A program for determining luck/morality in Heroes 3! — Offline tournaments.

Catch

18 years ago

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cyberB;189637

I'll say only one thing: I'm no longer a player in SoD. At all. I'll be mastering TE and the second game. Competing with such lucky guys is not for me.

cyberB aka Banan.

P. S. I feel like I'm in IronEx's shoes, when about three years ago he was saying absolutely the same thing on HeroesPortal regarding the fourth game and external dwellings. He ended up getting banned back then.

That is exactly what I am talking about.

VDV_forever;189638

First of all, correct the rules for 2 and 3 and bring them to a unified format, as well as instruct the organizers on how to properly check and accept saves. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if in one case you ban, and in another you encourage.;)

Your irony is misplaced and simply astonishing in this situation. In my opinion, only you have been noticed engaging in such actions. Undoubtedly, if the situation requires it, necessary changes will be made to the rules of the tournaments that I conduct.

Same thing in the first game:smile42:

Unfortunately, unlike in the second game, morale in the first game does not have the ability to trigger constantly regardless of player actions, as happens in the second game. So one cannot rule out the appearance of a "skilled person" who liquidates tournaments in the first game, just as is currently happening in the third game.

In reply to Dirty_Player

cyberB

18 years ago

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VDV_forever;189638

What does vbn have to do with it?

Check his post on page 11; there's also a video there.

Dirty_Player;189647

Although I often have conflicting views with VDV, he's right now! I'm sure that such a program has been written a long time ago, and many dads are very skillfully using it! But as they say, if you're not caught, you're not a thief
Surely everyone remembers the great battle of DmitriAS in the garrison in the "Time of Change" tournament! This battle doesn't even compare to the canned units and titans! But no one will say a word against such an authoritative player as Dima! So why are there accusations against vbn here??? He is also a player with a "name" and has earned his authority!!!
And he filmed the battle on video as proof of his words, and didn't just describe the battle, saying it was like this and that!

I don't even want to explain the difference between a great battle and described luck.

In the battle with the titans, luck was 4 out of 5 times, but as it was said, this wasn't the case in the original!!!

5 out of 6.

And the battle with the griffins is really very beautiful and good!!!

There is nothing beautiful or good about it.

despite your success in the CG tournament

How does my success (or lack thereof) relate to this topic?

Nzol;189621

So, dear programmers, think carefully and measure the consequences seven times if you love this game.

The genie is already out of the bottle.

In reply to Catch

VDV_forever

18 years ago

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Catch;189651

Unfortunately, unlike in Heroes of Might and Magic II, in Heroes of Might and Magic I, morale doesn't have the ability to appear consistently regardless of the players' actions, as it does in Heroes of Might and Magic II. So, it's impossible to rule out the appearance of someone who will disrupt tournaments in Heroes of Might and Magic I, just as it is happening now in Heroes of Might and Magic III.

Are you saying that the appearance of morale and luck is 100% determined by an algorithm from the very beginning of the game? I don't believe it.
In Heroes of Might and Magic I, this appearance of morale and luck can be repeated with a probability of 99%.
I can explain in detail how to check this in practice.

In reply to cyberB

Dirty_Player

18 years ago

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cyberB;189654

I don't even want to explain the difference between a "great battle" and pure luck.

I'm sure that no one who is discussing it has ever actually seen that battle! So, let's not talk about great battles!

cyberB;189654

5 out of 6.

Yes, 5 out of 6. My mistake! But one time, luck wasn't even needed, because 7 Djinns would have died anyway, and the half-dead Titan too.

cyberB;189654

There is nothing beautiful or good about it.

Everyone has their own concept of beauty, so let's not compare opinions! I really enjoyed the battle, and someone is just looking for someone to accuse of cheating!

In reply to Dirty_Player

cyberB

18 years ago

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Dirty_Player;189664

I'm sure that no one who is discussing this has ever even seen that battle! So, let's not talk about great battles!

I didn't start the conversation about "great battles."

Yes, 5 out of 6. My bad! But that one time, and for the last time, luck wasn't even needed, because 7 Djinns would have died anyway, and the half-dead Titan too.

It wasn't needed, but it happened. What a stroke of luck!

In reply to VDV_forever

Catch

18 years ago

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VDV_forever;189660

Are you saying that the morale and luck drops are 100% determined by an algorithm from the very beginning of the game? I don't believe it.
In the first game, this morale and luck drop can be repeated with a 99% probability.
I can explain in detail how to test this in practice.

In the second game, morale and luck drop are fixed and depend only on the player's actions. Therefore, any battle can be repeated based on the description. In the first game, morale and luck are not fixed. So, another clever person could write a program that would also eliminate this, just like we are currently seeing with the third game.

In reply to cyberB

Dirty_Player

18 years ago

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cyberB;189671

It wasn't needed, but it happened. What a stroke of luck!

Yes, it was pure luck. There is such a secondary skill! But seriously, let's assume there was some cheating involved and he could control luck, then he definitely wouldn't generate unnecessary luck "for show." Does that make sense? Well, if it happened, should he replay the battle just to avoid being accused of cheating?

In reply to VDV_forever

Kamikaze

18 years ago

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VDV_forever;189660

1. Are you saying that the chance of morale and luck dropping by 100% is determined by an algorithm from the very beginning of the game? I don't believe it.
2. In the first game, this chance of morale and luck dropping can be repeated with a probability of 99%.
3. I can explain in detail how to test this in practice.

1. In the second game, that's exactly how it is; it's one of its few, but significant advantages.
2. In the first game, the chance of morale dropping does follow some kind of pattern (and we have AlexSpl for that :)), but repeating it with 99% probability will be very difficult, almost impossible. Although, this is just my IMHO.
3. Please do!

