Skip to content

Posts from Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves).

5.0 (1 rating)
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Well done, you explained everything clearly, but I understand that, for example, during a siege, you will simply bombard the enemy with chaos spells? Also, I didn't notice a single word about elemental vision, and that's a very useful skill; during long games, I had an additional 2550 HP of damage from it.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...

Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!

КИНО
In reply to Dracon Малласа
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Dracon Mallasa;166699
Well done, you explained everything well, but I understand that, for example, during a siege, you will simply bombard the enemy with Chaos spells?
Do you even read his posts? )) In short: summoning is a great thing. During a siege, he uses fire elementals and Phoenixes. And also Chaos…

Added after 1 minute
Here's the post: /topic/at/165762/
Правила форума
FAQ по Heroes VI
Форумная мафия
[readonly]
In reply to Amko
User Avatar
Auto-translated
1. Hero encounters most often take place in the field. 2. If the Warlock does manage to reach the enemy Castle, and the enemy locks themselves inside, and the Warlock is unsure whether he can take the Castle, then an economic blockade is simply applied – mines and dwellings are seized until the enemy ventures out into the field. 3. If it comes to a siege, then one archer with damage divided by 4 (penalties for distance and walls) will not solve the problem, as he will simply be defeated or blocked. Magic is what decides. If it's Chaos, then keep hammering the enemy until they realize it's better to go outside the gates. If it's Summoning, then Earthquake, Crystal to destroy towers, Wall of Swords to block archers. A Phoenix that bursts inside and tears everyone apart. (By the way, I've used a trick with the Phoenix and Surprise Attack. You can't teleport it behind the walls without Light, but you can teleport it from behind the wall. That is, the Phoenix attacks, the hero moves, teleports the Phoenix from behind the wall, it moves along the turn order and flies in again and attacks). A huge number of Fire Elementals, etc. And then there's Darkness – Berserkers, Subjugation. The enemy will have to come out, because as long as there is even 1 unit in our army, the Warlock is very dangerous with his spells.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
In reply to Mdance
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Mdance;166667

Now my "anti-ranged" stance is clear?

P.S. Whew... I'm exhausted from writing...


Your position is perfectly understandable.

However, there is one objection.

Let's take week 8.

Yes, the archers are visible, but if you place them further away from the Fury units, the opponent will face a difficult question. Who should they attack? 150-170 archers, risking taking two more hits from 70-110 (depending on the presence of Dwelling) Fury units.
The choice in favor of the Fury units is obvious. This means that the archers will fire at full strength at least twice. And that's at least 900 poison damage + 50% physical damage. And the Mistresses will go invisible.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
In reply to Shogun
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Shogun;166715
The choice in favor of Furies is obvious. This means that the Assassins will fire at full strength at least twice. And that's at least 900 poison damage + 50% physical damage. And the Mistresses will go invisible.

The Assassins will poison 2 stacks, I agree. And the Hunters will poison 1. But they will deal full physical damage. And that will be more than an extra 450 units of poison damage, moreover, spread out over time.
And don't forget - you are going to poison high-level stacks, which means the physical damage will be very low. And with Hunters, you can get to low-level ranged units, and the damage to them will be many times higher. And the enemy will also remain on their territory to be finished off.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
User Avatar
Auto-translated
There is a general approach: use your strengths and ignore your weaknesses. The Academy army will never outshoot Mages, Stronghold, Knight, or Necropolis. So don't even try. Academy will never truly become a shooting faction, but you can suffer greatly in melee and tactics. Why are shooters strong? Because they deal high damage without retaliation, but that doesn't apply to Assassins or Witches, and it's difficult to protect them. If you commit Minotaurs and Hydras to that task, you'll have no one left to fight. Little benefit, plenty of harm. Academy is a hero + melee units with high attack.
The dislike for playing without shooters is a leftover from the times when each of us was just starting to play Heroes; it was easier with shooters. For instance, Death in the fourth game did perfectly fine without any shooters throughout the entire game, and on many maps it was very hard to do anything to them; in the third game, Liches weren't decisive (we don't count the Cloak of the Undead King), etc. Playing without shooters is possible, sometimes even necessary.
In reply to Mdance
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Mdance;166667
Let me try to explain my vision of how to conduct combat with a Necromancer.

I'm tired of repeating that the League's main striking force is not the army, but the Warlock himself. The army should simply provide him with enough casts to win. We have a core – Hydras. But if they charge in a large group, they will be torn to shreds. Therefore, the priority is to eliminate the enemy's main attack stacks and trade them for our own.

1. Furies. Don't be mistaken – nothing can save them; they die first due to their low HP, while, of course, taking an enemy stack with them.
2. Riders. These are suicide units #2. Their task is, on the contrary, to eliminate the most armored and strongest stack, after which the enemy overwhelms them with a crowd.
3. Dragons. They also charge into the enemy ranks and engage them in combat. They are tougher, so they won't be eliminated immediately, which means the enemy won't go to our ranks. Not yet.
4. Minotaurs. They either rush forward too, but more often they wait for the enemy to approach and engage in combat on our territory.
5. Hydras simply stand in defense.

