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Holy moly. I just found out that you can't use air elementals to attack demons (and I guess not other creatures either).
That's surprising :D. You also can't use gargoyles, as they are undead. In general, Rampart is the perfect secondary faction for Inferno!
Featon
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How do you create demons from slain creatures in battle? Do you resurrect them using improved potions? And how do you create demons from undead creatures? Also, you can't do it with half of the creatures in the Conflux (butterflies and phoenixes won't work), and you can't resurrect demons from Necropolis creatures. Am I right, or am I mistaken?
WhiteWizard
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Joshua
I suggest discussing this topic-)
I play as this castle on impossible. Of course, I'm not a professional (since I limited myself to playing with acquaintances/LAN etc.), but in most cases, I wipe out opponents playing as Rampart/Necromancers and other strong castles (even with all banned heroes, skills, horrors of necromancy, and vampire-lord-ism permitted). I probably haven't played for the last 5 years, but if anyone wants to play against an Inferno player on impossible in SOD 3.2 - hit me up at 300109800.
in my experience - this is one of the weakest towns. here is the opinion on the creatures:
Funny thing - in this castle, there isn't even a single banned hero (according to various tournament rules) )
imps are trash. they play no particular role due to their weakness.
I would say - the weakest unit. Even a hero with strong combat stats ends a fight with neutrals losing imps... The unit is weaker even than a troglodyte and slower than "butterflies". Moreover, the starting number of imps is lowered in SOD (fixed in TE). What can 1 hero with say 17 imps and 4 gogs repel? =)
magogs don't have the best stats, and upgraded ones are even doubtful because of their ability to hit their own.
Useless unit. Slow, expensive, very low attack for a second-level shooter. I only need them as meat to break through key resources. Their upgrade is expensive and... absolutely pointless.
cerberus are a strong unit! good growth, hit hard, many times and without answer.
But weak defense. And the dmg varies too much - almost a five-fold difference between minimum and maximum. I don't build them up to efreets. And then I only build them for the purpose of accumulating in the castle for defense... Or zerg... Alas. I don't use them as an independent element of strategy
demons are ordinary walking meat without any particular pluses.
+1. I only build them to unlock higher levels. I don't use them in hero development, only for guarding the castle and zerg.
Pit lords - low health, they don't fly, special ability is doubtful in my opinion (one piece of meat resurrects another piece of meat-)))
Like the doggies, I don't build them. Since efreets can be placed without them.
ifreets are good guys! they can be put in the top three strongest 6th level along with nagas and death knights (I consider cavalry weaker, but that's IMHO)
The only strike unit in Inferno. Looking at balance - HP is a bit low (but this is a problem for all Inferno units) Pluses - fast (very fast when upgraded), relatively small construction requirements (3-4 buildings from the start of the game), immune to fire magic (not hit by arrows and... Armageddon muahaha - the latter sometimes becomes a key feature in the endgame, when other troops and faster seventh-level units are taken only for the right of first move...). Efreet sultans - companions of a mobile battle mage on the map - a mage with logistics moves no worse than fighters. )
Devils are decent fighters, but health is a bit low in my opinion...
Attack is weakish, HP is low, speed is above average, but they lose in speed (right of first move) to the archangel and phoenix. The building is expensive and I often finished the game on impossible without them at all...
Inferno heroes don't stand out as anything special, but I repeat - I'm not a fan of this town and perhaps I just don't know much-))))
There are no heroes with good (cheating) skills, no logistics experts, no defence-offence specialists, no skill-mages....
But how conveniently demons develop, and especially heretics. Sort of offensive battle mages (my playstyle). With decent chances to get any secondary skill.
Added after 11 minutes Alicia
Ha-ha! The only disbalance in HOMM3 is probably the extreme weakness of the Inferno town! For example, playing online I wouldn't dare choose this castle. :) No bonuses save it.
At the same time, the respawn around Inferno is also poor in resources - no leprechauns, mills, corpse remains etc. Often there is a lot of lava and closed spaces.
Not a single normal hero.
And among heroes "unspoiled" by unnecessary secondary skills, there aren't that many in Inferno.
I have never met a person who seriously played as this castle.
Does seriousness mean the desire to win championships?
