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Posts from Tactics and strategy in Heroes of Might and Magic V.
Regarding point 1 - yes, a Warlock is strong not only with magic; regarding point 2 - in 3-4 turns, they can just as easily kill our army; regarding point 3 - I would like more details about the defense and 30% damage reduction of Necromancers from enemy spells (from Chaos magic). P.S. And my humble opinion regarding logistics - its role is important, especially on large maps.
Point 2. A mage won't be able to kill you with defense.... And I didn't say that magic damage is reduced... 30% physical damage is reduced - everyone knows that....
3. Regarding the Necromancer - you won't care about these classes... because defense doesn't increase defense (yeah, right...), but reduces damage... by 30%...
This was the previous state.
p.2. With defense, a mage won't be able to kill you.... And I didn't say that magic damage is reduced... 30% of physical damage is reduced - everyone knows that....
And this is the current state.
So, what happened to my griffons?! I'm worried...
P.S.
So you're not a noob.
I insist :)
Tomorrow holds no promises Except the ones we've made
Most often, people play on Veteran difficulty, and there are definitely resources available there. And it's not that bad on Hero difficulty either. An experienced player knows exactly how many resources are needed over a certain period of time, with a specific starting castle level and for a particular faction, to optimize building. They also know the ranges for resource piles and camps, with only a correction for the randomness.
Did I say that this isn't the case?
The average two-on-two duel lasts 3 months (monsters are strong, skill is the hero's, template is any champion-level unit)...
Fireball;202164
Sometimes it's really worth taking chests for experience if you urgently need to gain a specific skill. But in most cases, you take gold, and definitely not after level 20. Besides, it's a wasted turn for the main hero.
With good management, there shouldn't be any problems with gold by the third week.... Why not take experience.... And especially at the beginning - three chests - 2/3 of a level - is that really better than 4500 gold? Fireball;202164
Only on extremely resource-poor maps. In all parts of Heroes, troops are prioritized, bought with money from buildings and chests, and then used in battles to help the hero gain experience. Not experience (almost always less) from chests, but instead, we build up our economy and end up with no army.
If you know how to conserve your army, you won't end up with no army.... A more experienced hero means a stronger army.... One week that you waste on economy/leveling up is just one increase in stats... It doesn't decide anything because you and your opponent will both be losing troops to neutrals. The whole point is not to lose troops!
Fireball;202164
The opinion that Logistics is not needed in the final stage is extremely wrong. A Logistics hero not only chooses the time to attack, i.e., can gather bonuses for Luck, Morale, 10% HP for the final battle, which fully compensates for the loss of a combat slot, because the enemy won't have these bonuses, but also statistically has more artifacts. Moreover, there are Native Lands for warriors and Order of the Unicorn for mages - awesome things.
When I come to your castle, I choose the time to attack.... And all those bonuses you wrote about are nonsense.... The one who played the !ENTIRE! duel better, lost less, and gathered more wins.... Most often, it's clear who won even before the final battle, even in a 2v2.... And he won't have more artifacts - both have the same number of slots, and they will all be filled. You'll say that the artifacts will be better? The main thing is not the coolness of the artifacts, but their smart placement according to the situation....
Fireball;202164
If you're going to fight defensively in the final stage, maybe it's better to level up to Readiness, especially if you have Vampirism?
But what if you're not fighting defensively? Does defense not work anymore?
The week you waste on economy/development is just one turn... It doesn't decide anything because you and your opponent will both be losing troops to neutral creatures...
Hmm... so I understand that your opponent will *always* lose troops, under any circumstances!! Absolutely!
Good tactic...
When I come to your castle, I'll choose the time to attack...
And all those bonuses you mentioned are nonsense...
When you come to my castle... well, I'll be waiting for you patiently for 3 months. I'll only build the first 2 levels and periodically go out and get wiped out by Titans...
And the bonuses... what can I say... 10% health... it's nothing. +X to morale/luck... meh...
You'll say there will be better artifacts? The main thing isn't the coolness of the artifacts, but their smart placement according to the situation...
Give me the power of dragons, and you can have 8 lucky clovers.
So, what happened to the griffins?
P.S.
based on my many years of experience...
