Discussion about Dungeon (Dark Elves). — Dungeon

Mefisto

18 years ago

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In my opinion, the new mounted units are good because the Orcs' Rage ability is effectively countered by them! And for this, the old-grade Minotaurs are also good. But still, the old mounted units seem stronger, but if you can overwhelm them with initiative (for example, with Elves), they won't cause many problems! But if they manage to attack, it will hurt. Mounted units are just as disposable as Harpies!

Vayshan

18 years ago

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Well, I wouldn't say that. What's the HP of the Riders? 60. That's more than any other level 4 unit. But overall, their high speed and powerful ability make it worthwhile to send them alone against the enemy, where they can wreak havoc, because there's no one else to help them (they came alone), not because they're so fearsome. But as a rule, the Riders take down a decent number of high-level monsters with them, so their death isn't in vain.

In reply to Vayshan

Mefisto

18 years ago

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I understand that riders destroy larger units, but if you don't let them spread out, then... In reality, riders are a formidable unit (that's why they are targeted first), because after them, there are significant losses. In a quick game, I think it's better to get a new upgrade for the riders, IMHO. :smile04:

Alucard

18 years ago

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New upgrade for riders? I think the new upgrade is quite weak; sacrificing almost full armor for an attack that slows movement isn't worth it. I can barely imagine when this upgrade would actually be useful, although if all units are lined up, then it's okay))). By the way, I've always wanted them to add the ability to plan a route during battle in Heroes. Otherwise, they all move like a locomotive, paying no attention to fire walls or mines.

Amko

18 years ago

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Then the Mines and Wall of Fire become significantly weaker. As a Warlock, I say – we don't need that kind of "luck" =)

Gunslinger

18 years ago

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I want to share my opinion about Riders and their upgrades. The old upgrade can be blocked by an enemy creature, and therefore, they won't be able to move, and their initiative isn't that high either. But the new upgrade for Riders, in skilled hands, turns into a formidable weapon, and they have more initiative. In short, the alternate upgrade shouldn't be dismissed. IMHO.

LuckySkulL

18 years ago

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2Shaddar, do you remember when we played? Do you remember how 53 riders (out of 123, with 70 killed by hidden archers when the "sworn enemy" ability triggered) killed 23 upgraded unicorns without any luck, and after moving only 3 squares! I'm saying that you can position the riders so that they scatter over 2-3 squares, and that already hurts! If you give the riders an initiative of at least 1 higher (I mean the standard one), then many will have the same problem with this unit. IMHO.
Regarding the new units, I can say that they looked good against the Necropolis, as did the new furies. I don't know how they perform in a quick game; I rarely took them, i.e., I experimented, but I prefer to take the old ones. IMHO.
P.S. I will experiment with the new upgrade!

Dracon Малласа

18 years ago

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Regarding the new units, I can say that they looked good against the Necropolis faction, as did the new Fury units. I'm not sure how they perform in quick matches; I rarely used them, meaning I didn't experiment much, but I prefer to use the old ones! IMHO.

I still prefer the new Fury units. They have immunity to weakness and much more health!

Vayshan

18 years ago

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But they have 2 less, and that's a significant drawback... Although, if the opponent isn't too aggressive and there are many Furies, I also transform them into Megeras.

Gunslinger

18 years ago

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2Shaddar, do you remember when we played? Do you remember how 53 riders (out of 123, 70 of whom were killed by hidden archers when the "sworn enemy" ability triggered) killed 23 upgraded unicorns (new tier) without any luck and after moving only 3 squares!

Yeah... that's true, but there's also my mistake here, that I didn't take the speed aura, and then the riders wouldn't even have moved (P.S.: but this didn't affect the outcome of the battle). Well, if you took a specific example of a game against the Coalition, then: IMHO - any upgrade for riders is ineffective if your opponent (my favorite) is Wingael with a speed aura, and in general, it's very difficult to use riders against an army with high initiative and speed... it's enough to block them so they don't scatter!