Ideologically and visually it is perfectly thought out, but for me it remains a secret what kind of tactic can help Inferno. It would be very interesting and curious to find someone in this thread who loves playing as Inferno! Where are you?
<- 300109800.
Added after 9 minutes Joshua
there was almost no talk about balance violation -)) the town is just weak... question: how to make it stronger using your head and opportunities-)) rush and hack - that's an option... but what about a more prolonged game given the distance between players??
Strange, for me Inferno is exactly weak at the start, a Rampart rush on the first or second week kills me, but if my main hero is allowed to develop, by the 3rd-4th week and beyond, Rampart has fewer chances, even considering all its HP zerg of dendroids, dwarves, upgraded centaurs etc... =)
Added after 2 minutes Alex_R
I also disagree that Inferno is weak, it's just hard to develop on impossible.
It's hard for all castles without starting resources, isn't it? =)
Added after 3 minutes Geksorin
So again, a proven tactic in online battles: I start with Inferno, with a useless player (7 gogs and 25 imps), only an imp pit nearby, I buy a second guy (8 gog 23 imps),
A starting hero never has 8 gogs. From 4 to 7 (LOL!).
Added after 4 minutes Geksorin
I start with Inferno, with a useless player (7 gogs and 25 imps), only an imp pit nearby, I buy a second guy (8 gog 23 imps), bought out gogs and imps in the town, transferred everything to one hero and got... 23 gogs and 79 imps, with this army I went to slaughter everyone, while building up the town; at the start of the week I again bought imps and gogs and while the main hero was leveling, I built the whole town in 2 weeks, and on the 3rd week with a 2-week growth, I moved further ... conclusion: won the map on the 6th week.
You can play like this with any castle and hero (and other castles are much easier). And apparently, at normal difficulty level and monster strength=easy? :) How many imps will you have left after meeting neutral shooters of levels 1-2 and fast (6+) melee flyers (monster strength=max)?
Added after 3 minutes CrasH
Either on the second week or even on the first... By the second, Inferno will have cerberus and they aren't weak either ))
23 grand elves are in no way comparable to 23 gogs... The former will kill the latter with a score of 8:1.
Added after 4 minutes Joshua
The army is normal - I'm not saying anything!
23 gogs and 79 imps - is that a normal army? And on impossible, it's wasteful. Slow units will be smashed to pieces by shooters, 6+ melee flyers; imps cannot tank, gogs have weak attack (the weakest second-level shooter without upgrade), penalty in close combat...
ADD: Only now did I notice that I was replying to posts in the thread dated back to 2007-2008. =)
Added after 37 minutes Joshua
Sorcery does not "very well" increase magic damage. only by 15%..
For a sorcery specialist, there is also a dmg bonus with each level. It happened that one cast was enough to wipe out the entire monthly brood of an opponent's castle in seven slots (e.g., Armageddon on expert fire and with an orb)...
Added after 12 minutes Ataman
In Inferno it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn blessing
What's the problem with learning this low-level skill from a scroll or a first-level tutor around the castle? =)
Added after 34 seconds Kyle
Archdevils in a 100 vs 100 fight, all other things being equal, lose only to archangels... they win against everyone else.. :D
Will the heroes just be smoking on the sidelines? In a match-up with archdevils, living dragons easily win.
Added after 56 minutes Grilik
Well, getting efreets on the first week only works at 130%)))
And at 160% with starting 10000 gold and 4 of each colored resource, is it hard to build up? If you don't count stones, but you can even do it without leaving the castle... That's why for me it's only interesting to play on impossible, without starting resources - that's where building efreets on the first week (without a stronghold - there still won't be enough money to buy so many efreets immediately) depends not only on colored resources and a large number of "stones" (ore), but also on money, which may simply not be on the respawn (terrain specifics with an absence of buildings like mills or leprechauns)... But it's still feasible.
