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Posts from Tactics for Dungeon.

Tactics
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Offline Qwerty
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#229
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On most maps, you need to recruit a significant number of heroes. The "strike force" tactic – maximizing strength in a single slot – is effective. If Shanti isn't available, Galtran as a second hero can be an interesting option (almost a joke). For the first week, focus on building a strong strike force – upgraded Trolls are a good choice if you have enough resources. Dragon lairs are ideal, but a Minotaur lair can also be very helpful. Developing your primary castle is important, but it depends on the availability (or potential availability) of resources and the timing of capturing a secondary castle. If you capture a Barbarian secondary castle on the second turn and see a lot of wood, crystals, Gnomish mines (potential crystals), and a monster lair, build the Barbarian secondary castle and, after capturing the monster lair, build a summoning portal in your primary castle. Even if you only build the monster lair in your primary castle on the second week, with the lair and portal, you'll have 1+1+1+1+3+1=8 monsters by day 131 (!!!), and by day 141, you'll have 13 monsters!!!! already upgraded, plus Wyverns and Angels. If you capture a Swamp secondary castle early, consider building at least Wyverns there. However, everything ultimately depends on the map. Starting with Shanti is generally the best option.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
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Offline Forrest
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#230
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КостяN;202780
If it's not too much trouble, help a newbie.

If you absolutely don't want to play as Shakti (thereby reducing her offensive power), then try Gunnarr (he has overpowered logistics in SoD) or Arlasha (his offensive power increases dramatically with advanced artillery).

Your army will consist of around 70+ Trogols, a few Harpies, and if you're lucky, an Eye. Build the Eye on the first day. With such an army, breaking through will be easy. The task for the first week is to build Minotaurs with a castle (if you have a lot of resources, also build Catapults with a castle). Don't touch the dwellings at the beginning, just scout. If you find 5-7 dwellings, that's luck – you need to capture them and build a portal. But if it's very difficult to break through, for example, you can immediately capture an Eye dwelling and build a portal with them in the first few days, getting 20+ Eyes, which will significantly improve your tactics. As soon as you start building strong units (Minotaurs, Catapults), you need to immediately bring them to your main hero during the first week. For Gunnarr, in the beginning, only take skills that increase logistics. And Earth or Air magic at level 3-4 (you don't need Fire). Most likely, you'll get Earth.
Then look for Slow. And at the beginning of the second week, having, for example, 9 Minotaurs (if there are no dwellings), with magic (build a Mana Vortex), you can already take on something more serious. If there is no Earth expert, then Blindness will be very helpful; build a second tower, and with doubled mana, there will be plenty of it. If there is no clear plan for priorities, then look for gold and sulfur, build Dragons. Destroy Naga Temples and Medusa Lairs.
You asked about Harpies. Well, you need to upgrade them on the second week at the beginning to give them to the Scouts for speed and to accelerate Gunnarr. They don't have much combat value in small numbers (unless Lorelei comes at the start and Harpies are built, then you can upgrade them to 1-1-1).
You need to use Gunnarr's advantages – a very large movement range. That is, visit all the objects for parameters, etc. Try it :)
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#231
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Forrest;202850
try Gunnarr (overpowered logistics in SoD)
Let's discuss this a bit... Why did Gunnarr's logistics (Kirr, Dess) suddenly become overpowered? (I've heard this before, but I'm only thinking about it now.)

How does the specialty work? If Gunnarr, with a Logistics Expert, is maxed out on speed (11 or higher), his bonus will be 30 movement points per level. A little math:
MP = 2000 (from speed 11) + 600 (Logistics Expert) + 30*n (n-Gunnarr's level)
total:
Level 5 - 2750 MP
Level 10 - 2900 MP
Level 15 - 3050 MP
Level 20 - 3200 MP
In other words, at level twenty, we get a double bonus from logistics; a regular hero with a Logistics Expert will have 2600 MP! (Remember that 1 step = 100 MP off the road and without a penalty).
Now let's think. The difference between a regular hero and a level 20 Gunnarr is only 600 MP, which is 6 steps (4 diagonally), or a little more on the road...

BUT IS THIS A CHEAT????
If this is a cheat, then what about Tazar?

