Solmyr, Demeer, and Aislin are cheaters (and/or) kamikazes; do the rest have a right to exist? — Polls

Avern

16 years ago

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How does Solmyr fare in dwarven skirmishes and canned battles? Valeska handles it a bit better.
Thuris arrives with his troops and sees Solmyr. In terms of tactics, everyone moves forward, engages in close combat, and even chain lightning won't save him.

Here are some more thoughts on tactical matters: the opponent has Solmyr as a kamikaze unit with seven fast units (let's say Gargoyles), and a bit further back, a group with the rest of the army. The opponent sends a hero-interceptor with seven squads (not single units, but small squads), let's say Dwarves. And it turns out that either Solmyr has to flee, or he has to spend his mana reserve on a spell.

In any case, the game becomes more dynamic.

P.S. and you can put the dwarves in one stack, let Solmyr self-destruct :D

In reply to Avern

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Avern

And how does Solmyr fare in the gnome stables and conservatories? Valessa holds up better under fire.

Where Valessa will take no losses, Solmyr may just straight up lose.
Therefore:

Lider1

Valessa rides out on the second week with her archers, and Solmyr rides out with KS 5-6-7-8, and he hits the archers with a Pesti-lash, how does that go??

Fighter will arrive on the second week with a larger army, since it's easier for him to fight without losses, and if he finds a Griffin Conservatory, then with angels — which will give him the first turn, possibly with mass magic — what would be the outcome of such a battle? Think for yourselves

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Lider1

16 years ago

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These are all artificial scenarios. In reality, a suicidal mage would cause a lot of trouble...

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

Avern

16 years ago

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But I would play as a wizard. My favorite is Demeer, and Solmyr is also great!

In reply to Lider1

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Lider1

These are all artificial situations. In reality, a kamikaze mage will cause a lot of trouble...

If a kamikaze hero, who heroically dies and gives away artifacts while severely damaging the opponent, is actually good, then what's the point? In general, such mage heroes like Solmyr and Dimir should be able to compete on equal footing with fighters and bring victories.

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Wlk777

16 years ago

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Lider1

These are all artificial situations. In reality, a mage is a kamikaze, and they can cause a lot of trouble...

In reality, starting with a mage is a huge risk, and not everyone will dare to do it. Besides, kamikaze mages are not available in all castles. Furthermore, the maximum that mages can hope for is a rush in the second week, and even then, there are many reasons why it might not work out; the risk is enormous. The chance of getting a free kamikaze mage in the tavern is small and equal for both sides. Warriors have many advantages; even by the second week, they have a good chance of gathering enough angels and ducks that magic might not be able to save them. And the further the game goes, the less chance mages have (in most cases). IMHO.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

Ple-Sen

16 years ago

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By the way, I was thinking, maybe someone could conduct an experiment, for example, Shakti vs. Deemer, to show whether mages are strong or not?=) Then I think the question will be resolved XD

In reply to Ple-Sen

Wlk777

16 years ago

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Ple-Sen

By the way, I was thinking, maybe someone could conduct an experiment, for example, Shakti vs. Deemer, to show whether mages are strong or not?=) Then I think the question will be resolved XD

One or even several matches won't prove anything; the situations can be completely different, favorable for a шахтёр or for a солмира...

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Ple-Sen

By the way, I was thinking, maybe someone could conduct an experiment, for example, Shakti vs. Deemer, to show whether mages are strong or not?=) Then I think the question will be resolved XD

Mages aren't strong; this is proven by hundreds of games on various sites, but they should be strong, and something needs to be changed for that! And there's no need to be afraid that they will replace melee units, as there are many counter-tactics, starting from mass haste, tactics, critical strike, cloak of defiance, amulet of lightning resistance, resistance, shackles, an advantage in hit points, in tempo, independence from fountains, etc.

Wlk777

One or even several matches won't prove anything; the situations can be completely different, favorable for a miner or for a solmyr...

Of course, for such an experiment, you need to take 2 players with equal skill and have them play at least 5 matches.

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scorp

16 years ago

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Hello

Are you just chatting here or do you want to resolve something?

It's not worth comparing mages and warriors in the fight against neutrals - since the rules don't forbid this without building a Mage Guild of the required level!

And if someone likes playing as mages, who's stopping them?

Solmir is no competitor to Dimer; chain lightning is much stronger than meteor shower and hardly anyone will take same start as Dimer's Dungeon (because there will be no start), but some play Ainu as Tower (+350 gold) - she is far from a warrior and she is well-managed by gremlins, and here you also get such deadly magic for free, so what is the fighter's fault that later he has to fight through with blood and lost warriors? Does it mean some get things for free while others don't? Well, then be on equal terms, because it's not that hard for a mage to take resources from neutrals.

His chain lightning kills an angel almost at level 1!!! and when arriving up to 127 to the opponent, salvation is only in the open field and with mass haste, because during the assault of the Castle, block the gates and fire magic (there are different situations, but almost always the mage will win, not counting those cases where Dragon Utopia falls; then no one can stop them).