Added after 13 minutes gamer-kirill
Regarding a certain tactic for Inferno, it was suggested to build efreets immediately and go with them. That's where the uncertainty lies. These are level 6 units and they are built one by one; you can't build them like swamp wyverns. From this comes the conclusion: it's not always advisable to bet on efreets. And what if you are on a small map? Or resource-poor? If, for example, we play as Castle or Rampart, then the tactic may come down to building archers and clearing the territory with this small army, which ensures the capture of mines and resources almost without losses. In Inferno, shooters are weak, and you can only pass without losses using efreets, as was noted. But to build them, you need different resources and five levels of creatures built, except for dogs probably.
Provided that we appear on the first day with a second-level dwelling, then 2 more buildings are required before efreets to be built; you can do without a sawmill (by picking up 10 wood somewhere), only one stone mine - demons and musthave first-level magic guild (efreet upgrade doesn't require anything supernatural like a second-level magic guild or silo)
Added after 10 minutes gamer-kirill
Yes, indeed, efreets are placed without dogs and spawns of evil, but you still build 3-4 buildings (the lake of efreets itself, demons, magic and if not then the palace of vices). Time - minimum 3-4 days on a map sufficiently rich in money and resources. This is without building either a municipality or a prefecture. Does anyone actually play like that here? Let's not idealize the situation and say that such things happen. Usually there aren't enough resources on the map to use efreets as a tactic for gathering resources. Better off with gogs somehow.
Added several months later. Investing in troops at the start - I play like that now too, and not always on a resource-rich map.
Two efreets will help earn (pay back) more money (and especially other resources) than sitting in the castle and saving up for a municipality... Or running around with a feeble suicide army of imps and gogs. =)
However... It's a good article – I didn't waste my time writing it all night. :) And, in general, it's all relevant. Almost. I practically don't play as Inferno, but I have a more or less good understanding of its strengths. Yes, and Ifrits are, of course, good guys...
Here's what I read here:
Quote:
demons are ordinary, expendable units without any particular advantages.
+1. I only build them to build higher-level units. I don't use them for hero development, only for guarding the castle and for zerg rushes.
Quote:
Pit Lords have low health, they don't fly, and their special ability seems questionable to me (one piece of meat resurrects another piece of meat -)))
I don't build them either, just like the hounds. Because Ifrits can be deployed even without them.
Five starting demons are indeed just a piece of ordinary meat. But when there are a hundred of them (as a result of a questionable ability), they become a real force. Perhaps I'll just quote a player I respect; I hope he doesn't mind:
invisible (01:10:53 1/05/2009) 60 demons and a resource boost on the 2nd week can easily take even a maxed-out Utopia. invisible (01:11:03 1/05/2009) with decent stats. Kash (01:11:28 1/05/2009) I'm just starting to learn how to play as Inferno. What are you talking about, 60 demons? invisible (01:12:06 1/05/2009) if you can't produce at least 50-60 demons by the 2nd week, then you shouldn't play as Inferno.
I haven't tested it much against Utopias, but I can easily take Cons on the second week. And also:
invisible (01:12:25 1/05/2009) Inferno is completely useless in SoD (Stronghold of Darkness).
The difficulty with Inferno is that the resource distribution in SoD is questionable. That's why I don't play as them. That's all. :)
I don't disagree, but on Impossible difficulty, you have to choose between focusing on demon production (and investing all your money into it) or having a mage who flies around the map with upgraded efreeti (spending all the money on their own "education") -> which leads to synthesizing a powerful mage with minimal overhead (an unbought castle respawn accumulates in the castle itself in case might turns out to be stronger than magic, if you're unlucky with the native magic floors, and for taking those same Utopias, etc., but later on).
Even a hero with strong combat stats finishes a battle with neutrals with losses of imps...
The only effective unit in Inferno. Considering the balance, HP is a bit low (but this is a problem for all Inferno units).
(about Ifrits)
LOL!
Their upgrade is expensive and... completely pointless.
(about Gogs)
LOL!!!
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
And this is about Invisibla.
In the Inferno SOD, he's a complete noob.
The Castle has weaknesses, but the Utopians fall on the 2nd day.
60 demons and a rush on the 2nd week can easily take even the maxed-out Utopian stronghold. invisible (01:11:03 1/05/2009)
This is about Marius with the Town skill (and I'm not even sure he can handle the maximum). Invisibla just read the topics on the forum related to the Town skill.