In reply to Catch

Dirty_Player

18 years ago

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Catch;189675

In Heroes of Might and Magic II, morale and luck are determined solely by the player's actions and are fixed. Therefore, any battle can be replayed based on its description. In Heroes of Might and Magic I, morale and luck are not fixed. So, another clever person could write a program that will also ruin it, just like we are currently seeing with Heroes of Might and Magic III.

I don't understand you; nothing concrete has happened yet, but you've already declared Heroes of Might and Magic III dead... Why?

In reply to Dirty_Player

Catch

18 years ago

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Dirty_Player;189678

I don't understand you. Nothing concrete has happened yet, and you're already writing off the third installment... Why?

I can already see its downfall. And not just me. Believe me, I won't be interested in playing a game where everything is decided by third-party programs.

In reply to Dirty_Player

cyberB

18 years ago

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Dirty_Player;189676

But seriously, let's say,

that even without knowing the mechanics of luck (delays), one could search for the coveted numbers 4.5, 8.5, 12.5 (or similar figures) in the code. And adjust them – by about 80-100%. And that would explain a lot. There are different ways to hack. P.S. And there's no need to prepare a tirade about "you're just making things up!". I'm considering a hypothetical situation and seeing a way to hack. The situation perfectly correlates with the video.

Dirty_Player

18 years ago

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Catch;189679

I can already see its downfall. And not just me. Believe me, I won't be interested in playing a game where everything is decided by external programs.

Who told you that programs will decide everything??? Remember, sir, the Wild Lands 3 tournament that you organized! Could a program or any kind of cheat have brought victory there??? In reality, there aren't that many battles where you need to catch Battle Dice and luck in every round to win!

Added after 12 minutes

cyberB;189680

you can search for the coveted numbers 4.5; 8.5; 12.5 (it seems like these are the numbers) in the code, without knowing about the luck mechanism (delays). And correct them - by about 80-100%. And this explains a lot. You can hack in different ways.

The numbers are approximately similar, but that's not the point! There are really many ways to hack...
There is a video, but that still doesn't prove anything... I agree that the unicorn has become too overpowered, but it does happen... after all, it's a 20% chance...
In the second game, the morale mechanism looks really better! I don't think there's any point in arguing about that anymore...

In reply to Dirty_Player

cyberB

18 years ago

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Dirty_Player;189682

I agree that the unicorn is overpowered, but it's not always the case... after all, there's a 20% chance.

And here we come to the most interesting part. If in the third game the implementation of unit spells follows the same scheme as morale, then this doesn't happen.

Because in that battle, the griffins went first, and there's no delay. The unicorn's counterattack - no delay. So, regardless of the animation speed, the hero version, etc., the griffins always go at the same speed, and the counterattack is also the same (with or without blinding). Exactly the same as with morale.

That's why I tested this situation in all sorts of ways (combined operating systems, hero versions, and executables). And I never had blinding occur. Those who tested it at my request also didn't.

Yes, you can say that "if you're not caught, you're not a thief," that "it's one thing on one machine, another on another." I might even be wrong - if unit spells work on a different scheme. I don't care anymore.

Added 2 minutes later
Yes, I forgot to add. And all this happens against the backdrop of the maxim cultivated here: "If something is theoretically possible, then I'll go into the code and do the same, only faster" (this has also appeared many times in this thread).

In reply to Dirty_Player

Nzol

18 years ago

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Correspondence chess is dead – that’s a fact, but there’s a more interesting pastime now – blitz chess online! Everything has its pros and cons!

I liked one reply to the question of how to avoid using a chess program when playing online. The answer was roughly: "You need to set the time control to no more than 2 seconds per move." :D

And you can also play Heroes online in a computer club, as far as I know, that's what the tech guys do! But offline...

I agree. I wanted to say this in my previous post about this solution. But this is almost like death for my favorite game – it’s a typical form of preservation and is like life after a nuclear explosion.
The internet could have united the Heroes community, but instead, it will lead to a division into Neanderthal groups with a gradual extinction.

P.S. Greetings to you, Sir Banan. It’s a pity that you have returned to our world in this turbulent and troubled time of change. :(
P.P.S. Now I will be paying attention to the tech support, which I have long ignored. But if the guys really clean up such problems as the one we have today, they will have one more supporter in me.

In reply to Dirty_Player

VDV_forever

18 years ago

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Catch;189675

In Heroes of Might and Magic II, morale and luck are determined solely by the player's actions and are fixed. Therefore, any battle can be replayed according to a description. In Heroes of Might and Magic I, morale and luck are not fixed. So, another clever person could write a program that will also eliminate them, similar to what we are currently seeing with Heroes of Might and Magic III.

If the game is running on a Book, the battle can be completely replayed according to the description. Therefore, I repeat once again that in Heroes of Might and Magic I, morale and luck are fixed at 90%.
That is, if, with certain actions of the player, the morale of a monster appears, then I confidently state that with a probability of 100%, you can see this appearance with the same actions, if not the first time, then definitely the third time. Although, I repeat, with a probability of approximately 90% (according to my observations), the appearance of morale and luck is regulated.

IMPORTANT FEATURE! If you repeat exactly the same actions 100 times, then luck or morale cannot appear on another monster, but it may not appear again with a probability of 90%.

Take, for example, the latest colorful and simply amazing description of the final battle from Fireball, in the 7th stage of the "Companionship" tournament. Try to generate morale or luck for a monster that does not have it!;) Although, in the English version, everything may be different:)

So, Heroes of Might and Magic I is the best!;)

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