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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” Auto-translated

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#446
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Dirty_Player
It seems we discussed this topic many pages ago (or it was in the rules). In general, "red rush" is a controversial concept. For example, if I attack a weak player with a growth bonus, and he has a unit with 1 attack, does that mean I lost? I don't think the weak player cares.
And a "red rush" on a mine is something out of a bad joke :D But it would be funny if there was a guard in the mine, and someone attacked it on day 121 :D


Jokes aside, if we don't amend the rules, Blue will be legally right if he wants to claim victory in this way.

After all, our rules state that Red with a growth bonus on 1.2.1 cannot attack Blue. And now, try to prove that a Mine or Castle is not considered "Blue".

We can simply describe game situations to which the "red rush" rule will not apply.

For example: the "red rush" rule should not apply to:
1. Mines.

Regarding attacking a weak player, I cannot agree that attacking him is not a "red rush", because a weak player can be a very important link in the chain
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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#447
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Dirty_Player
We discussed this topic many pages ago (or it was in the rules). In general, "red rush" is a debatable concept. For example, if I attack a weak enemy with a unit that has a growth bonus, and I lose, does that mean I lost? I don't think the weak enemy cares.
And a "red rush" on a mine is just silly. But it would be funny if there was a guard in the mine, and they were attacked with a unit on level 121, for example.
It's all a joke, but... :D However, the question is serious. Red has its advantages, and blue has its own, and we need to clarify whether it would be legal for red, with a new growth bonus, to capture an empty castle (there may be disagreements about whether a castle with one unit is considered empty, etc.). So, I'm listening to opinions; I'll refrain from making definitive statements for now. ;)
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
In reply to Wlk777
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#448
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What about this situation: Blue, at level 117, breaks through the metro guards and goes down. At level 121, Red, with reinforcements coming from above, enters the metro, and an automatic attack occurs... and that's it. I suggest this: A "RED RUSH" should not be considered a battle if the presence of reinforcements does not affect the outcome or losses. or this: A "RED RUSH" should be considered a battle if the presence of reinforcements does affect the outcome or losses. We need to think about elevators and monoliths...
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#449
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Dirty_Player
What about this kind of trick: Blue, on turn 117, breaks through the metro guard and goes down. On turn 121, Red, with reinforcements coming from above, enters the metro, and an attack automatically occurs... and that's it :)

I suggest this:
A RED-RUSH should NOT be considered a battle where the presence of reinforcements does not affect the outcome and losses
or like this:
A RED-RUSH is considered a battle where the presence of reinforcements does affect the outcome and losses

We need to think about elevators and monoliths...
Plus one =)
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
In reply to КостяN
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#450
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КостяN
Doesn't it make no difference to an empty Castle whether 20 Archers capture it or 40? (And I'm not even talking about a Mine:rolleyes: ...)?
It does make a difference. If the main hero with a growth bonus has fallen behind the scout and cannot capture an empty Castle, Mine, or resource node without a growth bonus, then let him capture it the next day. Otherwise, it's unfair to the blue player.

Added 4 minutes later
Dirty_Player
What about this kind of trick: blue attacks the guard in the Metro on day 117 and goes down. On day 121, red with a growth bonus enters the Metro from above, and an attack automatically occurs... and that's it :)
You just need to load a save and replay.
Dirty_Player

I suggest this:
A RED-RUSH is NOT considered a battle in which the presence of a growth bonus does not affect the outcome and losses
or like this:
A RED-RUSH is considered a battle in which the presence of a growth bonus affects the outcome and losses

Well, we need to think about elevators and monoliths...

Players may have different opinions on whether or not it has an impact. :)
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
In reply to Wlk777
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#451
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Red-Rush is Red-Rush. And there's no need to distort the rules and make some kind of exception...
I took the mine on turn 121, so what, but taking a castle or a hideout is a direct threat to the opponent and the rule!!!
You can upload a save, saying that you forgot or got distracted. But staging a circus, I don't think it will lead to anything....
Kids in a sandbox!!!
Ушел с героев, пока пряники)
In reply to SEM_56
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#452
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Due to recent discussions, the following changes and additions are planned for section 5.5 of the rules regarding red rush: Replace:
5.5. The so-called "red rush" is prohibited; that is, a player playing as red is not allowed to attack blue on the first day of the week with reinforcements purchased on that day. However, troops arriving with a hero purchased on that day can be used.
with:
5.5. The so-called "red rush" is prohibited; that is, a player playing as red is not allowed to attack on the first day of the week with reinforcements purchased on that day:

a) against blue's Castle (even if the Castle is not guarded).
b) against blue's heroes or guarded mines if having reinforcements may affect the outcome of the battle or losses in the battle for either player.

