Skip to content

Posts from Round table

5.0 (2 ratings)
In reply to Wlk777
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Vic's post hit the mark with my thoughts. Almost immediately after reading Pasha's post, I wanted to ask about this exact gimmick — like placing Angels in the Citadel is cool. Despite the fact that, by my estimates, Cavaliers in the Castle turn out no worse. For example, a third-level Griffin Conservatory usually cannot be broken through with native troops (with acceptable losses) while teching up to Angels. + Stables, of course.
In reply to Wlk777
Auto-translated
Wlk777
I think weaker players are even less likely to use Angels on the first level than stronger players. I clearly stated that Angels are a choice for when you have money. By the way, Angels in Fortress are not much more expensive than Knights in Castle. It's true that this rarely happens, but the statement that the combination of Knights + Marksmen is definitely stronger than Angels with Monks (and even without Monks) is highly debatable, as explained above.
I agree that this statement is debatable. That's exactly what I'm saying: for the most popular builds, it's almost impossible or will lead to delays in scouting and development. It immediately reminded me of how you talked about Necromancers and their weakness, but you never showed what it applies to:p
Wlk777
P.S. As I can see, Wicc's thinking is strongly geared towards Town-to-Town (TE). He needs to consider that the overwhelming majority of those discussing here prefer Conquest of Darkness (SOD), and, for example, the discussion about Knights in Castle was started by Dubrovin Pavel, who, as far as I know, also plays SOD. Therefore, I once again ask Wicc@Co not to confuse the discussion; it would be best to write about TE in the appropriate section, but apparently, this is impossible for some:mad:
I didn't notice that Wicc was particularly writing about TE here. Most of his words on the topic of Knights or Angels are perfectly applicable to SOD. But if you want only SOD to be discussed here, create a separate topic and ask the admins to monitor it so that TE is not discussed there. For now, your numerous requests not to talk about TE here are meaningless, and attempts to show that Wicc's words are confusing are too naive (what now, just because more players play SOD, should we ban talking about TE?):)
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Oelm
For example, a third-level Griffin Conservatory usually cannot be broken by native troops (with acceptable losses) while teching up to Angels. + stables of course.
Without mass slow or other magic like Blind, you'll tire yourself out breaking a Castle's third-level Griffin Conservatory with native troops even with horses in week 2 ;). But with Angels it's actually easier – Angels can withstand the retaliation from 30 Griffins about 2 times, while horses might lose one from the first retaliation. And a Dragon Fly Hive is taken especially well by 2 Angels, even the maximum one, with a small casualty count, while horses can get stuck there if the Serpents behave unfavorably :rolleyes:

Added after 10 minutes
He3Hauka
I agree that this judgment is debatable. That's exactly what I'm saying – relative to the most popular templates, this is almost impossible or will lead to a delay in scouting and development.
With money available, development will actually be faster, and in week 2 it will be much easier. By the way, let's calculate – Angels in the Fort: 3000 Monastery + 20000 Portal + 6000 to recruit = total 29000 without Monks (+ resources of course). Horses in the Castle: 2000 Stables, 7500 Castle, 5000 Hippodrome, 6000 Horses + 1350 for 9 extra Marksmen + 1600 for 4 extra Crusaders + 1260 for 14 extra Pikemen = about 25,000 (+ plenty of wood). As you can see, the difference is small. + it's good if there are external Stables; if they're far away, that's another 4200 for upgrading the horses.
In reply to Wlk777
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Wlk777
P.S. It seems that Wicc's thinking is heavily geared towards *The Eastern Expansion* (TE); he needs to consider that the vast majority of those discussing here prefer *Sword of Destruction* (SoD), and, for example, the discussion about horses in the castle was started by Dubrovin Pavel, who, as far as I know, is also one of them ;). Therefore, once again, I ask Wicc@Co not to create confusion in the discussion; ideally, they should write about TE in the appropriate section, but apparently, this is not possible for some:mad:
You, it seems, not only think slowly but also read the same way. Otherwise, you would have noticed that in the post you are criticizing, there is a phrase - "In TE, if you start as the Turis, the difference is even greater (+25% hit points for the horses)". Or, for example, this one - "building on standard angel templates with a castle is stupid even in TE".

Which clearly indicates that the rest of the text refers either to SoD or to both versions. That's one.

