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Posts from Should we ban the Griffin Conservatory and the Hive of Serpents?

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Would you prohibit visiting the Griffin Conservatory and the Serpent Nest?
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In reply to Wicc
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#19
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Wicc
Let me remind you that this discussion in this vein started with your remark: "I think all these arguments are crap."

Yes, before that, there was my phrase: "So, the idea is crap; we've seen it before."

But the difference between them is that my phrase is 1) true, 2) theoretically justified, and 3) practically justified.

Your phrase, on the other hand, is supported only by vague arguments like: "As far as I can see, most games are decided either by a rush or by whoever gets more ducks/angels. It's not serious when, in the 2nd week, they come with 7-9 angels; what kind of double-build can counter that?" And they are vague because if there are no ducks and angels, you get almost the same result, with the difference that the rush will be a little later, but it will be unstoppable (because they got hidden/native castles).
... I find your arguments to be vague, for example, the secondary castle, and even when using conservative/snail strategies, it greatly affects the course of the game. If you supposedly read what I wrote, then answer me this question: why does the ban on the "monster of the week" (2-5 miserable creatures that still need to be built and bought, at best) not cause any particular objections, and no one calls it at least a stupid idea, while getting much larger and practically free troops is considered absolutely normal?
In reply to Kash
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#21
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Kash
So, in my opinion, it's not the "canned" units that matter, but the ability to use advantages and turn unfavorable situations around.
Arguing isn't my thing. I said what I wanted to say.
Maybe you're right, but I, for example, am not interested in playing when, after scouting half the map, I find some minimal guard post and a couple of "canned" units with 4 and 6 attack, and then I take all of that, build up, and buy out my home territory, and wait for the opponent to show up in the 2nd or 3rd week with 10 angels, as often happens... what kind of home secondary units can compete with that...

Added after 3 minutes
Anyway, regarding the ban in the rules, I might have gotten carried away, I understand that it's unrealistic, but I still want to see a named vote, and I want to be able to play against those who don't mind without "canned" units and "canned" guards.
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#22
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Initially, I was completely in favor, but due to some arguments presented in this thread, I decided that unforeseen circumstances might arise as a result of banning Sanctuaries and Hives. However, in my opinion, it would be good to strengthen the role of native troops. For me, one of the main appeals has always been the race-versus-race confrontation with native troops! It's hard to express this in words.
P.S. This is, so to speak, the opinion of a newcomer – I would have a greater interest in Heroes of Might and Magic III online if native troops were more important than trophy Angels and Wyverns.
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
In reply to Wlk777
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#23
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[Off-topic]


I wrote that in the absence of can-hives, the number of outposts and native towns would be the deciding factor. And, unlike your ideas, the validity of this statement has been confirmed in practice (I wrote above how exactly).
if you supposedly read what I wrote, then answer my question: why does the ban on the monster of the week (2-5 miserable creatures that still need to be built and bought, at best) not cause any particular objections, and no one calls it at least a stupid idea, while getting much larger and practically free troops is considered absolutely normal?
Because they are given completely for free, without even needing to put in any effort (except to buy them), and no skill is required at all. And it doesn't affect the construction, by the way.

And banks need to be 1) found, 2) taken. Some are easier, some are harder. Also, they sometimes merge (you probably won't believe it, but it happens). Skill is a very important factor here. In addition, shaking up banks usually comes with losses, and often significant ones. There were games where 10+ angels came to visit people on the 2nd week and were immediately wiped out - after the remnants of the defense were destroyed, a blind attack followed, and then a reverse ladder of attacks without passing the turn.
[Off-topic]
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#27
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but for now, you're practically all alone.
You're wrong. Open your eyes – people aren't arguing with you because they haven't taken your words seriously for several months now. By the way, they've opened a poll, let's see who has more support here.
In reply to StickyFingaz
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#28
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StickyFingaz
You are wrong. Open your eyes – people don't argue with you because they haven't taken your words seriously for several months. By the way, they opened a poll, let's see who has more support here.

