What skills should Necromancers take when facing Orcs on a very large map? — Necropolis

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Registered: 7/18/2008 1:35 AM UTC

Posts: 129

8/12/2008 8:11 AM UTC

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Major Whirlwind and Player Undead don't necessarily need to focus on Darkness to defeat the Orcs, since Undead are not strong in either defense or attack, but there are many of them, so it's better to take Summoning and Light.

I don't understand the logic.
The logic is simple: since Undead are weak in defense and attack, it's better to use their numbers, letting them take the hits and then punish them with Divine Retribution.

Mines will disrupt their Rage.

Mines are a terrible thing against Orcs. They mostly have Wyverns and only one ranged unit (Cyclops don't count, they shoot poorly). But once the Orcs get close, they become useless.
Hmm... it's hard to use mines close to yourself, but what about crystals?

Divine Retribution will do the rest.

No, unfortunately, it won't. Retribution, as you can see, only attacks one stack at a time. Not to mention that the spell itself is masochistic. You have to take losses for it to become effective. And the Orcs will crush the Undead easily. Neither Haste nor Retribution will help here.
Considering that Undead is the most numerous race in the game, they have plenty to sacrifice.

You'll put a Berserker on a Cyclops.

Why on a Cyclops? I'd rather control Executioners; consider one attacking stack already neutralized, and Orcish units rarely reach you (and if the Necromancer upgrades Tactics, they definitely won't). You can use Executioners to attack Centaurs or Cyclops. It's not ideal, but Shamans aren't that scary. Goblins are a different story, but still, the chance of them deflecting a spell isn't very high.
I was responding to post 53. And you're very wrong about Goblins; if there are a lot of them, and they have 2 Knowledge, they can block any mage.

You're saying funny things; most likely, you've only played against the computer and never against a real player on a large map against the Orcs.

There's no need to make such harsh and unfounded statements.
Why unfounded? If you read the advice, you'll see that the most they've done is play against the computer and never against a real player

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Если ты спориш с идиотом проверь не делает ли он то же самого
Пунктация и орфография авторские, критике не подлежат.

Мы не жалели времени и силы,
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Registered: 11/8/2007 3:57 PM UTC

Posts: 1,820

8/12/2008 9:05 AM UTC

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LordViRuS

The logic is simple because the undead have weak defense and attack, so it's better to use their numbers, exposing them to attacks, and then punish them with divine retribution.

LordViRuS

Considering that the undead are the most numerous race in the game, there are plenty of units to sacrifice.

They may have the biggest stat boosts, but they are far from having high health. As a result, only zombies are "meaty" in their army. If you are gathering creatures from several cities and turning them into undead, then there is nothing to discuss. Such an army will be very difficult to break, and not just by an orc.

LordViRuS

Hmm... it's difficult to use mines near yourself, but what about crystals?

Crystals are not cool enough to influence the outcome of the battle. You can surround yourself with mines, but the orc will simply not move from its position and will attack those standing nearby. Then, it will reach the others over the corpses, and if it steps on a couple of mines, it won't be critical. However, in this regard, everything is unpredictable and is determined during the battle.

LordViRuS

You are very wrong about goblins. If there are many of them, and they have 2 attack, they will block any mage.

You are the one who is mistaken. If they always blocked in your experience (which I highly doubt), then you were just lucky. The base chance of deflection is 10%. Even if it doubles, it will only be 20%, which is definitely not something you can rely on. There is a much higher chance that the spell will cost twice as much mana or that the casting of the spell will be reduced by half.

LordViRuS

Why without foundation? If you read the advice, you will understand that at most, they played with the computer and not with a real player.

What exactly made you say that? And... are you saying that you have a lot of experience playing online, so you only see "funny things" here?

O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

8/12/2008 11:52 AM UTC

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LordViRuS, an Orc might be able to defeat the entire Necromancer's army before the Necromancer hero even gets a turn. What mines are you talking about? How many can you set up, and what impact will they have? Berserkers on centaurs or controlling Cyclops – sometimes that's the only thing that can help. That's the way it is.
Besides dark magic and a sharp mind (logistics + education), a Necromancer can, of course, take attack skills for tactical purposes, to reduce the number of troops that reach the rear, or defense to hold out longer until Battle Potion is available.
LordViRuS, watch the replay and tell me if mines would have helped the Necromancer in this situation...
But a sharp mind combined with control would have helped... Of course, the armies aren't equal, but the principle is important... Orcs are capable of defeating even larger stacks...