In reply to scorp

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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If playing as mages were effective, everyone would play them. First of all, point 5.2.2, which prohibits the transfer of spells without leveling up magic skills, remains in effect! Secondly, it is much more difficult to defend resources with mages, not to mention countering creatures, hives, and Dragon Utopias. As for always winning, that's certainly not a given. But if lifting the ban helps win more often when playing as Tower, then that’s only a plus and will balance out the cities. Look at the statistics for Tower: **Summer 2009 – 38 wins / 59 losses, or 39%**. And in other seasons, the same trend can be seen: **out of 133 games in Winter + Spring 2009, only 36%.** When in a balanced version, it should be **50%!** **Tower is the city with the lowest percentage of wins.** And here, we need to do more than just talk; we need to make decisions. Why is it okay if you win with an overpowered Kirra, Shakti, or Tazar, but if Solmyr does it, it needs to be prohibited by the rules?

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Dirty_Player

16 years ago

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bRitvo4kA

If playing as a mage was effective, everyone would play as one.

If it were possible to play as Solmyr, everyone would play as him! Because Solmyr is overpowered; on the second level, he can deal significant damage and has enough mana for about four spells. People won't play as Deemer and Aislin anyway, as long as Shakti and Galtran exist... But it could be interesting to try it out. If it becomes too unbalanced, you can always ban him again.

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Kostya, it's unclear what your claims are based on. You don't have to look far for examples. Here's the experience of a friendly resource, wcl, where you can take and use Solmyr however you want, and even come and rush on day one. Open the "All Games" tab and see which heroes the site's players are using for Tower. And when you choose a hero for your folder, you choose the best one available at the moment! If you find it difficult, here are the latest reports: Tazar (Tower) defeated Adela (Tower), Random Midnight mix, XL+u Kyrre (Tower) defeated Iona (Tower), Random True Random, XL+u Shakti (Tower) defeated Gurnisson (Stronghold), Random True Random, XL+u Mephala (Tower) lost to Wystan (Swamp), Random Jebus, XL Shiva (Tower) lost to Kyrre (Rampart), Random Jebus, XL Valeska (Tower) defeated Gunnar (Swamp), Random Midnight mix, XL+u Alkin (Tower) defeated Tazar (Swamp), Random Balance, L It doesn't go on any further, but it was the same before, and I've been following it. For Tower, they often take a fighter from other factions. These are real facts, not just speculation.

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In reply to bRitvo4kA

Dirty_Player

16 years ago

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bRitvo4kA

Kostya, I don't understand what your statements are based on.

The statements are based on mathematics.

FizMiG

Each time a hero reaches level N, which is a multiple of the unit level n against which the spell is used, the damage from using the spell increases by 3/n% for each level N reached by the specialist:

D=(SP*40+100)*(1+[N/n]*0.03),
where N is the hero's level, n is the unit's level (specified for the Air Magic expert), and the integer part is taken. Round up.

The calculation mechanism looks like this: first, the base damage of the spell is determined for each of the stacks of units that have been attacked - four (at the basic and advanced magic levels) and five (at the expert level) stacks receive damage, which is halved from unit to unit, and each time we round down. Then, the base damage is modified for each stack of enemy units according to the formula above, depending on the level of the units in the stack.

For example, Solmyr with expert Air and Magic, level 10, spell power 7. The damage of the first attack is:
Level 1 monsters: 568 (94 Hell Hounds or Skeletons, 142 Master Gremlins)
Level 2 monsters: 502 (50 Marksmen or Wolves, 35 Lizards, 40 Air Elementals :eek:)
Level 3 monsters: 480 (32 Grand Elves)
.................................................................
Level 7 monsters: 455 (2 Angels, 3 Bears or Birds)
And this is just the first attack. And there are 5 attacks, although the rest deal less damage... I understand that there may be other advantages as well.

P.S.: Personally, I don't care what rules we play by, and I will start with Nelk, I just provided the facts.

P.P.S.: And why are fighters more effective than mages? Has anyone thought about it? Because it's much easier to turn a fighter into a decent mage than to turn a mage into a fighter! A fighter can easily acquire the necessary magical skills, equip himself with artifacts that increase spell power, and he's ready. But will a mage be given luck, attack, and defense? That's the question. And mages often get useless skills like "Learning" or "Eagle Eye," which are not needed. With such "balance," mages will never be on par with warriors, and it will never be 50/50! We need to delve deeper into the game itself, and that's already up to the developers...

bRitvo4kA

16 years ago

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Mathematics is certainly an exact science, but in practice, things look a bit different. A hero crawling around the map of Solmyr without logic, without mana, or with mana running out, losing troops in every battle, afraid to take on Gnomes, Consuls, or Hives. And a flying fighter like Kirr, or Gunnara with expert logistics, a ton of artifacts, twice the level, and often even with magical stats like Solmyr.

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