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Posts from Does the pre-installed software on the purchased computer include Windows Vista, and is that something you actually need?
How did you feel about having Vista installed on the computer you purchased?
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Dr Motor
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Here, gentlemen, I'm curious – do you also suffer from this? consumer rights protection organizations
the full news story is here .... According to Finam, Microsoft's operating system absolutely dominates the market. According to this information, about 70% of computers in our country are sold with Windows pre-installed. And if we talk about laptops, then almost all of them are equipped with the Vista OS. ...... According to the law, the buyer has the right to refuse the operating system pre-installed by the manufacturer and demand a refund for it. ..... According to manufacturers, most companies in Russia operate not as representatives of manufacturers, but as representatives of distributors affiliated with manufacturers. Therefore, the refund procedure has not been established.
If, when purchasing hardware, dealers told you that the software is an integral part of the computer/laptop/netbook/etc. you are purchasing, while you were not satisfied with the pre-installed software, but you had to buy it due to the sellers' assurances that it could not be returned and, accordingly, the price of the computer could not be reduced, then you can contact the Federal Antimonopoly Committee to register the fact of a violation of your rights.
In addition, there is the CEST project where you can contact them on the same issue, but directly submit an application about the fact that you were sold unwanted pre-installed OEM software.
Surely, many have asked themselves this question – "why should I buy Win Vista?". We must know our rights and have the freedom to choose.
Отдай свои прошлые сны, В сомненьях себя обрети, В бешеном танце душа кружится! Не думай, что будет потом, Здесь и сейчас мы живем, Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!
What's the point? Those who need it can reinstall it themselves, and those who don't need it don't need it, and Vista is perfectly fine for them.
I'm not arguing with that - it's true. But do you know how much Vista costs? Around $100 USD and up, depending on the installed version. So why should someone pay for something they don't need? That's the most interesting part. What if I already have purchased software, and with that money, I could buy better hardware. And it's not just about Vista, but about any software; Vista is just the most striking and well-known example of consumer rights violations.
I don't know how much it costs (a boxed version of Vista Ultimate might cost around 7 units), but when I bought a computer with a pre-installed OS, I wasn't charged extra for it (at least, configurations with XP and Vista cost the same).
In general, it's better to build a computer yourself; I realized that a long time ago. ^_^
Added 4 minutes later
Dr Motor
I'm not arguing with that – it's true. But do you know how much Vista costs? Around 100 USD and more, depending on the installed version.
Unfortunately, I do.
So why should someone pay for something they don't need? That's the most interesting part. What if I already have purchased software, and with that money, I could buy better hardware? And it's not just about Vista; it's about any software. Vista is just the most striking and well-known example of consumer rights violations.
In most cases, the average person, whose computer experience is limited to Word/1C/Paint/Explorer, simply doesn't think about it because they don't understand the subject.
but when I bought a computer with a pre-installed OS, they didn't charge me extra for it.
That's what the manager told you))) But did you analyze the hardware yourself? Did you compare?
Amaranth
In general, it's better to assemble it yourself; I realized that a long time ago. ^_^
I realized that a very long time ago, and I do it myself, but that doesn't solve the problem. Because most buyers don't have the opportunity to do that. But the main question is, what about laptops? I want a laptop with this configuration - I'd rather shoot myself than deal with this - I want exactly this one and no other... but here's the catch: it comes with Vista Ultimate for $500, which I DON'T NEED, you see? What should I do if I don't want to buy Vista, but want to install a new, expensive piece of hardware with not a smart, golden Vista, but a bad and unfinished Linux, which costs nothing.
Moreover, did you read the Windows EULA (license agreement) during installation? I dare to inform you that it clearly states that by purchasing a copy of the OS, you are not the owner of that copy; all rights remain with Microsoft. You are only allowed to use this copy. Just Google it and read about it; it's interesting.
And then, the issue here is not about banning pre-installed software, but about the right to return it.