Moderated: FLOOD in the message

I suggest you, once again, before trying to act smart, learn how to play Heroes 3 a little better. I don't know about you as a debater, but I definitely don't perceive you as a serious online opponent, so, to be honest, your opinion doesn't hold much value for me:cool:, just like Wicc's. I haven't seen any reports from him in the relevant topic yet.
I think Alex_R, Dubrovin Pavel, and some other people generally agree with me on this topic.
P.S. I just took a closer look at the poll, and what is meant by the second item?
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#29
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[Okay... you wanted a strict moderator – you’ll get one soon!!! Wicc and Wlk777 – stop this nonsense. If you want to argue “in private” – feel free to do so in ICQ. One more offensive phrase or off-topic comment from either side – and I’ll add penalty points to BOTH of you!:mad: Wicc, I have a separate (and final) request – please use LITERARY language on the forum.
Ugh... sorry for the off-topic post.]


Now, back to the topic. I agree with Wicc – if there are no Hives/Dens, the number of hiding places will be very important (you can get money to ransom monsters in monetary buildings – although at this rate, they might ban those too! :D), and having a good secondary town will be important. Pieces of the Legion statue will be important too! And many other things! So, overall – I am against banning Dens/Hives. Definitely!
Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...
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#30
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It's a pity that I see almost no understanding from anyone; for me, online battles—which now mostly boil down to who can hand out more snails or cans (and many have already mastered how to take them)—are losing their appeal, which is why I try to rush whenever possible. By the way, it's extremely rare (at least on the most popular SM template) for there to be a big difference in the quantity and quality of caches, and with the native secondary skills, it's also easy to come up with something if needed. In general, it seems to me that people are simply too lazy to deal with their own troops—they just smash some Viv-Angels and head straight for Dragon Utopia—a degradation of game quality. IMHO of course =\
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#31
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The problem itself is relevant. It's just that the solution you proposed is even worse. That's why I created scripts to change the contents/guards, so there would be more variety in this regard. And I might also implement the idea of a "fee for entry."
In reply to Wicc
#32
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I just enjoy playing with Hives and Factories. I like it, and I'm not going to offer any "substantial arguments" to anyone:p
In reply to Wicc
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#33
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Wlk777
It's a pity that I don't see any understanding from almost anyone.
There is understanding, but the proposal is raw.
You say that you've been thinking about this for a long time, but I personally don't see any good proposals yet.
For example, I immediately thought that you could simply limit it, for example, to 1 conserve and one clue per week (the bonus accumulates).
Wicc
Well, the problem itself is relevant. It's just that the solution you proposed is even worse.
This is exactly what many people are thinking... the question determines the answer!
You are guaranteed to fail in the voting because the question itself leads to the fact that even those who see the problem will answer 90% "do not prohibit."
If there were at least some variety in the voting and a couple of good proposals for solving the problem, there would be something to choose from!

Regarding clues, you could also suggest an option - to reduce the reward by half, i.e., the maximum will bring only 6 wyverns, and the minimum only 2, but then it becomes difficult with the conserves....
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#34
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I suggest playing on fixed maps where there are no hives or Conservatories, or only very few. I agree with wlk777 that if a player has the striking power to take a hive or Conservatory, then with enough such objects available, the player's army grows very quickly in an arithmetic progression, unlike an opponent who relies on their own troops. And I agree that external dwellings don't solve as much as hives and Conservatories do. The probability of getting a level 7 external dwelling at the start is very low, and a level 6 one is also not high. Besides, you still have to pay gold for the troops from external dwellings. In short, I'm for it :smile01:
В дикім полі
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#35
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bRitvo4kA is right – go play with the fixes if you're already tired of the hero variety. :) For balance – the fixes are almost perfect (except for the fact that someone might get a Kir, Solmyr, or Shakti hero, while someone else gets a weak one).
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
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#36
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Is it possible to reduce the number of generated Sanctuaries and Hives by modifying the templates? If so, what could be the consequences?
aka Sir Holmes aka David Jones.
In reply to HoM[M]ie
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#37
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HoM[M]ie
Is it possible, by tinkering with the templates, to reduce the number of generated conservatories and hives? If so, what could this lead to?
It can be reduced. By editing the content ranges.

Consequences - a strong advantage for whoever gets the coveted maxed-out conservatory on respawn. Plus, some other objects may start appearing rarely (those similar in value to conservs/hives).

On the Panic template, conservatories seem to generate rarely, but whoever they do generate for...

You can also change the number of wyverns given in hives.

Everything written above can be implemented by adjusting Shadow of Death text files, without TE scripts.