Posts from Discussion about Heroes I.

Regarding the pathfinding bug, I've also attached a save file for clarification, pbb2.zip, see above. P.S. A joint inter-resource tournament for Heroes 1 (HW_HP_HL) will start today or tomorrow, don't miss it!!! :smile20: Sincerely, VDV_forever

I can't seem to figure out (and I couldn't find it in the manual, maybe I didn't search well enough) the attack algorithm for monsters in the following situations:
1) when there is an opportunity to attack multiple units without moving.
2) when there is an opportunity to approach multiple units.
3) when there is an opportunity to fly to multiple units.
It seemed that flying units should be prioritized for attack, but this is not always the case.

I can't seem to figure out (and I couldn't find it in the manual, maybe I didn't search well enough) the attack algorithm for monsters in the following situations:
1) when there is an opportunity to attack multiple units without moving.
2) when there is an opportunity to move to multiple units.
3) when there is an opportunity to fly to multiple units.
It seemed that flying units should be prioritized for attack, but this is not always the case.

I don't quite understand the question. Are you talking about auto-battle mode? It would be better to consider a specific situation as an example. Please provide a screenshot.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

No screenshot is needed here. In the second game, there is a clear algorithm: if monsters can reach the archers, they attack them, then the flying units attack, and if there is nothing like that, then the ground units attack. Moreover, the strongest unit is attacked; if there is a choice, then, for example, titans and dragons are attacked first. There must be some attack algorithm in the first game as well. Regarding the archers, it seems clear. But with the flying units, it seems that there isn't one. For example, I placed a pikeman and a unicorn sprite, and it attacked the horse. Does the pikeman move forward and can approach the sprite or unicorn, will it definitely go the shortest way, or just wherever it looks? And similarly, which units will the flying units attack first? I will, of course, figure this out myself, but it is not always possible to implement the full diversity of situations.

No screenshot is needed here. In the second game, there is a clear algorithm: if monsters can reach the ranged units, they attack them; then, flying units attack; and if there is nothing like that, then the ground units attack. Moreover, the strongest unit is attacked; if there is a choice, then, for example, Titans and Dragons are targeted first. There must be some attack algorithm in the first game as well. Regarding ranged units, it seems clear. But it seems that there is no such thing for flying units. For example, I placed a Pikeman and a Unicorn, and it attacked the Horseman. If the Pikeman moves forward and can reach the Sprite or Unicorn, will it definitely go the shortest way, or will it just go wherever it looks? And similarly, which units will flying units attack first? I will, of course, figure this out myself, but it is not always possible to implement the full diversity of situations.

Indeed, there is such an algorithm in the first game (and it is not mentioned in the manual), and it is different from the second game and the other parts! To create some excitement, I will say that there are situations when the computer will never attack ranged units controlled by the player!:smile13:
I am also working on this issue..., but the material is not ready yet, and frankly, there is not enough time to describe all the moments. :o

P.S. 5 points for the question! Thank you!

Sincerely, VDV_forever

VDV_forever: I reviewed the save file. Indeed, with the same initial conditions, two different possible paths become available. I'm puzzled. This contradicts the claim that the battle map is unique given fixed player actions. We need to investigate further. It would be great to find another example of multiple possible paths. Ideally, three or more. There's a hypothesis about the number of possible paths depending on the number of levels a hero gains after a battle, but it's likely incorrect... It's also possible that it depends on the presence of creatures with abilities in the army. We need to test this.

VDV_forever: I reviewed the save file. Indeed, with the same initial conditions, two possible battle outcomes (PPB) are generated. I'm puzzled. This contradicts the claim that the battle map is unique given fixed player actions. We'll investigate. It would be great to find another example of multiple PPBs. I'd like to find three or more. There's a hypothesis about the number of PPBs depending on the number of levels the hero gains after the battle, but it's likely incorrect... There could also be a dependence on the presence of creatures with abilities in the army. We need to test this.

Actually, it doesn't contradict anything, since these PPBs alternate constantly ;) The real question is why they appear (2, or maybe 3 or more)!?
I also thought that the number of PPBs depends on the level gained after the battle, but I didn't draw such conclusions without testing this hypothesis.