P.S.: In TE, it would be like this: 2600 for a regular hero, and 2700 for Gunnarr... Only 1 step advantage!!! This is called depriving a hero of their specialty, not balance!
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Offline КостяN
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#232
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Qwerty and Forrest, thanks for the advice (unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to increase morale through messages; I clicked on the forum several times, seemingly correctly, but it remained unchanged:()!).
I decided to try Gunar, and to my surprise, I had the best start in the first week ever:eek: (for you, of course, this is practically standing still:D). I built mines in the castle (considering that I immediately upgraded trolls, and harpies were not built), and even - which is a real achievement for my level of play - on day 211, I opened the maximum crypt with minimal losses:cool::D. But I have nothing more to "brag" about: in the next 10 days, nothing significant was done, and I have little money (even with 2 heroes with +350 gold per day). In short, my playing style (developed against "genius" AI) needs to be completely changed:smile18:. Perhaps my main problem, besides the tactical part of the battles (where I somehow managed to gradually lose all the trolls and harpies, and almost all the medusas), is that I don't effectively use the "batch" of heroes (who are "noobs," "scouts," or whatever else they are called - "lurkers"): I can create a "chain" somehow, but how to use them to defend against something else (the most pressing question: where to get so many troops and money?) and what else to use them for (well, for example: is it necessary to defend and regularly visit various "discos" and mills?) - :smile32:, they just "graze" in one place for several days after delivering troops...
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Forrest
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#233
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KostyaN;203040
Well, I can make a "chain," albeit clumsily, but how do you use it to defend something else (the most pressing question: where do you get so many troops and gold?) and what else can it be used for (e.g., do you need to defend and regularly visit various "discos" and mills?) - :smile32:, they can just "graze" in one place for a few days after passing the troops...

The idea of the chain is to create a kind of carousel. The army fights, and 3-4 heroes take turns each day, passing the army to each other. This way, the army's efficiency is many times greater.
Of course, the main hero handles the difficult battles, while the others scout for resources, dungeons, and so on.

Added 5 minutes later
Dirty_Player;203015
Let's discuss this a bit... Why has Gunnar's (Kirr, Dessy) logistics suddenly become overpowered? There's only a 600 MP difference between a regular hero and a level 20 Gunnar, which is 6 steps (4 diagonally), and that's a bit more on the road...

BUT IS THIS CHEATING????
If this is cheating, then what about Tazar?

P.S.: In TES, it would be like this: 2600 for a regular hero and 2700 for Gunnar... only 1 step advantage!!! This is called depriving a hero of their specialty, not balancing!
12 steps on a "paved road." Is that a little? And that's every day!
Over a month of gameplay, that's an extra 3-4 game days. And if you need to chase after a logistics hero in the late game with a larger army, it's simply impossible. That's why Kirr wasn't allowed to visit stables in the late game in the Chaos League!

Regarding logistics heroes in TES. Kirr is still used by all the top players. This means he's good. In the early game, the bonus is even greater than in SoD
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#234
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Forrest;203073
12 steps along the "paved road." Is that a small amount? And this happens every day!
Over a month of playing, this will add 3-4 extra game days. And if you need to chase the Logistics hero in the late game while having a larger army, it's simply impossible. That's why in the Dungeon faction, Kirra couldn't visit the stables in the late game!
The hero doesn't only travel on roads; for example, there are no roads in the Treasury...
So, if Logistics is considered overpowered, why do players start with Shakti instead of Gunnar for the Dungeon faction, or with Craig or Gurnisson instead of Dess for the Stronghold faction?
Why is Kirra nerfed in The Restoration of Erathia, while Tazara is buffed?
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Offline Forrest
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#235
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Dirty_Player;203102
The hero doesn't just walk on roads; for example, there are no roads in the treasury...
So, if logistics is considered cheating, why do players starting as Dungeon choose Shakti instead of Gunnarr, and why do they choose Craig or Gurnisson for Stronghold instead of Dess?
Why is Kirr nerfed in the Tournament Edition, while Tazar is buffed?
You answered it yourself. Kirr is played in the Tournament Edition, but Tazar is rarely played.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#236
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Forrest;203105
You answered it yourself. People play Kirrem, but almost no one plays Tazar. :)
After conducting a very thorough analysis of the latest posts, I have concluded that I don't know how to play Heroes.
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Offline КостяN
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#237
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Forrest;203073
The point of creating a "chain" is to have a kind of carousel. The army fights, and 3-4 heroes take turns leading it each day, passing it on to each other. This way, the army's efficiency is many times greater.
Of course, the main hero handles the difficult battles, while the "scouts" gather resources, explore ruins, and so on.
:confused: I immediately thought that I don't know "Heroes 3" well enough, which is scary:) I meant by "chain" only the transfer of newly recruited troops from the castle to the "roaming" hero, but after reading some topics on the site, I realized that many people understand "chain" in the same way. The idea is, of course, interesting, and maybe that's how everyone plays online, but the main problem is this: if my troops are quickly defeated under the leadership of a hero, what will happen to them in the hands of inexperienced "trainees":D ... On the topic: well, let's say the army of the first day consists of 75 trolls and 10 harpies and 10 ogres each - can they really capture, without catastrophic losses, at least a crypt with 5 vampires or some weak dwarven town (not to mention breaking through a crowd of archers, even of level 3), let alone with a "scout"?...
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Oelm
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#238
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I just tried taking a Dungeon with 5 vampires using a level 1 hero. Attack and defense are 0. The army consists of 75 upgraded Trolls (it's pointless not to upgrade them), 10 Harpies, and 7 Eyes.
I didn't use any magic. The Dungeon is on grass. The arrangement is: 1 Troll, 7 Eyes, 1 Troll, 73 Trolls, 8 Harpies, Harpy, Harpy.
The losses were 2 Harpies and 3 Trolls.

