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In the second part, the battlefield is larger than in the first, and archers shoot with a straight arrow. Therefore, in Heroes 2, both archers and flying units are more effective (compared to ground units) than in all other parts.
Well, what can I say... Here you can combine double-shooting archers and powerful units (druids and trolls), don't forget about centaurs.
Only Elves, Grand Elves, and Rangers shoot twice...
Added 2 minutes ago vbs;23375
Titans > liches > trolls > archmages > druids > elves > archers > halflings > orcs > centaurs I think this is true, especially regarding liches, trolls, and mages... it all depends on the situation.
If we judge it as 1 on 1, there are many questions, as a troll regenerates every turn... And how did Hobbits become better than Orcs??? An Orc or Orc Chieftain is 100% more powerful than an Archer and has a chance to defeat a Ranger...
Added 4 minutes ago AlexeyPank;23424
Trolls were one of the most powerful ranged units - they could also regenerate. Of course, they can't be compared to titans, but I would give them second place. Centaurs are inconvenient as ranged units - they are large, too difficult to cover, and without cover, they die very quickly. Liches are simply amazing. The rest are approximately at the same level for me (not in terms of strength, but in terms of personal assessment).
But what if we pit 1 Barbarian Troll and 1 Titan against each other under equal conditions? Assuming both heroes have 0 attack and 0 defense, neutral luck and morale, no magic, the Titan won't be able to take down the Barbarian Troll with one shot, so the Barbarian Troll recovers every turn and slowly damages the Titan? Interesting...
Added 5 minutes ago Qwerty;24027
I'm a little confused by the 25 hit points of liches. Yes, they have excellent defense - 12, they deal good damage (8-10), attack 7 (sometimes worse), speed is above average (5), however, 25 health combined with a price of 750 somehow... Just one lightning bolt with a magic power of 6 destroys six liches, which is 4,500 gold!!! What do you think about mages and trolls (remember, we are talking specifically about non-upgraded ranged units of level 5)?
Yes, the Troll... nothing to say...
Added 6 minutes ago AlexeyPank;24389
I would like to hear an opinion, is it possible to create an army consisting only of ranged units? After all, titans have no penalty in melee combat, so they can also act as melee units. And trolls have regeneration. But, apparently, only barbarians and wizards can create such an army.
For the sake of maintaining morale, I suggest interesting options: titans + archmages + wartrolls + orc chieftains + hobbits or titans + archmages + greater druids + grand elves + hobbits, only 2 elements, without a morale penalty...
Added 5 minutes ago Inquisitor;45565
Ranged units are powerful, but how do you properly protect them from units that fly across the entire map at once?
Slow them down)
Added 2 minutes ago Inquisitor;46048
Well, those who fly across the entire map usually move before ranged units :confused:
It all depends on the speed, and if the speed is the same, then on the position on the battlefield from top to bottom...
Added 3 minutes ago AlexeyPank;46055
This is generally the weakest point of all ranged units - speed. Even titans are quite slow compared to other high-level units. So, there is always a way to block ranged units. However, this does not work with titans.
Titans are only slower than Phoenixes from level 6 and Champions from level 5, so you put them in the first cell, attack, and move first, even if there are Black Dragons in the first cell... But, if you are attacked, the unit with the same speed as the attacker will move first...
An Orc or Orc Chieftain is definitely stronger than an Archer and has a chance to defeat a Ranger...
Parameters: Orc: 10 hit points, attack 3, defense 4, damage 2-3, speed 2, arrows 8. Archer: 10 hit points, attack 5, defense 3, damage 2-3, speed 2, arrows 12. And the Archer costs a little more, but is still more expensive (150 vs. 140).
But what if you pit 1 Barbarian Troll and 1 Titan against each other under equal conditions? Assuming both heroes have 0 attack and 0 defense, neutral luck and morale, no magic, and the Titan can't one-shot the Barbarian Troll, will the Barbarian Troll heal each turn and slowly chip away at the Titan? Interesting...
And what's so interesting? The Titan moves close to the Troll and calmly defeats him with an attack and a spell (the AI won't be smart enough to skip a turn): in online play, the attacker will have to retreat due to a stalemate, but against the AI, it's a clear victory. In a simple ranged battle, the Troll simply won't have enough shots to kill the Titan. Qwerty;180340
And the Archer costs a little more, but it's more expensive: 9150 versus 140. That's the situation.
Yeah, when playing as a Knight, things are definitely not great if you have to spend that much for the second level.
Colleagues, sorry for interrupting this interesting discussion.
Titan stats: 15-15, damage 20-30, 300 health.
Troll stats: 10-5, damage 5-7, 40 health.
Considering the difference in the titan's attack and the troll's defense (10), the titan's damage becomes 40-60. Therefore, with truly zero-level heroes, the discussion ends with the titan's first attack.
The probability of killing a troll in one hit is 0 (the troll's winning condition), only if the difference between the titan's attack and the troll's defense is no more than 3 (40 = 30 * 1.33), meaning the hero's defense against the troll must be at least 7 more than the hero's attack against the titan. Here's how it works. In this case, the troll will win when controlled by a human player. By retaliating against the titan's attacks and skipping its own turns. Or, if the titan skips its turns, the troll will attack it at the end of the round, receiving a retaliatory hit but immediately recovering.
The cart doesn't play a significant role here. If the difference between attack and defense is 3 or less, the troll will win anyway. If it's more, then over a large number of turns, as the troll attacks the titan, the titan will likely, at least once, deal damage greater than 40. You can test this on my experimental map.
The probability of killing a troll in one hit is 0 (the troll's victory condition) only if the difference between the titan's attack and the troll's defense is no more than 3 (40 = 30 * 1.33), meaning the hero's defense with the troll must be at least 7 higher than the hero's attack with the titan. Here's the thing. In this case, the troll will win when controlled by a human player, by retaliating against the titan's attacks and skipping their own turns. Or, if the titan skips its turns, the troll will attack it at the end of the round, receiving a retaliatory strike but immediately recovering. And if the titan tries to run away, the troll will still manage to catch up, finding moments when the titan can't escape the attack, and eventually win.
The cart isn't playing a significant role here. If the difference between attack and defense is 3 or less, the troll will win anyway. If it's more, then over a large number of turns, during which the troll attacks the titan, the titan will likely, at least once, deal more than 40 damage. You can test this on my experimental map.
The moral of the story is, there needs to be a moral. Never attack a troll with a lone titan; always have at least one hobbit with you.:) Thank you, Brennan, for the detailed analysis of the situation in the context of online play.
Thanks, Brennan, for the wonderful analysis!
In addition, I'd like to say that if any unit (like 1 golem) is added to the Titan (and you can add someone to the troll as well), the situation changes (in the case of not visiting the looted cemetery). My well-known puzzle about the peasant in the Academy :)))
I would also like to add that if any unit is added to the Titan (like 1 golem) (and you can add someone to the troll as well), the situation changes (in the case of not visiting the looted cemetery).
However, yes! 1 iron golem might be enough for the troll to fall in this scenario. But 1 halfling won't work – the troll will defeat him in the first turn.