Two - on this site, games are played in both SoD and TE, and often within the same tournaments. Therefore, discussions about games and strategies are also mixed, and that is normal.
In reply to Samurai
User Avatar
Auto-translated
He3Hauka
I immediately remembered how you talked about Necromancers and their weakness, but you never showed what it applies to:p
I'll repeat it in plain Russian for those who don't understand: the weakness of Necromancers lies in the weakness of their native troops (one lord strongly doubted this and lost a small amount to me (enough to pay for a decent unlimited internet plan for a month in our city)), and it is compensated only by a large number of free troops in popular builds. Without this, Necromancers will be in trouble on any map, this has been proven many times:rolleyes:.

Added after 6 minutes
Wicc
You, I see, not only think slowly, but also read the same way. Otherwise, you would have noticed that in the post you are criticizing, there is a phrase - "In TE, if you start as Tur-iel, the difference is even greater (+25% hit points for the horses)". Or, for example, this one - "building angels with a castle on ordinary maps is stupid even in TE".

Which clearly indicates that the rest of the text refers either to SoD or to both versions. That's one.

Two - on this site, games are played both in SoD and in TE, and often within the same tournaments. Therefore, the discussion of games and strategies is also mixed, which is normal.
I wasn't criticizing that post, I just noticed that your conclusions about the unambiguous advantage of horses with marks over angels show your TE mindset. In SoD, this is not the case. Try to refute it instead of talking about how slow my thinking is. By the way, other people have told me that most of your posts are written from the perspective of TE. My regards to DirtyPlayer ;)

Added after 1 minute
Wicc


Therefore, the discussion of games and strategies is also mixed, which is normal.
but in my opinion, it's not normal, considering that these are practically different games, and it also creates confusion in the discussion:confused:
User Avatar
Auto-translated
and is only compensated by a large number of free units on popular templates; without this, Necropolis will suffer greatly on any patch, as proven time and time again.
All that remains is to suggest that Wlk777 sign up for the competition and support the theory with practice ;) registration for the tournament will be tomorrow, or maybe I'll put together the first post today.
В. Уэйтс©
Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Let's analyze taking a Consulate-level town with a geared-up stack on the grass. Valia with 4-5 stats, expert archer, without a spellbook. Option 1: 6 Grand Knights + 54 Marksmen + 64 Pikemen + 4 Griffins (single units) Option 2: 2 Angels + 49 Marksmen + 57 Pikemen + 4 Griffins (single units) The setup and tactics are identical in both cases: 1 Griffin - 1 Griffin - Marksmen - 1 Griffin - 1 Griffin - Pikemen - Knights/Angels Battle scheme: Knights/Angels in the first round attack the Grand Knight stack from above; the stack moves down to attack the Pikemen; the Marksmen take their place; the Griffin single units move alternately with the opponents, blocking both cells from which the upper-left stack can reach the Pikemen. On their turn, the Pikemen block the Marksmen in the pocket. To ensure a clean experiment, I disabled morale for the Griffins and skipped my own morale if it appeared. Results: In the setup with Knights, 2 Knights and about 40-45 Pikemen are consistently lost, along with the single units. In the setup with Angels, 1 Angel is consistently lost (the second is half-health), and almost all Pikemen are lost. Out of 4 attempts, the Griffins broke through the Pikemen and started attacking the Marksmen twice, resulting in losses of 4 and 6 Marksmen, respectively. However, in one of these battles, I made a mistake myself – I fired the Griffins at the wrong stack. And in the second, even with a normal battle strategy, they broke through. With enough grinding, you can try to find the optimal sequence for the Knights/Angels in terms of alternating wait, defense, and attack, so as to reduce the number of Griffins and avoid unnecessary losses. Then, the result might be improved. Currently, I was fighting "by eye." The average damage of 6 Knights running at the Grand Knight stack is 276 (at close range - 210). And for 2 Angels, it's 175. The Knights have more hit points. There are more Marksmen. There are more Pikemen. As can be seen from the numbers, the Knight option is relatively resistant to the Griffins' morale; the battle proceeds with a margin, and in the worst case, you'll lose an extra Knight or the remaining Pikemen. But in the case of the Angels, everything is much worse – deviating from the optimal order can lead to serious losses, and it's easy to take hits on the Marksmen. And even in the optimal scenario, as can be seen from the numbers, the Angels suffer noticeably more losses. UPDATE I tried the same setup in a Consulate-level town with a stack. And I won (with Knights), leaving 3 Knights and all the Marksmen; I didn't use morale. But it was close, of course, and in a real game, it would be risky. The Angels, of course, would be quickly defeated there.
In reply to Wicc
User Avatar
Auto-translated
54 marks is optimistic for Soda, but 45 is quite enough, and without testing, it's clear that it's easier to win with cavalry. (And in Town Capture, Necropolis with a Transformer is still very strong; I lost primarily because I was playing Town Capture for the first time. And the combination of Necropolis + X will beat X + any other faction, and even without the Transformer, they are very strong).
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Oelm
54 marks is optimistic for Soda, but 45 is quite enough, and without testing, it's clear that it's easier to win with horses. (And in Team Combat, Necropolis with a Transformer is still very strong; I lost primarily because I was playing Team Combat for the first time, and the Necropolis + X combination will beat X + anyone, and even without the Transformer, they are very strong).
Yeah, and there will be fewer stakes in a real game. Then the difference will be even more noticeable – you'll still win with horses, although there will be more losses, but with angels, you might not even be able to get out.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Well, if angels are built, then our hero moves faster on the map. ;)
Maybe first, eliminate the guards of the artifacts to improve parameters, use fewer conscripts, and use wyverns... and do it everywhere without losses, while with horses, you can lose a horse or an archer.

