Posts from Agilist vs Loken

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Topic: Is a healthy lifestyle necessary?
Agilist is trying to prove that it is not necessary.
Loken is trying to prove that it is necessary.
Please behave respectfully and with dignity, as this is just a game :).

Hmm, maybe I just wanted to prove that I don't need it? Or maybe I don't care? :) Well, never mind. ...Of course, it's needed, if you don't want to be like my father at 40 – with a big belly, high blood pressure, and constantly grunting when bending over. If you don't want to shake the table so much when getting up from it and leaning on it that everything spills out of the cups, it's needed if you don't want to suffer from shortness of breath, fatigue, stress, and other migraines associated with an unhealthy lifestyle – minimal movement with maximum food intake. If you don't want to lie on the couch after dinner, panting, almost suffocating, and replace the couch after a year "because it's worn out." Hmm, this is all a personal example (fortunately, not experienced firsthand) – it's a sore subject. I saw in the news today that 30% of senior officers suffer from obesity. But... there are also healthy people. For example, a 50-year-old officer, I saw him, and if it weren't for the gray strands, I would have given him no more than thirty. He was doing handstands. He does 20 pull-ups and, after a minute, does 70 push-ups. No health problems. No blood pressure, no arthritis, nothing. So, do we need a healthy lifestyle? :)

Nah, I don't need it. The state of our health is largely determined by our genes and the environment we were born into. For example, I experienced this firsthand: I went to school and so on. And suddenly, in the 6th grade, my vision started to deteriorate. I didn't watch much TV back then, and I didn't even know what a computer was. What was the reason? It turns out that children born in June-July have a high chance of developing nearsightedness due to the increased sunlight during that time. It was frustrating to talk to people who spent all day in front of a computer and had perfect vision!

minimum movement with maximum food intake

As strange as it may seem, this is actually my lifestyle, but I guess I'm not meant to be fat... I eat what I want and when I want. I've never gained weight, even when I tried. The only problem is that I don't always have room for more food. Is it really interesting to lead a healthy lifestyle: eating a specific dietary meal on a schedule every day, doing various exercises, denying yourself pleasures, and finally eating all sorts of herbal stuff to be healthier than others? And all for what? Is there any point in it? You walk around healthy and with annoyance watch how people who don't think about their health enjoy another portion of greasy potatoes with mayonnaise. In addition, maintaining a healthy lifestyle and denying yourself many things affects your psyche, making a person more constrained and hesitant... People rarely die from a disease of some organ that they have been abusing their entire lives. Most often, they die from nerves. Not exactly from them, but from the consequences of stress, etc. These are the same heart diseases, heart attacks. Smoking ruins health, this is a fact that I am not going to deny. However, inhaling and exhaling smoke relaxes our nerves, thereby possibly delaying death from the consequences of unhealthy nerves. In addition, some people also get aesthetic satisfaction from it.

You are absolutely right on some points, colleague, but are you right on all of them? Does a healthy lifestyle necessarily include hours of exercise every day, swimming in an ice hole, diets, and herbal infusions? Undoubtedly, it does, but this is more of an athlete's lifestyle. For an ordinary, average person, it is not at all necessary to fast or have "unloading days" to be healthy. In my humble opinion, a healthy lifestyle for an ordinary person includes: a morning run combined with exercises, a contrast shower, eating vegetables and fruits along with a regular diet (it may seem banal, a small thing, but many neglect it), moderate consumption of unhealthy foods (excessively fatty foods, for example), and giving up bad habits, in particular, smoking. Alcohol, if consumed not every day, does almost no harm. What will we get as a result? We will get a person who makes some effort to maintain their health, who, unlike many other people, does not suffer from obesity, shortness of breath, pain, or problems with the digestive system; we will get a person who is "always in shape," who will not collapse when bending over to tie their shoelaces or carrying boards to repair their own apartment; in the end, we will get a simply slim person with a beautiful, fit body who can fend off a street thug or seduce a girl; a person who will live longer than those who lead an unhealthy lifestyle. Our hero will not have heart attacks or sciatica. Of course, if you have a fast metabolism, you may not gain weight at all, but is it pleasant to constantly feel the "feeling of illness" on yourself? Like sweat or dirt that cannot be scraped off the body? Is it pleasant to look at thin arms and a large belly? Personally, I don't think so. And finally, a strengthened health means no runny nose, colds, bronchitis, or other ailments in winter or "just after getting out of the shower and standing under a fan."