7 years? 8?
Tomorrow holds no promises Except the ones we've made
Fireball
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Did I say that it wasn't?
You were talking about geniuses, not just any experienced players. Well, never mind, it's a minor detail.
And especially at the beginning - three chests - 2/3 of a level - is definitely better than 4500 gold.
Not always better, because you'll get those levels almost always in the first couple of days anyway.
Spending a week on economy/development is just one small boost... It doesn't decide anything, because you and your opponent will be losing troops on neutral creatures... The whole point is not to lose troops!
Troops aren't lost only when the hero is stronger, but also when there are more of them. Are you going to spend a week, when the game essentially ends in 3-4 weeks? On some maps, it ends in 2 weeks, like on the standard "Former Friends" and "Dragon's Passage" maps.
When I come to your Castle, I choose the time to attack...
Do you know the saying that equal players meet in the center? If the game goes into the late game, then it's when it's more convenient for the Logistician. And if the players aren't very equal, then the result is predetermined.
And all those bonuses you wrote about are nonsense...
Really... 10% HP is equivalent to Basic Defense (1 upgrade), and it's easy to get Luck and Morale +2 (you can even get more, like +5) - this is like Developed Leadership and Developed Luck. In total, you get 5 effective upgrades in combat skills, which compensates for the full development of the Logistician, because he will definitely have one more combat skill.
And he won't have more artifacts - both have the same number of slots - and they will all be filled... You'll say that there will be better artifacts? The main thing is not the coolness of the artifacts, but their smart placement according to the situation...
How many months do you play if you have all the slots filled with good artifacts? Is this only on maps with a lot of undead?
The one who played !ALL! duels better, lost less, and gathered more wins.
These are just words. Practically any player loses no more than 10-20% of their maximum army. An exception is possible only with a very quick rush. But the speed of army building and treasure acquisition is really different.
And what if it's not from defense? Does defense not work anymore?
It works, but not against the defense of a Necromancer, as was the case, you often can't play very well. Then, Preparedness may be much more effective, and it also saves mana.
Mdance
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Hmm... It's a good topic – the further you go, the stranger and stranger things get... (c)
So, who's next in line to share their great knowledge?
RAMSnake aka Satanyst
Actually, I'm not very good at playing as Necropolis, because I immediately violate a lot of the tactical and strategic development points suggested here.
1. I almost always take Logistics.
2. I almost always try to develop the Necromancer with exactly 2 spells.
3. I never upgrade Skeleton Archers to Skeleton Warriors.
6. I don't remember what the Necropolis Dragons look like.
7. I (like the respected Fireball) also think that "the Daedra specialization is useless".
And there's a lot more. Although, even this is enough to understand that I don't know how to play as Necropolis...
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой, Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой, Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд, Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
Amko
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I didn't want to interfere. But I will. I agree with Mdans on many points, except for 2, and partially, 3. Regarding point 2: It makes sense in late game. It doesn't work well in fast games. There is little mana. 3: Warrior skeletons are strong in the late game. Very strong. Stunning strike works often enough. They have huge damage. Initiative is also good. Verdict: the main attacking stack;
P.S.: You are straying from the topic, gentlemen. Posts concerning only Necropolis should be written in this section.
I'll just reply here, and further discussions will naturally take place in the Necropolis section:)
Amaranth;202209
It makes sense for the late game. It doesn't work well in fast games. There's not enough mana.
Do you think a fast map is the key? However, it's easy to get 2 magic skills there. And Necromancers never have too little mana - it's practically unlimited;)
Amaranth;202209
Warrior Skeletons are strong in the late game. Very strong. The stunning attack works quite often. They have huge damage. And their initiative is also good. Verdict: the main attack stack;)
Am I arguing? I just said that I'm not overestimating Archers into Warriors:D
I don't even remember what Archers look like. I never use them. I always start with Warriors and play with them :)
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой, Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой, Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд, Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
Qwerty
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2 Topic author We are looking forward to the continuation of your posts. I only have one question. You write that logistics is supposedly not too needed for the main hero. And then that capturing dwellings is very important. I, as you already know, have extremely little experience, and I don't know how to play Heroes V. However, it seems to me that if the hero runs further, he will also capture dwellings earlier. Again, the issue of battles with losses at an early stage arises here. If the hero breaks through early into a neighboring zone (adjacent respawn, treasury), even with losses, but captures a dwelling there a week earlier — he will still be ahead! The losses are compensated by the earlier capture of the dwelling, and the hero's experience will remain! We will be looking forward to your next posts.
Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
Boris K
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Whether or not to invest in Logistics depends on the map (in my opinion). If mines and passages to enemy territory are guarded by hundreds of neutral creatures of level 4 or higher, the first to arrive won't be the one who moves quickly, but the one who deals more damage. In the campaigns of the original game and both expansions, I only upgraded Logistics for Agrael. The others don't need to rush.
Whether or not to take Logistics depends on the map (IMHO). If the mines and passages to the enemy territory are guarded by hundreds of neutral creatures of level 4 or higher, the one who reaches them first won't be the one who moves faster, but the one who hits harder. In the vanilla campaign and both expansions, I only upgraded Logistics for Agrael. The others don't need to rush.
In general, whether or not to take any skill depends on the map. In all versions of Heroes. That's a fact. I completely agree. However, there are certain values that are relevant in 80%, 90%, or 95% of cases. It is these patterns that, in my opinion, it makes sense to talk about. Without forgetting, of course, to add that this applies in most, but not all cases, and of course, it depends on the map.
However, there is a big difference between enemy territory and neutral territory. In campaigns, the opponent is quite conditional. If you're not trying to set records, then it can probably be compared to playing tennis against a wall. I don't really believe that in most maps, there's nowhere to rush. And it seems that the one who runs around more, also levels up more (in a broad sense: both experience and visiting special buildings, and dwellings, and artifacts...).
Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
Lord Vampire
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Here, the author of the thread emphasizes the importance of army size and its management. While quantity has never been an indicator of a hero's strength, nor has their level. Regarding the defense skill, I have never taken it, and certainly not against neutral creatures. I've never considered it a useful skill. I guess that makes me a noob. Logistics, on the other hand, is a skill that's best to have. And there are plenty of useful items for battles.
Тот, кто находит удовольствие в уединении, либо дикий зверь, либо Бог (с) Аристотель
I also wanted to offer some criticism of RAMSnake, aka Satanyst. I disagree with him on many points. NEREWAR, Fireball, WisTrit, Mdance, and others have already expressed their opinions, and I agree more with them. This applies to gold gathering, hero development (which perk to take, which not to), and building structures in the city...
(It seemed to me that RAMSnake, aka Satanyst, is a proponent of accumulating a lot of gold, assembling a formidable army, and then, around the 2nd or 3rd month, carrying out a total sweep. This can be done leisurely for enjoyment. But in practice, by the 2nd or 3rd week, your opponent will defeat you, and their hero will level up twice as much....)
But perhaps it's better to say this: we'll wait for a new player (hopefully a master of the game) in the upcoming tournaments for the fifth installment. And during the post-match analysis, they will explain everything to us in detail, showing how they achieved their high result. And we will all learn from this clear example how to develop and win correctly.:)
Added 9 minutes later What surprised me most was the reluctance to take Logistics. With the "Path of War" perk, you can clear the map 2-3 times faster than without Logistics. And, accordingly, the hero will fight more battles and gain more experience. And even with a small army (but a high-level hero), they will simply appear near your castle when you least expect it.... and your hero will definitely be more than a day's journey away:)
1. But he has one less skill and three fewer perks... (logistics won't help you much in battle) 2. I can't argue with that - yes... with logistics, you'll clear the map about 30% faster, and with all the advantages you mentioned - about 50%.... To be honest, I used to think that the faster you clear the map, the better - but over time, I changed my mind.... One extra skill is a lot.... 3. Yes, he "decides" when to launch the final attack (but only if he is the aggressor) - but he gets beaten in it)))
RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
It's clear that Tomik won't be available often... If in battle you rely only on the mass spells you mentioned, you don't know how to use magic (no offense).... Powerful spells can give a huge advantage in the hands of an experienced player.... And using powerful spells from two schools at once - you can imagine.... Let me give you an example... yesterday (literally) there was a battle between a Knight and an Elf.... my hero is a Knight.... My opponent has 280 Arcane Archers - he obviously protected them.... What mass spell will save you here? I went for Dark Magic.... Berserk on the Arcane Archers - and in two turns they destroyed their own Druids and didn't fire a single shot in the battle.... P.S. I lost that battle (left 100 Arcane Archers/30 Unicorns), but the duel is still ongoing)
Let's combine the answer to the two questions into one. First of all, how did you conclude that I only rely on mass spells in battle? Just because I gave such an example? Then the same can be said about you. After all, in the example above, you wrote that you only used Berserk.