Regarding the Furies. An upgraded Fury against the Necropolis clearly rules: since the initiative is lower, the "suggestion" spell is less effective on them; immunity to weakening is also good; they have a lot of HP for a second-tier unit; (the stronger the units of the Necropolis are, the more magic the Warlock will cast on everyone). This is all, of course, IMHO...

LuckySkulL

18 years ago

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If you think that Wingard is all against TE, then you are deeply mistaken: - The Riders can be positioned so that they still scatter; - Even if you try to completely block them, it is impossible! - I will position them so that by blocking them with dryads, guys, unicorns, and dragons, they will still reach either the dragons, unicorns, or trees! (I.E., they will reach those FOR WHOM THEY ARE INTENDED) - Even if you throw all your troops at them to destroy them, I will still be at an advantage! (because by destroying them - and the Riders are not that weak in terms of XP - you are not destroying other units, and they are also strong and have enough strength to destroy your army, and my hero will help!) - And there is no need to say that they have low initiative; I repeat - if you add 1 initiative to them, many will have the same problem.

Gunslinger

18 years ago

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If you think that Wingael is all you need against the Elves, you are deeply mistaken:
- The Riders can be positioned so that they will still spread out;
- Even if you try to completely block them, it's impossible!
- I will position them so that, even if you block them with Dryads, guys, Unicorns, and Dragons, they will still reach either the Dragons, Unicorns, or Trees! (I.e., they will reach the units they are meant to target)
- Even if you throw all your troops at them to destroy them, I will still come out on top! (Because by destroying them – and the Riders aren't that weak in terms of XP – you aren't destroying other units, and they are also strong and have enough strength to crush your army, and my hero will help too!)
- And don't say that they have low initiative; I repeat, if you give them +1 initiative, many will have the same problem.

Don't you think you forgot to mention their arch-enemy and the bonuses from luck? I have plenty of archers, and if they don't kill them, the Unicorns, Dragons, Wind Dancers, or Druids will finish them off. Regarding the positioning of the Riders: it's impossible for none of the units I mentioned to reach them, and there's no benefit to hiding the Riders behind obstacles. Even if Altgreyd was given +1 initiative, that's good, but Wingael solves this problem with his ability (but again, the Elves have an artifact shop, and something that increases initiative might drop there).

LuckySkulL

18 years ago

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You need to find the enemy, manage to position your units, and I repeat, focus your attacks on the riders; other units will survive! Don't forget about your hero with the "Town Portal" skill! Don't overestimate Winghael!
P.S. Shaddar, read more carefully!
- I didn't mean that no one will reach your riders, but that it's very difficult to block them so they don't scatter! And I wasn't talking about hiding the riders!
- As for initiative, I was referring to an old guide! (about the riders)

Gunslinger

18 years ago

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I think I read your posts very carefully! If you meant something else, please express your thoughts in a way that everyone can understand. Wingael for Sylvan (IMHO) is the best choice against Dungeon (not in all cases, of course)! And please specify the game mode you're talking about (quick game or long game) so that later there won't be any "I didn't mean that...". And in my previous post, I explained everything about the Riders, including the alt-up. So I suggest you pay closer attention. Sorry for the off-topic, but I couldn't resist! P.S.: If you don't like my arguments, please send your criticism in a private message.

In reply to Mdance

Julyanna

18 years ago

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Mdance;152339

Could you elaborate? Which specific alt-upgrades are unnecessary?
I can definitely say that Swift Riders are unnecessary. Their ability can't compete with the armor-ignoring ability from the charge.
For the rest of the alt-upgrades, there might still be a use for them.

I, on the contrary, take them. I think that Night Hags and Assassins are unnecessary, I'm not sure about the Acid Hydra, sometimes I take the old one, sometimes the new one, Red Dragons also seem unnecessary, that's all for now.

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