My opinion remains unchanged. Nowadays, simply exercising and expecting to be healthy is no longer enough because the environment is terrible. If you focus on one thing, the environment will inevitably cause something else to go wrong. It's frustrating when someone who has exercised their whole life and believed that this would lead to a long and happy life, dies from pneumonia. Now, you either take health seriously, or it's better not to waste your time and energy. So, regarding the lifestyle of an athlete... I don't think so; I think it's the lifestyle of someone who takes care of their health, not just engages in meaningless activities. Now, about the healthy lifestyle of an ordinary person. Running and eating fruits and vegetables will be useless if they don't also pay close attention to everything else. As I understand it, such a person should also limit themselves in consuming tasty but unhealthy foods. So, someone does that, and what happens? This unfortunate person won't be able to fully enjoy food, and then they'll limit themselves in other things, and what will be the result? They will start suffering from an inferiority complex because they never get what they want. And what will we get in the end? A half-sick person with an inferiority complex and a strange worldview. A person who doesn't lead a healthy lifestyle can still stand up to a bully or seduce a girl, and besides, they can afford to spend more time with that girl. Will the person described in the post above have heart attacks? Of course! Exhausting workouts and constant self-restriction will take their toll on their mental state. Some people think that nothing depends on the mind, but in reality, it can kill you faster than many other things. Even if you have a slow metabolism, you won't become a muscular athlete just by running fast. Instead, running and realizing that there's no progress will only make the person sad. Flaws, whatever they may be, are perceived as part of oneself, albeit an inconvenient part. But it's still part of you. It's not dirt or sweat; it's you. And finally, I think that by "strengthened health," you meant having a thick coat and a team of doctors nearby, because no one is immune to colds and bronchitis, except perhaps those who never even experience mild cold. A healthy lifestyle seems to be a kind of disease that gives the illusion of health and is therefore even more dangerous.

If you focus on just one thing, something else will suffer due to ecological imbalance. Wouldn't you agree that it's a shame when someone who has been working out their whole life and thought that was a good thing, ends up dying from pneumonia, believing they would live a long and happy life?

Does a healthy lifestyle really involve just one thing? For example, can someone who only works out their left calf their whole life be called an athlete? Of course not.
The very fact of going for runs or eating properly has a positive effect on the whole body.
And a person lying in a hospital with a severe form of obesity/having an attack/etc. will definitely regret wasting their health on tons of burgers and lying in bed in front of the TV.
And to neglect your body, comforting yourself with the thought that "when you break your leg, you won't care about your double chin" – in my opinion, is very, very stupid.
And it will always be this way. No phenomenon in the world has an efficiency of one hundred percent. But that is not an excuse. No one promised it would be easy.

As I understand it, such a person should also limit themselves in consuming tasty but unhealthy food. So what if someone does that? This unfortunate person won't be able to fully enjoy food, and then other things, and what will be the result? They will start suffering from an inferiority complex because they never get as much as they want. And what will we get in the end? A half-sick person with an inferiority complex and a strange worldview.

I never thought that the inability to grab an extra sandwich between lunch and dinner could turn a healthy, thriving person into a small, downtrodden individual with suicidal tendencies;)
As I said, complete refusal or extreme restriction in food is the lot of athletes.
A normal person just needs to not abuse it.
Perhaps you imagine a "healthy person" as necessarily a vegetarian?:)

A person who doesn't live a healthy lifestyle can also fend off a bully or seduce a girl, and besides, he can afford to spend more time with that girl.

Well, yes, a bully might be scared by our antagonist's sixty-pound belly)

Will the person described in the post above have heart attacks? Of course, they will! Exhausting workouts and constant self-restriction will have their effect on the psyche.

Well, firstly, you should once and for all stop using phrases like "exhausting workouts" or "lifting weights," and so on, because, as I repeat, this is the lifestyle of an athlete, and we are talking about a healthy lifestyle for an ordinary person.
Secondly, athletes do not suffer from heart attacks or a ruined psyche. On the contrary, constantly keeping themselves in shape increases a person's self-esteem, especially when they compare themselves to "fat people":-)

I understand that "strengthened health" implies a thick coat and a team of doctors nearby, because no one is immune to colds and bronchitis, except for those who are never even exposed to mild cold.