Added 5 minutes later
In most cases, the average person, whose experience with computers ends with Word/1C/Paint/Explorer, simply doesn't think about it because they don't understand the subject.
Exactly! This is what Microsoft takes advantage of! Isn't that depressing? No one will enlighten an uninformed user about this; they will simply be charged money, which will then go straight into the pocket of a foreign monopoly.
Well, that's a problem for the individual user. And it happens not only with operating systems but with any other product. The seller's main goal is to make a sale, and the higher the price, the better.
Отдай свои прошлые сны, В сомненьях себя обрети, В бешеном танце душа кружится! Не думай, что будет потом, Здесь и сейчас мы живем, Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!
Well, that's a problem for the individual user. And it happens not only with operating systems, but with any other product. The seller's main goal is to sell, and the more expensive, the better.
Could you elaborate on what other products this happens with? Unfortunately, I don't know of any field where monopoly is more obvious than in the software industry. Microsoft is essentially a global giant, an unstoppable monopoly that has the right to impose an outright failed product (Windows Vista) on the entire world. Only advanced users can refuse, but they will always be a minority... that's why they are advanced. The majority of uneducated ordinary people are struggling with Vista. Even though it glitches, freezes, and barely works, performing simple operations in an unacceptably long time. I had the opportunity to compare the performance of Windows Vista on a computer with a quad-core processor and two gigabytes of RAM with the performance of Windows 98 on the first Pentium (133 MHz). The former is somewhat behind the latter, although, no doubt, it looks more attractive. In most civilized countries, there are ministries for antitrust policy, whose goal is to control large enterprises so that they have at least some viable competitors... This works with clothes, food, and even cars - here, the product user can determine what they need and will not just buy everything from the largest manufacturer. But with operating systems, not everyone can figure it out...
In most cases, an ordinary person whose acquaintance with a computer ends with Word/1C/Paint/Explorer simply doesn't think about it, as they don't understand the subject.
I fully agree with this opinion. I myself am not a very advanced user - I haven't gotten around to mastering Linux, and I don't know anything about programming - however, I will not allow anyone to sell me a low-quality product just because "everyone buys it." Regarding the topic - I have assembled all my computers myself, starting with the 486. Problems with pre-installed software are not my problems, in general. But nevertheless, I consider this topic very important. My father received Vista with his new laptop... and he has been a software collector for about fifteen years (about three hundred old laser discs and a hundred DVDs - all filled with programs, of which he uses maybe fifty). He tested various software under Vista for a month - and happily removed it))) Another friend of mine, on whose computer I first saw Vista, lasted two years. Moreover, for the first year, he used the beta version of the product (you simply cannot imagine what an incredible mess it is, Explorer loads for 1.5 minutes, and it takes 10 seconds to open a folder). One thing consoles me in this hopeless Microsoft monopoly - the power of Microsoft Office is slowly crumbling. More and more people are using alternative programs - Winamp instead of Windows Media Player, Opera and Firefox instead of Explorer, Total Commander instead of Explorer, and only a mentally impaired person would prefer Paint to Photoshop or Corel. Recently, I saw Office San - a good alternative to Microsoft products, and it's also freeware. It has its own text editor, graphics editor, and spreadsheet program for accountants. It works with all Microsoft Office extensions, but it is much faster, more accessible, and less demanding on RAM. However, operating systems will remain Microsoft's for a long time to come around the world, with rare exceptions. Alas.
Как можно сделать мутную воду прозрачной? - Не трогай её, и она очистится сама. :smile04:
No one will bother educating an unenlightened user about this – they will simply charge them more and that’s it.
Well, that’s a problem for that specific user. And this happens not only with operating systems, but with any other product. The seller’s main goal is to sell, and the higher the price, the better.
That’s what I’m talking about. In many areas, you’ll be told over and over again that this expensive trinket is the best.
