Discussion: Balance template, features, and tactics. — Tactics

Avern

16 years ago

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Since we have a match against Gamerhome on this map (most likely), I suggest discussing its features.
The detailed tactical and technical characteristics of this map are described here: Balance
But it would be interesting to learn the tactical secrets of playing on this map from experienced players.

IMHO
On a balance where there are almost no resources left, and hives are grouped in zones 5 and 10, castles that excel with level 1 and 2 heroes gain particular strength. After all, each player has their native village in the starting zone. That is, Necropolis, Fortress, Dungeon retain their positions, but Rampart is not so strong anymore.
It is extremely important on this balance to reach the only treasury before your opponent. And the advantage of starting as a mage is not very clear to me.

*grand merci VBN

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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I'm not a master, of course... but IMO, the best option for this template would be to start with Castle and Warlock. Archers in double size at the start are a great offensive force!
I agree about Dungeon and Necropolis. They will fit well within the framework of this template. Conflux is just so-so... The bonus here is only for air units, but I'm not sure if they will be very helpful. Also, IMO, Tower would be a good choice to play (if you look at the starting position). Rampart, Swamp, Inferno, and Stronghold are not very relevant either (unless it's TE + Tyraxor, but with the Chinese, TE won't be available).

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

Wlk777

16 years ago

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The One...

Not relevant. Swamp.

Oh, really? I think Vishtan will definitely be at least as strong as Valeska here.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Wlk777

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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Wlk777

Really? I think Vistan will be at least as strong as Valeska here.

Hmm... taking Vistan as a starting hero for the Swamp faction? IMHO, it's far from the best option.
But if the Swamp faction is chosen on this template, well, it's a viable option... But not more than that. The strength of the Swamp faction isn't in the lizards... And the ranged attack of the hero will likely just take up an unnecessary slot.

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

Wlk777

16 years ago

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The One...

Hmm... choosing the Swamp as a starting faction? IMHO, it's far from the best option...
But if the Swamp was chosen for this template, well, it's a valid option... But no more. The Swamp's strength isn't in the lizards... And the ranged attack will just take up an extra slot.

After a few games with Vistana, I realized that he's not inferior to Valiska, for example. Recently, on the second week, I managed to conquer a max-difficulty map with 60+ griffin riders, 5 ducks, 8 vasas, and a weak devourer. In this scenario, the flies didn't dare to attack the griffins even once. Valiska, with her marksmen, would have taken a beating in a similar situation, but Vistana only lost the devourer and 6 vasas. In fact, almost all the Swamp units are no worse than the Castle units and are generally stronger, and they are also cheaper to build. You're also wrong about the griffins; they can do a lot of damage in the first or second week. I would probably choose the Swamp as one of the first factions for balance.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Wlk777

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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Wlk777

After a few games, he realized that Vistan is in no way inferior to, for example, Valesk. Recently, on the second week, he entered a max-lair with 60+ grubs, 5 ducks, 8 wasps, and a weak devourer. So, the flies didn't dare to bite the grubs even once. Valesk, with marks, would have taken a beating in a similar situation, but Vistan only lost the devourer and 6 basilisks. In general, almost all swamp creatures are no worse than castle creatures and are clearly stronger overall, and also cheaper to build. You're wrong about the grubs too; they can do a lot of damage in the first or second week. I would probably choose the Swamp as one of the first options for a balanced game.

Well, let's just say that the Swamp is my favorite Castle to play as :rolleyes: And I've played many games with it... For lairs, you need to go in with hydras and quick combat on the second week ;) You can get by without losses (or with 1-3 gnolls as backup).

That swamp creatures are no worse than castle creatures – that's a given! :D But in a balanced game, I wouldn't consider it a priority because of the native town. But I repeat, everything said is IMHO.

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

Kash

16 years ago

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The One That...

Hmm... choosing the Swamp as a starting town for Vistana? IMHO, it's far from the best option...
But if the Swamp was chosen for this template, well, it's a valid option... But not more than that. The Swamp's strength isn't in the lizards... And the ranged attack will likely just take up an extra slot for the hero.

I'll risk disagreeing. :) Vistana at least has one valuable skill at the start, unlike Valkyrie, who often remains with her parents, judging by the reports. And ranged attacks can be useful. And Vistana usually levels up normally. And 30-40 elite lizards on the first map – that's a really powerful army. Sam recently raided a max-level gnome town online; Valkyrie can't compare to Vistana.

SpiriTT

16 years ago

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Vistan is bad. ??? Well, this is too much... he's clearly better than Vali...

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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Okay, okay! You showered me with suggestions :)
Suggest your priorities for this template.

P.S. At least we started discussing the template... otherwise, the topic would have died out right from the start.

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Kash

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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Kash

And having 30-40 Lizardmen on the first level – that’s a really powerful army.

Hmm... to upgrade the Lizardmen, you’ll have to give up some Hydras. I’m not sure – I’d think about it some more, whether it’s worth it. But I probably play Swamp in a one-sided way, always with pre-defined priorities. I’ll have to try this tactic too... I’ll see what happens.:smile01:

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

Avern

16 years ago

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I'll defend Flaks; Air units are about power and speed in the early game, and their average damage (2-8) of 5 is definitely comparable to Lizards and Archers. Plus, if you don't upgrade Air units, they'll get a bonus from the Attack skill.
And the Air attack holds up just as well as Lizards (thanks to better defense and health stats). It's just a shame that the growth rate is lower: 6 versus 9.

In terms of balance, the advantage will go to whoever reaches Tier 3 faster and can better raid the Hive.
And which castle is best at raiding Hives?

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

Wlk777

16 years ago

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The One That...

MMM... to upgrade the lizards, you'll have to give up some hydras. I'm not sure if it's worth it. :

Haha, and what do you think is worse, a swamp from 1-6 in a castle compared to a castle with knights? ;) Hydras are good, but you can easily do without them. I personally consider using them in early game for a quick win to be unfair, exploiting bugs, and I wouldn't allow myself to do it. I'll just look disapprovingly at opponents who use this (although I won't complain).

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

Avern

16 years ago

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Here's another argument in favor of Flax: the probability of another (neutral) Conflux appearing on the map is 50%, just like Necropolis in zones 3 or 4. Moreover, this is already a city, not a village. Regarding the Swamp – reaching Hydras is, in my opinion, the main option, while Gorgons + Vivas are a backup plan if resources are scarce.

In reply to Avern

Ta Kotoraya...

16 years ago

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Avern

Here's another argument in favor of Flax: the probability of another (neutral) Conflux appearing on the map is 50%, just like the Necropolis - in zones 3 or 4.

And here's something I forgot... Yes, there's a really good bonus here! I won't even argue. And the Necropolis further strengthens its position!

Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...

In reply to Ta Kotoraya...

Oelm

16 years ago

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I'll explain why I stopped playing balanced games with the Dungeon faction:
Here, a simple Necromancer strategy can often be decisive. Start with any faction, even Inferno. Look for a Necromancer in the tavern (ideally, several, and Aislinn works well), and start summoning skeletons with them. Once you have a Necropolis, convert all your low-level units, and you can basically start breaking the enemy's Castle (while also taking their resources) or attacking the opponent.

If the balance excludes the Dungeon faction, then the priority is to break the enemy's Castle early and take their treasure. The Miner is unmatched, and Valeska and Vistan are also good choices. As an alternative, Tiras/Crag with wolves can also work. By day 122, you need to start thinking about how to break through the enemy's defenses. The difficulty level affects the choice of strategy. On 160%, I think a medium-sized Castle is a good choice.

Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.