Please, the benefits of hardening have been known since the time of Our Era.
And you could take the time to familiarize yourself with statistics, which, although harsh, is very accurate, and clearly shows the differences between a healthy and an "unhealthy" lifestyle.

P.S. Not for the record, Agi, what position do you support?)

does a healthy lifestyle really consist of just one thing? for example, if you spend your whole life training your left calf, can you call yourself an athlete? no, of course not.
the mere fact of jogging or proper nutrition has a positive effect on the entire body.
and a person lying in a hospital with severe obesity/a stroke/etc. will certainly regret wasting their health on a ton of burgers and lying on the couch watching TV.
and letting your body go, comforting yourself with the thought that "when you break your leg, you won't care about a double chin" - imho, is very, very stupid.
and it will always be this way. no phenomenon in the world has an efficiency equal to one hundred percent. but that is not an excuse. no one promised it would be easy.

The left calf rules, of course! I won't argue for now that jogging and proper nutrition have a positive effect on the entire body :D. Well, let's assume someone eats "healthy food" and runs. Will that save their lungs from a cold, their eyes from failing vision, or their brain from cancer? I doubt it. If you do eye exercises for 5 minutes every morning, it will certainly have a positive effect on your eyes. But will it be noticeable? No. Therefore, two paths emerge: drop it and stop messing around, or continue, but for more time and more seriously—then you'll feel the improvement. Although, there is a third option—wasting 5 minutes a day on who knows what. It's the same with everything. If we want to protect ourselves from brain cancer, we throw away our mobiles and go somewhere in the middle of nowhere where there are no towers. Otherwise, we have a chance to die of brain cancer with a healthy stomach and buff legs. Now about the person with severe obesity. First—when you're lying in a hospital, you're far from thinking "What a jerk I am! How could I let it get to this!" (I experienced this myself today). Second—would a person leading a healthy lifestyle lying next to an obese patient think "Phew, I'm so great! I ended up here leading a healthy lifestyle, not like this guy on the right!"? If a person wasted their health on hamburgers, they will know it went toward pleasure, rather than toward who-knows-what in the case that a "healthy person" falls ill. Comforting yourself with the words "when you break your leg, you won't care about a double chin" is, IMHO, complete nonsense. However, comforting yourself with the words "I will leave my body healthy" is, IMHO, even bigger nonsense. What difference does it make what our body remains like after our death? Therefore, it's better to squeeze every 100% out of it, enjoy life, and then leave it.

I never thought that the inability to grab an extra sandwich between lunch and dinner could turn a healthy, flourishing person into a small, downtrodden individual with suicidal tendencies
as I already said, total refusal or extremely strict restriction of food is the lot of athletes.
a normal person should simply not overindulge in it.
perhaps you imagine a "healthy person" must necessarily be a vegetarian?

Well, the person eats a sandwich between lunch and dinner. And what desire will arise? "I think I'll go for a run to burn off the extra calories!"? Unlikely. A more likely option—"Great sandwich! I want another one!" And that's the moment of disappointment. The person either restricts themselves in the name of a semi-healthy lifestyle, or gives in and satisfies their desires. Now let's take the lot of athletes. By profession, they must be healthy. That's why they have that opinion. If you don't restrict yourself, sooner or later the food will make itself felt, and other things too, if they aren't looked after.

well yeah, a thug might be scared of our antagonist's sixty-pound belly)

He might be scared of the belly, or he might be scared of a gun or pepper spray...

well, first of all, you should once and for all stop using phrases like "grueling workouts" or "slinging weights" etc., because, I repeat, that is the lifestyle of a bodybuilder athlete, whereas we are discussing simply the healthy lifestyle of an ordinary citizen.
secondly, for some reason, athletes do not suffer from heart attacks or ruined psyches. on the contrary, constantly staying in shape increases a person's self-esteem, especially when comparing themselves to... "fat-stuffers" :)-

Ok, now we'll have grueling diets :D
Athletes' psyches are all OK. Question: how so? They live in a state of constant competition, trying to be the best, so this very desire blocks that weakness in the psyche that could be fatal, although not for everyone. Additionally, athletes usually start sports in childhood, which is constant tempering for the nerves. Their self-esteem is high again because they wouldn't be able to achieve anything otherwise, without it. Furthermore, even athletes with weak nerves "live" in the gym. There they are the best, or among the best, but when they go somewhere not for business, it often looks funny or stupid. Moreover, some athletes do not lead a healthy lifestyle, using various nasties to enhance muscles. They even wrote a little poem:
The bodybuilder walks and flexes,
Sighing as he goes:
"The steroids are running out,
I'm about to collapse!".