If the hero had combat skills or a blessing, the maximum damage would have been even lower.

I think there shouldn't be any problems with Goblins on levels 10-15 either. :D
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Offline КостяN
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#239
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Oelm;203824
I just tried taking a Dungeon with 5 vampires using a level 1 hero. Attack and defense are 0. The army consists of 75 upgraded Trolls (not upgrading them is pointless), 10 Harpies, and 7 Eyes.
I didn't use any magic. The Dungeon is on grass. The arrangement is: 1 Troll, 7 Eyes, 1 Troll, 73 Trolls, 8 Harpies, Harpy, Harpy.
The losses were 2 Harpies and 3 Trolls.

With this setup, the vampires would move first and attack the 8 Harpies, which is "good" because they can reach them :D (their speed is 6, and in this case, the computer always goes first). And there would already be 2 dead Harpies initially :( .
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Oelm
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#240
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KocтяN, try it yourself first, and then write. Vampires aren't black dragons, after all.
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Offline КостяN
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#241
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Here's another point regarding the "Shakti troll stack's" ability to break through defenses: I was practicing and generated a map underground with lots of interesting hiding spots (including cats and dragons). Having read about using utopias behind Shakti on the first week, I rushed to level 113 to drive away dragons from just 10-19 un-upgraded human knights:rolleyes: (120 trolls, with a configuration buff, and a starting artifact ring for health:cool:). I thought:smile19:, but it turned out to be:smile34: (they split into 2-3 stacks each and simply overwhelmed them with the number of stacks, although in the first 3-4 rounds they tried not to attack the trolls – they were afraid, but in the end only 10 of them fell, and 6 remained). QUESTION:confused: What was done wrong?
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Oelm
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#242
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You might as well attack the Necropolis Knights:smile03:

P.S. I wrote this and doubted it,
so, Shahkti is an expert in attacks, and this is an advanced tactic. 3-3 attack and defense.
Army: 120 gr of Trogols, 7 gr of Harpies, 7 Eyes. I had 70 Trogols survive (I was attacking 17 Knights), which is, of course, not enough for the Dragon Queen. It seems that a better battle could be fought, but here, the fact that Trogols can destroy a triple stack, or they might not, greatly affects the losses. However, with meat from the third hero, the losses will probably be quite acceptable.
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Offline КостяN
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#243
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I had 3 Eye of the Storm and 4 un-upgraded Harpies, the Trolls were upgraded, and Shakti wasn't yet an attack expert (I don't remember if it was basic or advanced). While there were over a hundred of them, 2 were still killed in one hit, three are already gone, and when their numbers decreased, the horses simply trampled them:D! And then, another time, I tried – in principle, if you don't set unrealistic tasks, it's not bad, but still, in almost every other battle, if not the first, 5-10 Trolls die, i.e., by the end of the week, this very powerful stack significantly "melts":mad:. (I'm not very good at dealing with neutral creatures – especially those with skill 6+ – divided into 2 or more stacks; at least one Troll will attack, and no "tempting" retreat helps:mad:).
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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