And another question, why did griffins attack the "Pokémon"? There are fewer marksmen, and they deal less damage? And of course, griffins are guaranteed to suffer morale loss, so it's difficult to emerge from the third week with such parameters and troops intact.

I would still put angels on the 1st week - it's always better to have monsters of level 7, whether it's an angel or a dragon - for both speed and combat resilience (winning battles without losses). :)
The only problem is usually with finances - it's rare to be able to gather enough gold to buy them and then buy out the next wave.
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
In reply to Wicc
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Wicc
Yeah, and there will be fewer pawns in the actual game. Then the difference will be even more noticeable – you can still win with cavalry, although you might suffer more losses, but with angels, you might not even be able to get out.
But if you manage to get a level 3 consul with 2 angels (and in the actual game, it's usually possible to get both a boost and a spellbook, so this is very realistic), you get a very powerful stack of 5 angels, which is easy and enjoyable to play with, much more enjoyable than with 3 angels and the remnants of the castle's growth after taking the consul. Although, of course, I don't deny that it's very difficult to get angels when playing as Castle in the first week, but there is definitely a point to it.
In reply to Captain
Auto-translated
Captain


and another question, why did the griffins attack the Pokémon? Markovs are smaller and deal less damage, right?
It's clear that this is a complete newbie in a random game. :)
Navuchodonosor
Now it's clear that you weren't talking about yourself, of course. :)
User Avatar
Auto-translated
By the way, there's another drawback to the horse option: if there aren't any external stables nearby, you have to bother with building a grand hippodrome; otherwise, it's not worth venturing into the castle with a grand stack and fewer units than the minimum.
In reply to Wlk777
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Wlk777
But if you manage to get a level 3 Consulate with 2 Angels (and in a real game, you usually get both a growth bonus and a book, so this is very realistic), you get a very powerful stack of 5 Angels, which is much easier and more enjoyable to play with than 3 Angels and the scraps left over from the castle's growth after taking the Consulate.
I strongly advise you to buy points :).

Where does the powerful stack of 5 Angels come from if one was lost? There will be 4 Angels. And in the case of the horses, there will be 3 Angels + 4 horses + the remaining units. This option is not only stronger, but it will also be enough for a couple of battles, including a maximum-level one, for example. And the 4 Angels will run around it, drooling and looking for some growth bonus.

Added 1 minute ago
Wlk777
By the way, there is another drawback to the horse option: if there are no external stables nearby, you have to bother with building a large hippodrome; otherwise, it is not worth going to the Consulate with more than the minimum number of units in the large stack.
Only the arrangement in battle will change; everything else will be the same, perhaps with slightly more losses due to the lack of the first powerful attack.

Added 52 seconds ago
Wlk777
By the way, there is another drawback to the horse option: if there are no external stables nearby, you have to bother with building a large hippodrome; otherwise, it is not worth going to the Consulate with more than the minimum number of units in the large stack.
Well, since you found the money for the Angels, you'll somehow find the money for the hippodrome upgrade :)
In reply to Wicc
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Well, if the angels are built, then our hero moves faster around the map.
He can first eliminate the guards guarding the artifacts, focusing on smaller units, and using wyverns... and do it everywhere without losses, while with cavalry, you might lose a horse or an archer.

This is a tactic for a 2-minute control, but if you're not playing against a newbie and the game lasts 6 minutes, it's just ridiculous. They'll break Utopia while you're running around the map.

Statistics

Welcome our newest member: Emil