As for RAM, if you don’t like Microsoft, try something else. I personally use Windows at home and I’m quite happy with it, but that’s just at home. :)
Sometimes I have a crazy thought that Microsoft is simply running out of options, because more or less knowledgeable people, for example, use something other than Windows for work, precisely because of its sluggishness. And those who don’t know anything just follow the advertising – that’s perfectly normal. By the way, the installed operating system is often listed in the specifications of a laptop, and if you don’t like it, you simply don’t buy it
Отдай свои прошлые сны, В сомненьях себя обрети, В бешеном танце душа кружится! Не думай, что будет потом, Здесь и сейчас мы живем, Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!
I'm talking about this:) In many areas, you'll be told a hundred times that this expensive trinket is the best.
And that's not forbidden. ZYbr
As for RAM, if you don't like Microsoft, learn something else.
Learning is one thing, that's for sure. But why would I need Vista on the computer I want to buy? ZYbr
I use Windows XP at home, and it suits me just fine, but that's at home.
Yes, anywhere - XP is the peak of what Microsoft has created in its entire history. I never even considered using Vista - I tinkered with it a couple of times, configured it, and it worked well - it was fast... and I uninstalled it. But I had to pay for it. And it's still sitting here, an unopened disc - what should I do with it? Maybe I can use it to reflect sunlight, observe dispersion...
And those who don't know just follow the advertising - that's perfectly normal. .... By the way, the installed OS is often listed in the specifications of a laptop, and you can't avoid it.
Well, here we go again... No, they're not just following the advertising - they're simply not given the option to not have Vista. So, "if you don't want it, don't buy it," but what should you buy then? Here's a real-life example for you - in my previous post, I described how I bought a laptop. I could buy a workstation without any problems; I didn't even have an OS when I bought it - there wasn't even a CD-ROM drive, because I didn't think I needed it:D... and I still don't have one... and it's unlikely I will. And there wasn't a hard drive at first - but there was an OS. I found a decent hard drive that I wanted and installed it. But what about a laptop? If the laptop I want doesn't exist without Vista, that's almost a fact. That's what I'm talking about.
What’s there to think about? You should always buy a new computer without an *OS*. Then, install everything yourself. It’s a real saving. Whether it’s Vista or not is up to each individual! I’m currently using 64-bit XP, and everything is fine.
Евангелие от Иоанна, 1.5: Lux in tenebris lucet, et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt. Свет во тьме светит, и тьма не объяла его.
What's there to think about? You should always buy a new computer without an *OS*. Then, install everything yourself. It's a real saving. And whether it's Vista or not is up to each individual! I'm still using 64-bit XP, and everything is fine.
That's clear! The point is different! You can buy a computer with XP, or you can assemble it yourself and install exactly what you need. But laptops come with Vista. I myself once faced the same problem when buying a laptop. 90% of all laptops had Vista; I searched for one with XP... I found a few, but in terms of components, they didn't suit me at all. I had to buy the one that suited me, but with Vista. Well, I thought I'd take a look and see what it's like. I looked... I won't say anything, I think you all know already... And now, Vista is being pushed everywhere, both in laptops and desktop computers. I was choosing a new desktop, and most of them already come with Vista pre-installed; very few have XP, but thankfully, there are also completely bare ones. But the problem is that a simple buyer will buy a desktop with pre-installed software so as not to bother with the installation, especially if they don't know how. And they will also advertise Vista to them, and they will fall for it. And if they refuse and ask for a bare computer, they will say: "Sorry! We don't live in America; we don't know our rights." We will sigh and buy it, come home, and delete it, installing the operating system we need. The same goes for laptops; we'll buy one with Vista. We don't know our rights, we don't want to know them, and we don't know how to use them. That's the whole problem. I think the sellers aren't entirely aware that the buyer can demand a refund for the software they don't need (again, legal illiteracy). There are only a few such buyers out of thousands of others who will buy without thinking.