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In reply to Майор Вихрь

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Registered: 7/18/2008 1:35 AM UTC

Posts: 129

8/14/2008 12:47 PM UTC

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Major Whirlwind; 190466

Which specific comments led you to say that? And... are you saying that you have a lot of experience playing online, considering that all you hear here are "funny things"?

For example, the suggestion that Necromancers should upgrade Cursed Land (it deals 12 damage to Orcs), so why upgrade it? Or that Orcs should upgrade Anti-Darkness (they can defeat Necromancers without it, and if they do upgrade it, they'll just waste experience and an extra skill slot). Or upgrading Attack, Defense, and Luck against Orcs (what's the point of that?). Or that a Necromancer has an 80% chance of winning, which is only true if they really try and the opponent plays very poorly! So, that's where these conclusions come from.

Вступай вКлан "Вампиры" и пополни его ряды !
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Если ты спориш с идиотом проверь не делает ли он то же самого
Пунктация и орфография авторские, критике не подлежат.

Мы не жалели времени и силы,
Земля дрожала под ногами тьмы,
И род людской, беспомощный и хилый,
Рабами стал закрывшейся тюрьмы.

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Registered: 11/19/2007 1:02 PM UTC

Posts: 780

8/15/2008 6:20 AM UTC

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you were talking about Divine Vengeance here... saying it will solve everything.
Apparently, you've taken something into account that I don't know, because to me, it sounds like nonsense. What kind of spell is that, if it's light magic? And such a high-level one.

For example, the fact that you need to upgrade Cursed Land (it deals 12 damage to an Orc) – so why upgrade it?

Here, they were talking about the fact that it needs to be upgraded to reduce one of the Orc's Fury levels.

Besides dark magic and sharp intellect (logistics + education), you can also take attack for the Necropolis, for tactical reasons, to reduce the number of troops that reach the rear, or defense to hold out longer until the Battle of the Day.

Why Battle of the Day? oO

Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

8/15/2008 8:52 AM UTC

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LordViRuS, after watching your replay, what can I say... The player controlling the Necromancer clearly hasn't even played the campaigns. Anyone who has played them understands the 4th mission for Arantir, "Beasts and Bones," and has tried to attack the Orc town with over 400 Blood Cyclops, plus other troops. Arantir, around level 20, with a small army. Despite completely suppressing the Orc's vision with all the associated skills, some players, with the help of Berserk and Subjugate, even managed to repel the attack, or almost repel it... and these players understand the value of the aforementioned spells in fighting the Orc. But if, instead of using Berserk on the Cyclops or Subjugate on the Centaurs or Executioners, the Necromancer player repeatedly casts Unholy Word, which only kills one Cyclops in all five attempts... well, what can I say...
The Necromancer could have won here, and with almost no losses...
The Orc's development and actions are also astonishing... Tilsek, level 31, without a developed Ballista... how did that even happen?

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Registered: 7/18/2008 1:35 AM UTC

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8/15/2008 12:23 PM UTC

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I had the Dwarven Shield, and Berserk didn't affect me. And I didn't have Subjugation, even though I had a Library and 3 Castles! I developed Pure Rage and Defense, so the Necromancer had no chance.

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Если ты спориш с идиотом проверь не делает ли он то же самого
Пунктация и орфография авторские, критике не подлежат.

Мы не жалели времени и силы,
Земля дрожала под ногами тьмы,
И род людской, беспомощный и хилый,
Рабами стал закрывшейся тюрьмы.

