it. A player who left Heroes, after receiving an offer to learn TE-lite (it's kind of like Sod, only better), will draw the following conclusions:
1. That TE is probably some kind of cobbled-together thing, like WoG, on which you can't play tournaments in clubs, which means the tournament offer is not serious.
2. That even if they say it's similar, it will definitely be different, and I'll mess things up...

This is the reasoning of a person who left. But he can return to Sod, pleasant memories of Chaos tournaments will surface, as will memories of the Krasnodar tournaments. Look how many people have returned, who left a long time ago - Pasha from Michurinsk, Dima from Oskol, Mystic from there too. In the end, you and Vova also left, but now you've returned. The difference is that you left when TE already existed.

Therefore, let as many people as possible return, and then we can introduce them to TE if they have time.
I'll say it again, our arguments might create the impression that there are a lot of us. In reality, although the community is growing, there are few of us.
Therefore, ideally, we need to attract everyone we can to the tournaments, even if it's just for Sod.
In reply to Armagedda
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Armagedda
Does pride prevent you from learning three buttons and two differences between Light and SoD in fifteen minutes?
One politician from the past (unfortunately, I don't remember who exactly) once said the following (not verbatim): "Behind every high-sounding statement of your opponent, always look for their petty self-interest. When you find it, discuss their high-sounding statements, but act based on their true motivation."

It's not pride here, but a desire to climb higher in the hierarchy, even by reducing competition. And it is precisely a crystal-clear SoD + CM combination that allows this goal to be achieved - because many strong players avoid this combination.

So, what would you do if you were faced with two options: either compete in a simplified lineup for a chance to win, or almost certainly get nothing. You would probably praise your own "swamp" with all your might.

It's much simpler :).

To confirm this thought, pay attention to those SoD players who are willing to play Light or even Full. Usually, these are those who are at a higher level and can more or less compete even with top TE players. The correlation is not strict, but it is clearly visible.
In reply to Wicc
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Therefore, ideally, we should encourage everyone we can to participate in tournaments, even if it's just for fun.
Why is this happening? This tournament was supposed to be a competition, not just a general gathering. Why is there now a disregard for the competitive spirit and common sense?

Let the tournament be held on SOD, but not as a qualifier.

If SOD was necessary to gather enough participants in Michurinsk, the situation in Moscow is different.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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But any game is primarily a model of life. Personally, I like SoD because you can get into the lair of a black dragon (the so-called "cloaca maxima") and then get out of there. This increases the chances in a similar situation, but already in real life. Another thing is templates; how can you refuse such wonderful XL templates from the developer?
In reply to Qwerty
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Qwerty
Thank you, colleagues!
I raised the question of whether it's worthwhile to hold such a tournament.
1. Tradition. Two qualifying tournaments have been held on SoD; it seems logical to continue in the same spirit.
2. Statistics. Look at which version and map most games have been played on in the last three years.

Possible solutions.
1. Positive.
Have a calm discussion and, without imposing or pushing your opinion, come to the conclusion of holding two qualifying tournaments simultaneously at one venue.
By the way (although, given the somewhat heightened emotional atmosphere, this seems unlikely), it would be possible to hold a duel tournament for the fifth game at the same time, and maybe even a small round-robin tournament for the second game...
2. Negative. Argue and hold two qualifying tournaments in different places, scheduling them at the same time. I want to believe that this will not happen.
I hope for understanding and that this topic will soon become irrelevant due to the opening of the SoD group in the Moscow qualifying tournament of SaGa. I don't hold any grudges; the positive emotions from our meeting last winter remain. :))) If the idea of holding a tournament for the second game simultaneously is of interest, I am ready to help with the organization and judging.
For now, Qwerty seems very unwilling to deal with organizational issues, but then he can boast about how he saved the tournament and reconciled everyone in a hopeless situation. It should be understood that the honorable opportunity to invite old players to the SoD tournament, as listed by Eric, will be entrusted to Eric himself.
I haven't been to the club on Frunzenskaya, but according to Vova and Stingray, it's small, and they even doubted whether it was worth holding one tournament. Holding several tournaments in parallel, as I understand it, is even more problematic. Staggering the times will definitely be necessary.

Personally, I was hoping to drop by the SoD tournament to, in addition to meeting the participants, give someone a good thrashing in the second game, because I have a debt to settle, but with this approach to organization, it seems that it will remain just a dream.
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Why is this? The tournament was supposedly planned not as some general oversized party, but as a competition. Why is there now an affront to the sporting principle in particular and common sense in general?

Let the tournament be held on SoD, but not as a qualifier.

If SoD was simply necessary to gather a quorum in Michurinsk, then with Moscow things are different.
__________________

I disagree with the phrase "general oversized party." If you count all the players from Bay, World, Portal, and League (specifically club and online players), it's a laughable number; as I wrote before, one Lord Maniac used to gather just as many for club tournaments in St. Petersburg alone.
Therefore, there is no such thing as too many people. Now the respected Yama-Dharma (wowa) has returned, and the Moscow tournament immediately gained momentum; they were right to urge him to return. Armagedda has returned. More people will return (not just anyone, but true Players with a capital P), and the community will be stronger.
This is obvious.

I see no violation of the sporting principle: there are two organizers, and if they gather rosters of at least 12 people (not the same players, but different ones), well, that's great.
In the good old days, Moscow used to gather 60 people for a tournament, just Chaosites. And then there were the Leaguers and Portalists.
It should be understood that the honorable opportunity to invite the old players mentioned by Erik to a SoD tournament will be entrusted to Erik himself.

I can only [invite] those from Michurinsk: either those who moved to Moscow long ago, or those who would happily travel for a day or two to play.
By the way (although now, given the somewhat heightened emotional background, this seems unlikely), it would have been possible to simultaneously hold a duel tournament for the fifths and maybe even a small round-robin for the seconds...

It will be difficult to run even two tournaments, TE and SoD simultaneously; if we scatter our forces on the second and the fifth, then it's not worth starting at all.
I haven't been to the club on Frunzenskaya, but according to Vova and Stingray — it's small, they even doubted the feasibility of holding a single tournament. Running several in parallel, as I understand it, is even more problematic. Staggering them by time will definitely be necessary.

+1.
In reply to PReDS
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PReDS
He knows it better than many, but he doesn't like it.

I don't like SoD and CMs, so what?

Added 9 minutes later
Nagan-4
Eugene, let's take it step by step. You probably accepted SoD in Kyiv because you were a strong player in SoD. At least in 2004 (I think you played with Antal and you were just a little short of winning).
I assume that Forrest and others also started playing SoD, and they liked it so much that they stayed in Heroes... but I won't get into a discussion about TE and SoD.
Eric, again with your guesses, it's unclear what they're based on :). I accepted SoD because I respect the organizers' position and don't impose my own rules on someone else's territory. Besides, I didn't have the goal of getting into the finals at any cost; I just wanted to chat and play, even if it was in SoD, in a pleasant, friendly atmosphere. And issuing ultimatums doesn't contribute to that at all, you'll agree. By the way, I've never been a strong player.
Nagan-4
Regarding the pride of SoD players. Don't TE players have pride? The question is different. To accept or not accept TE (especially TE-lite), you need to understand it.
Eric, this is just funny (I'm talking about the words "especially TE-lite :)").

I won't comment further, I'll just note for myself that you've remained in 2004, in Krasnodar, and are still trying to revive those times, attract long-dead dinosaurs, etc. Why? Live in the present.

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