I beg you, the benefits of tempering were known even before the Common Era.
and you would do well to familiarize yourself with the statistics, which, although harsh, are very accurate, and clearly show the differences between healthy and "unhealthy" lifestyles.

Tempering is cool, but it cannot guarantee 100% immunity against cold-related diseases.

P.S. A healthy lifestyle rules! Truth be told, my desires are almost completely opposite to it, so I look for the middle ground (that very average citizen).

yeah, no one is immune to cancer.
but being athletic clearly prevents obesity, health problems, and other issues.
and what's better: dodging a falling brick, or getting hit in the collarbone at best, or in the head at worst, and ending up in the hospital? or even in the morgue?
it's a crude analogy, but it perfectly describes the situation.
hmm... well, another one: an Inquisitor who puts on armor before clearing a dungeon is clearly acting more wisely than a poor guy in a shirt... even if no one attacks him.
but what if they do?..
so, I think the answer is obvious.
it's a different matter that diabetes might be safer than a brick to the head, and that's why people don't think about their lives. but when they end up in the hospital, there's a chance to... have a thought like, "maybe I'm doing something wrong? maybe I can avoid this next time?".

What difference does it make what our body will be like after our death? Therefore, it is better to get everything out of it, enjoy life, and then leave it.

indeed, who cares?
let's smoke some weed! or maybe do some coke! we just got some.
...if only it were that simple. it's not about how beautiful the corpse will look in the coffin. it's about the fact that it will be lying there much sooner. and even more so, a person who lived 20 years longer and didn't experience numerous ailments throughout his life, but still didn't grab a sandwich here and there, will be much happier.
besides, happiness in this world is not just about food:)
believe me, there are many ways)
but if you focus on overeating, it won't end well. and "won't end well" will happen pretty quickly.

Besides, even the mentally weak athletes "live" in gyms. There they are the best, or one of the best, but when they go somewhere else, it often looks funny or silly.

we agreed to stop talking about bodybuilders.
and, believe me, the gym for a person who exercises is by no means a "world where only his friends-trainers understand him".
such a shell can be a computer.
but definitely not a gym!
quite the opposite, people who exercise in gyms are people who actively live their lives. as the classic said, "life is perhaps a dream. in that case, we should sleep it brightly".
and the sacramental "we'll rest in the next world".
you keep saying "wasting time, spending whole 5 minutes"... but what's the point? it's self-care. like personal hygiene.
why waste time on a shower? on brushing your teeth? on washing your hands?
all of this, and exercise too, happens during leisure time. and everyone is free to do what they want.
one person will eat burgers, lying in an armchair, and staring at the TV. and the other will do five-minute eye exercises or run for half an hour or an hour.
and we shouldn't forget that many people simply enjoy taking care of themselves. and those who don't like it, don't do it. logical?
and those who don't like it, but still do it, understand that it will be better for them.

Tempering is cool, but it can't guarantee 100% immunity against diseases from the cold.

an internal combustion engine is also good, but it's far from 100% efficient. so why do we use it instead of a steam engine?..
I've said it before, there's no place for 100% of anything in our lives, especially various efficiencies.
but tempering still significantly increases immunity. whether to temper or not is up to each individual.
in any case, I haven't worn a hat this winter, and I haven't had any signs of illness. while everyone around me was just... winding snot on their fist;)
and no one could infect me. that's how it is :P

As much as it pains me, I have to admit defeat. You stumped me. Maybe I'll get my revenge later. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Thank you.
Recently, I've been having similar thoughts, and it was a real pleasure to discuss this:)
Well, it's probably easier to prove the benefits of a "healthy" lifestyle.
So...

Hmm, I'm thinking - why not give others the opportunity to express their opinions on the topic of interest after the debate is over? If there is such a desire. And... maybe later we could somehow indicate the subject of the debate in the topic title? Because the column with names doesn't really encourage non-participants to read it. IMHO.

Hmm, that's a very reasonable opinion, IMHO (IMHO). That's how it will be from now on.