And now, let's get to the main point – Assassins or Hunters?

Let's consider the Shogun scenario. Let's say it's week 8.

Let's assume there are 150 Assassins. This number is approximate, but it will be roughly the same with dwellings, heroes buying units, and possible losses on creeps.

At the same time, there will be 11 units of level 7 that you are going to poison by shooting at them with Assassins, assuming they were placed on week 3, and the Castle was built either on week 3 or week 2. On some maps, it is quite possible to build both the Castle and the level 7 unit on week 2.

Level 7 units have at least 200 HP (we won't consider Ghosts, as they are not poisoned and there are more of them). How much damage will this poisoning do? It won't even take down one unit.

Now, about combat – Assassins shoot, dealing 25% damage (penalty for shooting and distance penalty), and poison the enemy. Hunters, on the other hand, go into invisibility. While a melee is taking place in the enemy ranks, the Assassins shoot again. Again, a quarter of the damage. Hunters either approach to strike distance or attack those who approach our ranks. Don't forget about their speed – 6. The melee attack of Hunters against low-armor enemy units is devastating. Their damage and attack are higher than Assassins, and Warlocks often take Attack, which further increases melee damage. In addition, there will be no response to the attack. The enemy will have to be distracted, which, again, gives time for casts. And Assassins are visible. And to avoid being poisoned, they will be bombarded with magic, rushed by fast units, and shot at from a distance. Therefore, they will not be able to deliver their full melee attack – only a counterattack.
So, consider which will be more useful.
And, accordingly, since we are throwing Hunters into battle (preferably to break through to the enemy's ranged units – they may not withstand even one hit), the time for casts in invisibility is provided to us not by them, but by the Mistresses. They will go into invisibility later and also meet the approaching enemy with an unexpected attack. After that, it will be almost impossible to finish off the Hydras – they won't have enough strength, which means the army has completed its task.

Now, do you understand my "non-ranged" position?

P.S. Ugh... I'm tired of writing...
I completely agree with the non-ranged position; I only take new upgrades. But regarding combat, everything looks great except for one thing – the opponent won't just sit there. If it's a Necromancer, they can summon a Phoenix that is just as good as ours, and Dark Magic doesn't need to be described. If it's a Barbarian, Furies are almost useless because the Fury from the first attack provides good protection, and the Furies are unlikely to survive until the second attack. All races have something that they can use to counter the Necromancer, and in practice, everything may turn out to be very different from theory. And if Tier 4 units were so overpowered, no one would play as other races.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
User Avatar
Auto-translated
_Prizrak_;168247
You can't call them an overpowered faction; every faction has its weaknesses and strengths... but they are very impressive at the start, no matter how you look at it.
They definitely have the best start, but in the long run, they fall behind other factions. IMHO.
Правила форума
FAQ по Heroes VI
Форумная мафия
[readonly]
User Avatar
Auto-translated
but in a long game, they fall far behind other factions.

I also think so, but many believe the opposite... And they provide a lot of arguments about the Pit, about wild damage dealers and magic, etc. Therefore, especially against the Stronghold, they don't look very good in the late game...
:smile02:Клан "Lost Heroes" - Заместитель лидера:smile02:
In reply to _Prizrak_
User Avatar
Auto-translated
For Vaishan: The day before yesterday, I played a hot-seat game against an opponent with a roughly equal Earth of Outcasts faction. I was playing as Yellow, with the Academy, and Letos; he was playing as Blue, with the Stronghold, and Goshak. I forced a battle on him in the 4th week. The result was a decisive victory for Letos.
Порою люди не со зла
Творят настолько черные дела,
Что до таких блистательных идей
Не вдруг дойдет и записной Злодей

Темный адепт клана GODS
User Avatar
Auto-translated
4 weeks is indeed the optimal duration for a battle between a Town Guard and an Orc!
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...

Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!

КИНО
User Avatar
Auto-translated
If you start too late, you might simply not have enough time to build a guild or gather enough creatures.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...

Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!

КИНО
In reply to Dracon Малласа
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Dracon Mallasa;168874
If you go too early, you might not have time to build a guild or gather enough creatures.

But why build a guild and gather creatures?
Leto already has Plague, at the very least. And his Barbarian can't remove it. While the Hunters are in invisibility, half of the Orc army will be wiped out by Plague by the 3rd week. And then you can either finish them off or pay them off and come back with the whole group.
In general, you can visit the Outcasts as early as the 2nd week, but the optimal time is really the 3rd or 4th week.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Why build a guild and accumulate creatures?
Letos already has Plague, at the very least.
There's just not enough Plague, and you can't always rely on Letos.
Чую время пришло и захлопнулась дверь
Ангел пропел и полопалась кожа...
Мы выпили жизнь, но не стали мудрей,
Мы прожили смерть, но не стали моложе...

Агата Кристи
Ты должен быть сильным,
Ты должен уметь сказать: Руки прочь, прочь от меня,
Ты должен быть сильным, иначе зачем тебе быть?!

КИНО

Statistics

Welcome our newest member: Emil