Today, I set aside a couple of hours and tested it. With 1, 2, 3, and 4 levels gained by the hero after the battle, the result is the same – only one PPB is generated!

Thus, the two PPBs obtained randomly in the battle are a very rare occurrence and possibly a rare exception (although the algorithm for their appearance is understandable and obvious!) and how it is formed remains a mystery... which makes it even more interesting:smile08:

//Although there is an assumption (hypothesis) that the number of PPBs does not exceed 2 and depends on the attacked stacks at the beginning of the battle//

I will try to upload the save files of these battles tomorrow.

P.S. Miracles don't happen; we'll keep testing:smile01:

Sincerely, VDV_forever

//Although there is an assumption (hypothesis) that the number of power-up bonuses does not exceed 2, and depends on the attacking stacks at the beginning of the battle//

Today I was lucky and encountered another battle with the formation of two power-up bonuses. I can confidently say that this hypothesis is also incorrect, unfortunately:( However, the number of power-up bonuses does not exceed 2, which is already a positive:smile03:

P.S. I am preparing material on this section and will send it for review soon:smile41:

Added after 21 hours 11 minutes
Today, while preparing the material, I encountered a new feature!
In short, I was preparing a hero vs. hero battle in the "field." I recorded the power-up bonuses (although I didn't take a screenshot). After returning from lunch and reloading the heroes (naturally, a new session), this power-up bonus didn't want to repeat, but instead, a new power-up bonus started to form with the same actions! Moreover, it happens regularly, 100% of the time, and in different sessions! The worst thing is that the previous power-up bonus never formed, not even once, in the 7-10 sessions I managed to conduct!

P.S. The hero gains 8 levels after this battle!
P.S.S. Unfortunately, I forgot the saves at work again; I promise not to forget tomorrow and post them in this thread.

Hmm…

P.S. I'm starting to wonder if I overloaded my computer after exiting the game, after lunch? Maybe I'm the one who's glitching?

Sincerely, VDV_forever

I'm starting to remember if I overloaded my computer after exiting Heroes, after lunch?

It doesn't change anything.

Maybe I'm just glitching myself?

It happens sometimes :)

After returning from lunch and loading Heroes again (naturally, a new session), this PPB didn't want to repeat, but a new PPB started to form with similar actions!

Here, you need to check everything from start to finish: army arrangement, the cell from which you attack the enemy hero, etc. That is, the initial conditions must be the same. In addition, in your case, the first battle must be won for the PPB to form. Maybe you played the first battle incorrectly the second time (for example, you fled or paid them off)? Or, as an option, the first time you recorded not a PPB, but a random battle.

However, after your save with the double PPB, I'm already starting to doubt...

Here, you need to check everything from start to finish: the army arrangement, the tile from which you attack the enemy hero, etc. That is, the initial conditions must be the same. Also, in order for the Path of Purity to form, in your case, you must definitely win the first battle. Maybe you played the first battle incorrectly the second time (for example, you fled or bribed)?

The thing is, everything is the same. The battle is always won, and also in the first battle. I'm not testing it for the first time.;) I wonder, could it be that it formed 3-4 times in a row, and I just recorded it?
Tomorrow I will upload this "strange save". It will be interesting if you also test it.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

2VDV_forever: Technically, the "PPB" (Primary Perk Boost) phenomenon looks like this:
If a battle ends with a level up, the game should increase one or more primary skills of the victorious hero. It has long been observed that in the same save, when a selected hero gains a level, a specific skill always increases, i.e., for example, on the second level - attack, on the fifth - defense, etc. This is what the number R fixes. If you reload immediately after a battle in which a level was gained, there will be a PPB. If you perform actions after the battle that change R, the observed PPB "breaks." However, if you always perform the same actions after the battle, you can get different PPBs!

What is the secret of multiple PPBs?

During the testing of the morale, luck, and special ability drop mechanism, the respected VDV_forever managed to record cases of multiple PPBs appearing. In particular, cases of two alternating PPBs were found.

What is the cause of two PPBs appearing?
Are there cases of three or more PPBs appearing?
Is it possible for non-alternating PPBs to appear?