"Как это странно всегда.. Вроде бы взрослые люди, А в голове ерунда.. Мечтаем как дети о чуде.."
oxygen_hl
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but the main question is, what about laptops? I want a laptop with this configuration – I might as well shoot myself right here – I want exactly this one and nothing else... but here's the catch – it has Vista Ultimate installed, which cost 500 bucks, and I DON'T NEED it, you see?
That's a strange position. You need a Porsche Boxster. You go to the dealership and say: "Guys, I'd like that black one. But take off the wheels, I don't need them, I have my own. And while you're at it, remove the seats and the steering wheel." I wonder if you'll get a wild, unrestrained laugh in response, or just a look of incomprehension. ;) Think of the OS as part of the product you're buying. If you don't like it, feel free to build your own.
That's not quite an accurate example... because wheels, etc., are installed as standard, but a laptop doesn't come off the assembly line with Vista pre-installed. That's already an upsell in the store. It's more appropriate to compare it to when they try to sell you additional equipment that you don't need, and in some cases, certain models already come with extras as standard (for example, models with more powerful engines almost always have more options than their less powerful counterparts), and you can't remove anything from them, regardless of your knowledge of the law, because it's a ready-made model. But with Vista, etc., you just need to be confident and know your rights. When I bought a laptop, they not only sold it to me without any pre-installed software (although it originally had Vista), but they also downloaded the drivers for XP from the website and burned them to a CD in front of me (because now laptops only come with driver discs for Vista). Because the laws state that there should be full support, and if there is a version from the manufacturer (even from Windows 95/98), then everything should be included, and it used to be that way, but gradually it faded away. And you need to consider all of this as a form of deception, not as a default setting.
P.S. Those who bought a computer and saw that Vista and XP cost the same... there was a price increase for licensed XP (to encourage people to buy Vista), and the prices were almost the same, even XP was more expensive. As is the case now (XP Home ~ $80, Prof ~ $150, and Vista Home Basic ~ $80, Home Premium ~ $120, Business ~ $150, Ultimate > $200).
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
That's a strange position. Let's say you need a Porsche Boxster. You go to the dealership and say, "Hey, I'd like that black one over there. But take off the wheels, I don't need them, I have my own. And while you're at it, remove the seats and the steering wheel." I wonder if you'd get a wild, unrestrained laugh in response, or just a look of incomprehension ;)
You yourself feel that you've made a completely inappropriate comparison, right? It's absolutely irrelevant here, isn't it? Software (and the OS in particular) and hardware – there's no analogy to be made between a car and its wheels. I can't even imagine what a valid analogy could be between a car and a computer.
Hmm... but I'll try. You go to a car dealership and say you need that Porsche Boxster. And the manager starts telling you that it's a very new model with incredible capabilities, and it's sold as a package with a DRIVER who will drive you around, because you won't be able to drive it yourself. And they don't tell you that the driver costs xxx $. But if you ask if you can have the car without the driver, they say, "No, sorry, it's not sold separately." So, you end up buying it with the driver, you come home, you kill the driver, and you get behind the wheel yourself :D. But you still paid for the driver. Now, the picture should be somewhat similar.
And as for the wheels and steering wheel – no one is going to ask to rip the keyboard out of the laptop or remove the Wi-Fi card :D.
Consider the OS as part of the product you're buying. If it doesn't suit you, welcome to the world of custom builds.
But it's impossible to see it that way. I would gladly do it, but where can I find a service that offers custom builds? Are there many places where you live where you can assemble a laptop?
Added after 12 minutes Alan
And with Vista, etc., you just need to be confident and know your rights. When I bought a laptop, they not only sold it to me without the OS (although it originally had Vista installed), but they also downloaded the drivers for XP from the website and burned them to a CD in front of me (because now the laptop only comes with driver discs for Vista).
But did they reduce the price of the laptop by the cost of Vista? If not, then that's not a solution, because simply removing the OS without lowering the price of the hardware can be done in almost any store.