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Registered: 11/8/2007 3:57 PM UTC

Posts: 1,820

8/15/2008 1:58 PM UTC

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LordViRuS, the Necromancer only managed to cast 5 spells. Could divine retribution have helped? Even if we consider the possibility of eliminating the entire stack with a single spell (although this is unlikely), he wouldn't be able to kill the entire enemy army. And what if the retribution doesn't hit? Would many tedious hours be wasted leveling up a 31st-level hero? Although, in general, without Subjugation and/or Berserk, the Necromancer doesn't really have much of a chance. However, we were talking about 3 cities. Could you provide more details? The Orc and Necropolis gains in battle were approximately equal, but if the Necromancer had several cities, regardless of what kind, he would definitely be able to achieve a significant numerical advantage.

Regarding the Orc hero, the player correctly pointed out that the hero is level 31, but the Executioners and Cyclops don't reach the battlefield on the first turn... That's just terrible...

O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

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Registered: 6/13/2007 6:03 PM UTC

Posts: 4,711

8/15/2008 3:41 PM UTC

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the necromancer only managed to cast 5 spells. Could divine retribution have helped? Even if we consider the possibility of eliminating the entire stack with a single cast (although this is unlikely), he wouldn't be able to kill the entire enemy army.

This is highly unlikely, as a significant portion of the damage from Armageddon's Blade will be absorbed by Wrath... :)

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Registered: 2/3/2007 8:01 AM UTC

Posts: 414

8/15/2008 8:49 PM UTC

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Loken, if the Necropolis has the "Battle to the Last" ability, the Orc will have to make 7 more attack actions. And that's time, time for additional spells.
That's how I figured it out. I've never tried it myself.

In reply to Dracon Малласа

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Registered: 12/14/2007 9:03 AM UTC

Posts: 280

8/16/2008 1:41 AM UTC

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Dracon Mallasa;187323

Moreover, not only without a silence spell, but also with a damaged army, which is definitely not suitable for a large map.
If the game were played on a small map, then it would be possible not to use a silence spell, but simply to quickly defeat the necromancer with orcs before he even has time to build a level 3 mage guild! But on a large map, it's impossible to fight without a silence spell.

When orcs fight a necromancer on a large map, it's better to not use the darkness silence spell (it doesn't work well, unlike the chaos silence spell), but instead, upgrade magic resistance (reflection, magic defense, and barbarian luck) + a set of magic defense artifacts + goblin shamans. Here's an interesting battle with a subjugation objective.

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:smile24: Клан ВАМПИРЫ:smile19:

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Registered: 6/13/2007 6:03 PM UTC

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8/16/2008 2:00 AM UTC

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barbarian luck

It seems we've mentioned several times that barbarian luck is practically useless. And even if it helps somehow, it will only reduce the damage from spells, which is not very useful in the Darkness faction... ;)

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Registered: 7/18/2008 1:35 AM UTC

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8/16/2008 2:46 AM UTC

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BM certainly wouldn't have won the battle, but it would have inflicted significant damage on the Orc (after first removing its Rage ability). Yes, the Necropolis had 3 cities, but it couldn't buy the entire army; it lacked the funds! And even Subjugation from VarvarHawk's replay wouldn't have saved the Necropolis; this confirms it. So, I believe that the Necromancer has a very small chance of winning against the Orc, both on a small and a large map. And Darkness Shield is not needed for him! He would tear the Necromancer apart even without it.

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Если ты спориш с идиотом проверь не делает ли он то же самого
Пунктация и орфография авторские, критике не подлежат.

Мы не жалели времени и силы,
Земля дрожала под ногами тьмы,
И род людской, беспомощный и хилый,
Рабами стал закрывшейся тюрьмы.

In reply to Amko

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Registered: 12/14/2007 9:03 AM UTC

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8/16/2008 2:57 AM UTC

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Amaranth;191103

It seems we've mentioned several times that Barbarian Luck is practically useless. And even if it does help, it only reduces the damage from spells, which is not very helpful in Darkness...;)

It certainly won't help against Darkness, but it will give a small bonus to the overall magic resistance. Well, maybe it's better to develop something else instead of Barbarian Luck.

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Registered: 1/23/2007 8:22 AM UTC

Posts: 1,017

12/1/2008 9:55 PM UTC

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What if you level up a Necromancer? Focus on Light skills. All mass spells. Education. Logistics. Luck. And the rest, choose as you like: Machines, Darkness for vampirism, or something else.