With 60 demons in the SOD, even for the minimum difficulty, I would think twice, and only if there are good spells and decent parameters. Otherwise, there will be unjustified losses. Which, in reality, doesn't prevent you from gathering another stack of Angels or Vivs, and then attacking the Utopian stronghold with two effective units. I think the average number of demons should be around 80. + preferably with offensive skills. The Utopian rush is a whole problem, because usually low-level creatures are turned into demons. You either have to do without it, or take Ifrits, Elementals, etc.
And betting on Armageddon is a straw to grasp if you've failed in everything else.
A Castle with weaknesses, but the Dragon Utopia fell on the 2nd.
Theoretically, you can get a Dragon Utopia at 112-113 with any Castle, but nonetheless, Inferno has the least chance of this, at least in SoD. It's realistically a rather weak castle, whatever you say.
Theoretically, you can take the Dragon Utopia on 112-113 with any Castle, but nonetheless, Inferno has the least chance of doing so, at least in SoD. It's a realistically weak castle, whatever you say.
It's only weak because its generator respawn is heavily deprived of resources, and the starting army is actually quite weak. And if you were born underground on top of that, you immediately want to surrender!
But in general, demonology is cool! I personally took a minimum Dragon Utopia on the second map in SoD with native troops - 66 demons (I had a cheat ring and a couple of caches). I lost almost all of them, true, but I took it :)
In the last unfinished game, I had a good draw (though not perfect) in the Dungeon. I had 140 powerful Liches against 134. I'll finish the game and write a report.
Dirty_Player
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No, I mean, if the hero is level 15, with off, def, earth... and on top of that he has a shield and sword, then it's obvious that the Dragon Utopia is taken without question.
Kash
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No comment.
invisible
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Oelm, I read the forum here, and you're showing off like crazy, it's almost scary, what if you really became a mega-dad?
Invisible just read the threads on the board related to TE.
So, you've read a lot of theory and are showing off wherever you can, even when it's completely irrelevant. According to you, you're threatening to beat GO on 2, even though you haven't done it even once, and even on the first try, you bragged that you could. It's ridiculous. When we played on Balance, you were afraid to kill 100+ wood with mass haste on week 2, but according to your posts, it's a piece of cake for you. And when I wrote a report about that game, where you completely failed, you started whining that the build order was unfamiliar and that no one does it that way. I had only played that build order once before, and I wrote the report because the game was interesting. And you knew I was writing a report and said nothing. And when I asked you why you weren't confirming it, you started whining about what I wrote above. Couldn't you have just said it right away so I wouldn't waste time writing the report? But in games, you love to whine, complaining about the map, asking for auto-saves several times per game. I'll answer once, because you're already annoying me by showing off everywhere you can, having read various forums about the mega-dad strategy and trying to act like one.Below are 2 saves, before and after taking the Utopian-Max. The save is modified based on memory from one of my fun games (Utopian taken on week 2, I don't remember the exact date, but the troops are approximately the same, the magic too, and I didn't cut down the Gogs, Dwarves, and Centaurs because I didn't have time, and I needed food for the Utopian; on week 1, I had a native secondary town + some demons and a couple of Imps + Imps given in Pandora (I don't remember exactly) and a Rampart secondary town). The difference is that my stats were slightly lower (but I had 2 angels instead of one). Therefore, in that game, I got out with 30+ demons from the Utopian. In the save, 56 demons and 2 Efreet survived. Of course, such outcomes don't happen every time, but Utopian-Max also happens rarely.
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in message
So, stop pretending to be a mega-dad and learn to play.
He's only a bit weak because his generator respawn is severely lacking in resources, and the starting army is actually really weak. And if you happen to be born underground, you just want to surrender immediately!
But overall, demonology is cool!
The starting army is weak, so tasks that are easily solved in week 1-2 for other factions can be very difficult for the Inferno, which affects further development, and demonology might not even help. I see no point in proud statements like thisDirty_Player
I personally took the minimum Dragon Utopia on the second map in SoD with native troops - 66 demons (had a cheat ring and a couple of caches) Lost almost everyone, true, but I took it :)
what does the strength of the Castle have to do with this is unclear; with a couple of good caches, you can get things done with any faction without any Dragon Utopia.