* Troops arriving with purchased heroes, as well as troops from ambushes, pandoras, etc., can be used without restrictions.
* The concept of red rush applies only to Castles, heroes, and mines.
* The concept of red rush does not apply if both heroes end up on opposite sides of a portal or underground gate during an attack (i.e., on different sides of the portal).
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
In reply to Yakudza
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#453
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I would be grateful for an rmg.txt file with templates edited for normal gameplay. What would you recommend? I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, but I'm sure that the online experts have already found a solution. Please send any "reliable" version to my email: ambersoler@mail.ru.

Thank you in advance. Sorry for the off-topic.
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
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#454
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/topic/3515/
Here's a thread with the rules. At the end of the first post, there’s an RMG template called 2sm4d(3), which is the most popular one on ХВ
In reply to vbn
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#455
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vbn

5.5. The so-called "red rush" is prohibited, meaning that a player playing with the red color is not allowed to attack on the first day of the week with reinforcements purchased on that day:

a) on the Castle of the blue player (even if the Castle is not guarded).
Red rush on the opponent's Castle.

I believe that in the vast majority of cases, a red rush is carried out using archers and flying units as reinforcements. Therefore, it would be sufficient to simply implement a restriction: if a Castle (theoretically) is taken without the participation of flying and ranged units (ballista not included), using only magic and melee units, then it should not be considered a red rush. This is a less controversial criterion than "if the presence of reinforcements can affect the outcome of the battle or the losses in the battle for either player." Although, of course, it doesn't cover 100% of cases, but in most cases, it shouldn't cause complaints from players...
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to Yakudza
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#456
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Quote from another resource, but I think the idea is worth considering: "Resurrection up to the 3rd day. After such a restart, the player who used it should choose another hero (this will slightly change the balance of the factions, but it will also reduce the number of restarts - I think it's worth it)." Perhaps such a rule will reduce the time wasted on restarts, even if only slightly. And Tavern, Barbarian, and Inferno will become more popular...
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
In reply to Javdet
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#457
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Javdet
Quote from another resource, but I think it's a worthwhile idea:
"Re-rolls are allowed up to the 3rd day. After such a restart, the player who took the re-roll should take another hero (it will slightly change the balance of the factions, but it will also reduce the number of restarts - I think it's worth it)."

This rule might slightly reduce the time spent on restarts. And Tavern, Barbarian, and Inferno will become more popular...

The easiest way to reduce the time spent on restarts is to reduce the restarts themselves, 2x111 or 1x112, and one meeting at 115.
This is a really effective scheme; even with all the restarts, it takes about half an hour at most!

P.S. Although it's a good idea! :D
In reply to Slav4eG
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#458
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Today, an explanation has been added to section 5.5 of the rules regarding red rushing.
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
In reply to Yakudza
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#459
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Sorry if this has already been discussed, I couldn't find it in the thread.
5.12. It is forbidden to enter neighboring territories without breaking through the guard standing at the passage (i.e., if it is moved). If two or three guards are scattered along the road, any one can be broken through.
In the absence of a passage guard, including a moved one, it is allowed to freely move from one spawn point to another.
Doesn't the last sentence contradict the first? Are spawn point and territory different things?
Военное дело просто и вполне доступно здравому уму человека. Но воевать сложно.
In reply to Ivanhoj
#460
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Ivanhoe
Sorry if this has been discussed already, I didn't find it in the thread. Doesn't the last sentence contradict the first?
Are respawn and territory different things?
I'm more interested in the question of when an opponent goes to a respawn, sees a guard (shifted), but there's a high probability that there was a guard on the road here, but the opponent killed it. Asking the opponent means giving yourself away (if they weren't there), but it's also unwise to waste, for example, penalty movement points through a swamp to break through a shifted guard if it turns out the opponent fought the guard here and the player can actually pass without breaking through. There was an example of exiting the underground somewhere on the forum, I think.
My second question is about the rules, because quite recently I encountered this in a game (playing against an opponent under HeroesWorld rules):
"5.2.1. All level 4 magic specialist heroes, as well as Tante (Animate Dead), may use their signature spells against an opponent in the following cases:
a) if the corresponding level of the Mage Guild (MG) has been built in any of the controlled castles. If these castles do not have the required MG level, then it is necessary to fully build all levels of the MG in any two castles that belong to you. Or capture an opponent's castle with the required MG already built (it doesn't matter how long the captured castle will be under control). Visiting this castle with a hero is not mandatory;
b) find and visit the "Shrine of Magic Thought" with the Animate Dead spell with any hero;
c) If any of your heroes receives the corresponding spell from a Pandora's Box, pyramid, after visiting a sage, or in a spell book (even if this hero does not have sufficient Wisdom skill to learn this spell).
Against neutral monsters, as well as against a computer (if such is present on the map), level 4 magic specialists and Tante may use their signature spell without the above restrictions."
In the game, my main hero took empty Pandora's boxes (I had no Wisdom, but I did have a spell book), and a couple of turns later I attacked the opponent's main hero with Solmyr and thinned them out with Chain Lightning. I can't know if the Pandora's boxes gave the entire 4th level or the entire 5th level, but not using a good opportunity to thin out the opponent's resources I also consider a crime against strong play.