By the way, here's a replay from a recent game. Although it featured Light Magic, you could have just as easily used the Sudden Attack perk from Logistics (it gives teleportation). This is how you learned advanced Dark Magic to get Berserk, and I could have easily neutralized it with Logistics ;) At the same time, the teleportation obtained with the Sudden Attack perk shifts the teleported unit by 0.5 on the initiative scale, so it will attack immediately after teleportation, and you won't have time to move your troops. Okay, let's move on from Berserk.
Now, a few combinations involving Logistics and two schools of magic: 1) Heavenly Shield on Hydras, teleport them (again, Logistics) to the enemy, let them have some fun, and then burn the enemy with Chaos. 2) Keen Mind (Logistics), go before the enemy hero, we can use counter-spells, we can enchant or Berserk, we can speed up our own troops. 3) Mass acceleration, Stone Skin, Crushing Blow, then cast Shock of Earth on an arrow and hit the cursed ones.RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
I know about the 2% - believe me, if you want it, you'll get it! You'll find it on the map, you'll start leveling up perks, but you'll get it!
How about that? If you really want it, you can fly into space? I want it badly, but somehow I'm not flying. Probably because while I'm wanting, all the decent skills will pass me by, and I'll be left with just one defense.RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
Where did you get these zombies? Did you cheat? If not, think about it - the enemy also has a decent army.... Yesterday I played two against two - my ally, a Necromancer, attacked a Warlock, do you know how many zombies the Warlock killed? 150 zombies.... How long do you think the battle lasted?
600 zombies under Orson, with Mark, with Resistance, with Reflection... And for your Warlock to kill 600 zombies, he needs to go 600/150 = 4 times, and then a couple more times to kill the resurrected ones, and then a couple more times, and then... And then the Warlock will run out of mana, but the Necromancer won't ;)RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
1. Against a Dark Elf... if you think that the strength of a Dark Elf lies only in magic or that he can only win with magic, you are a very weak player (don't throw stones at me!)...
Interesting, what will you do against a Warlock who shows up on the third or fourth week with 14 Griffins, Ballistics Defense, and advanced Chaos and Sorcery? He will burn your entire army with magic, and you will only be hitting the Griffins.RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
2. If your army is strong in defense, and your opponent is any mage, he can only hit you with magic, and his army won't do anything to you - so you just throw your army at the enemy and kill them in 3-4 turns!
But what if the enemy goes first? If the enemy has advanced Attack (which, if I remember correctly, not only negates defense but also leaves some of its bonus. That is, the attacker is in a winning position.)RAMSnake aka Satanyst;202137
Since two people are telling me about Logistics, maybe I should think about it, right? To be honest, I'll think about it, I'll probably even change something in the article.....
+1 But you don't necessarily have to change the article....
UPDNightwell;202314
Skilled Attack gives +15% damage in melee Skilled Defense reduces damage taken by troops by 30%. So, the advantage is with the defender. Unless the attacker has a crazy "attack" parameter.
I was drunk :)) I just remembered this, but I got everything mixed up. Defense is better than attack, yes.
But what if the enemy goes first? If the enemy has a high attack stat (which, if I remember correctly, not only negates defense but also leaves a portion of its bonus. Meaning the attacker is in a more advantageous position.)
Skilled Attack grants +15% melee damage. Skilled Defense reduces damage dealt to troops by 30%. This means the defender has the advantage, unless the attacker has an extremely high attack stat.
RAMSnake aka Satanyst
RAMSnake aka Satanyst