The following statements provide answers to all these questions:
1) The same unit cannot make more than two moves in one round (in other words, in one round, the same unit cannot have morale drop more than once);

2) Any check for the possibility of morale (luck, special ability) dropping changes the value of R.

Now let's consider a specific case described by VDV_forever.

The first PPB (the second battle of the session) ends with morale affecting the djinns. After that, they kill the last stack of dwarves. The battle ends with Barok gaining two levels. Reloading and repeating all the same actions as in the first PPB, we discover a "distortion" of the first PPB, namely, we get a second PPB! Note that the second PPB (the third battle in the session) no longer ends with morale!

So, the answer is obvious: in the second PPB, in the first round, the djinns DO NOT pass the morale check! Since in the previous battle they already received morale and killed the last stack of dwarves, they were demoralized (I note, just in case, that this is not a hypothesis, but a fact).

It can also be stated that:
a) a unit starting a battle will not pass the morale check in the first round (i.e., will not have the opportunity to move twice in that round) if the previous battle ended with the death of one unit after the morale of another;

b) if the battle (the first battle of the session) ended with the death of one unit after the morale of another, then the second battle will NOT be a PPB (exception: if the second battle also ends "on a morale turn," then it will be a PPB and, moreover, the only one).

c) the second PPB will appear only if the first ended "on a morale turn" and, in addition, the third battle (a candidate for the second PPB) did not end "on a morale turn."

Conclusions:
1) three or more PPBs are not possible (see note);
2) in the case of two PPBs, they will have an alternating character.

Note: if the third battle also ends with morale, then there will be only one PPB, and the previous second will be a "degenerate" PPB, i.e., it will not repeat.

In other words...
Let's denote a battle that did not end "on a morale turn" with the letter A.
Let's denote a battle that ended "on a morale turn" with the letter B.

If:
1) the first and second battles of the session belong to class A, then one PPB is generated (it will be the second battle);
2) the first and third battles of the session belong to class A, and the second to class B, then two PPBs are generated (the first PPB is the second battle, the second PPB is the third);

The remaining options are variations of the first two rules.

It's just that it's all the same. The battle is always won, and in the first battle as well. It's not the first time I'm testing it.;) I wonder, could it be that it formed consecutively 3-4 times?! and I recorded it?
Tomorrow I'll upload this "strange save". It will be interesting if you test it too.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Apparently, I'm already glitching after endless tests; it seems fatigue is taking its toll :p
Nevertheless, the section is ready!:smile12: I sent it to you (to AlexSpl) for review.:smile41:


Added 11 minutes later

2VDV_forever: Technically, the phenomenon of multiple PPB looks like this:
[/U]What is the secret of multiple PPB?

:smile20: When I sent the email with the material, I hadn't seen this post yet:o. As always, it's great!:smile20: The theory matches the practice, and that's doubly pleasing :smile03:
I really hope that you will study the material that I sent you by email and add the conclusions that are simply begging to be included in the introduction. After that, we will publish this section in the reference.:smile20:

Once again, I express my great gratitude to you for preparing numerous materials, writing programs, and conducting research (both practical and theoretical) on all parts of Heroes of Might and Magic, and especially on the first part!:smile13:

P.S. In this email, you will see another battle with double PPB where your theoretical knowledge and conclusions are fully confirmed by practice! I am simply amazed by your deep knowledge and the thoughts that almost always lead to an obvious and correct answer to any tricky questions, the answers to which do not immediately come to ordinary people!

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Here is a more detailed outline of the possible scenarios for the appearance of PPB.

P.S. I have sent the article. I hope it will be published in the reference guide soon!

Here is a more precise statement of the possible scenarios for the appearance of PvP.

P.S. I sent the article. I hope it will appear in the guide soon!

Greetings, esteemed AlexSpl!

I have sent you the material for approval again, taking into account your and my corrections. I hope you will review it with the same scrupulousness.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

2VDV_forever: I have fulfilled your request. Your turn :)

Added 17 hours and 4 minutes ago
You can also list the names: Luck: -3: Cursed, -2: Terrible, -1: Bad, 0: Normal, +1: Good, +2: Excellent, +3: Divine Morale: -3: Treacherous, -2: Terrible, -1: Bad, 0: Normal, +1: Good, +2: Excellent, +3: Bloodthirsty