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Posts from Tactics for the Swamp (Fortress). Auto-translated

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#304
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pavleague;151242
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Generally speaking, everything is correct, but there are a lot of ifs in your post.

By the way, taking a Dragon Utopia in week 2 is a utopia :-)
Even if it's the simplest one. (well, in theory, of course, everything is possible, but in practice it's hardly feasible)
If you get lucky in week 4, you can put in some effort — earlier is unlikely.


Allow me to answer your question with a song:
Forrest;132894
Forrest (red, Necropolis, Galthran) def vbn (Rampart, Kyrre), TE, 2sm4d, 1-3-2

Interesting game! and especially the battle!!

The opponent took Rampart, I took Necro (just like the hogs! even though there's no necromancy, but Galthran is an analog of Shakti.)

I took all the restarts. Generated a simple template, and slow roads.
Started playing. I find external dwellings: 3 skeleton ones in the first week and one peasant (Horde of Corel Griffins) — I take all of them. I reach level 7. Liches in the citadel. Could have tried for the consa too but why bother when I have skeletons :p

Plan is banal. Take the Utopia as soon as I reach it (on the respawn) and rush to Kyrre. The respawn was huge, which slowed everything down a bit. I take the Utopia on 1-2-4, tier 3. It didn't give much. Tome of Earth, Plate, and Dragonbone Breastplate. I'm at 13-10-5-3. I hide the Plate — not enough knowledge. Monere, meanwhile, with an angel, knocks out tons of gold and secondary skills. Buys a host-dragoon from the mercenaries. Finds the Griffin Conservatory trong. (Took the tier 2 one immediately on the second week)
I FINALLY FIND THE ГО. One Azure. (3 days away with expert logistics from my home :) ) I kill it on 1-3-1, take a look and see where Kyrre is sitting. I check his army. Hm.. quite a bit — 15 unicorns for example. I decided to replenish mana — the well is visible. Meanwhile, bring 21 vamps, an angel, and a dragoon from Monere. If they get repelled, plan B is to take the conservatory with vamps and from the treasury that Monere found.
But Kyrre apparently couldn't stand it and attacked himself.
Kyrre 6-5-6-1 (10) 15 unicorns, 41 grand elves, 25 pegasi, 15 dendroids, 41 war centaurs, 4 re griffins. 3 Green Dragons.
Galthran 13-10-5-5(29) 205 war skeletons, 13 liches, 23+23 witch greys. 4 re horses, 3 dragons, an angel. Expert offense, armor, earth. That's what decided it.

Kyrre expert tactics (has advanced), cements the elves. I wait with angels, he waits with greens. I cast Slow on everyone. The lich pile shoots. The witches drain mana from Kyrre just for mass shield.
In the end, my army under shield and skin approached and piled on turn 1. I managed to win in round 7. GG. (survived: 36 witches, an angel, a dragoon, 4 re horses, 141 skeletons, and 9 liches)
Thanks for the game 1-0

and it seems this is not such a unique case...... regarding the Utopia at least...
In reply to pavleague
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#305
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If there are many Hives
On a random map, there is usually always a Hive, you just need to look carefully ;)
if you found sulfur
You don't need that much of it, and if not hydras, then it's almost always possible to build all but hydras in the first week, if not in Castle, then at least in Stronghold.
And what if Rampart found crystal deposits and managed to build golden dragons by the end of the second week.
Exactly, comparing the value of structures between the Swamp and Rampart isn't quite right, because Rampart is one of the expensive towns, unlike the Swamp.
Nothing will be left of the Swamp, not a trace.
That's a debatable statement:)
By the way, taking a Dragon Utopia in week 2 is a utopia :-)
Even if it's the easiest one. (well, in theory, of course, anything is possible, but in practice it's hardly feasible)
If you're lucky, in week 4 you can give it a try — earlier is unlikely.
I have never taken a Dragon Utopia in the second week, but strong players do it, and without much trouble. I haven't reached that level yet, but I can assure you that I managed it in the third week, and without much difficulty.
but Swamp dwellers are distinguished by weak magic.
Qwerty wrote above that:
Magic? What's wrong with a spellbook from a Dragon Utopia? For example, Earth or Air... Pandora's Boxes can also be dug up.
Personally, lately when playing as Swamp with Tazar, I usually went with a book of Fire and decent magic parameters.
Well, I don't know, I rarely play on random maps and I don't play on 160, only on 200.
If you're already comparing with Rampart, then on 200% difficulty it's much harder to develop it than the Swamp.
And only on L and XL maps. There, Swamp absolutely definitely DOES NOT RULE
Everything I said above assumes playing on 160 and on an L-sized map with an underground ;)
and Necropolis, by the way, isn't exactly the strongest either (unless of course you found the Cloak of the Undead King).
Actually, on L and XL maps, Necropolis is even scarier, and defeating it is very, very difficult if you don't find it within the first 2-3 weeks.
In reply to TMNT
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#306
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By the way, taking a Dragon Utopia in week 2 is a utopia :-)
Even if it's the easiest one. (Well, in theory, of course, everything is possible, but in practice it's hardly feasible)
If you get lucky in week 4, you can sweat a bit - earlier is unlikely.
Speaking of L, XL random on SoD 3.2, by week 4 Dragon Utopias are easily taken by any castle. In week 3, things are worse, but it's still realistic, though Fortress stands out positively and has few problems. In week 2, a Dragon Utopia with 3-4 Azure Dragons is easily taken by a Necromancer, but only by them, who on average have around 700 skeletons by day 12-13. Fortress can only manage with substantial luck.
And only on L and XL maps. There, Fortress absolutely DOES NOT RULE, and Necros are also, by the way, not exactly the strongest (if, of course, they haven't found the Cloak of the Undead King).
When playing against equal opponents, a Necro versus another castle will win in 9 cases out of 10, at the very least.
Besides, colored dragons aren't really that scary for Fortress - Manticores feel an unnatural attraction to them, almost indecently so...
In my opinion, Fortress has a different problem - few high-speed units.
Exactly. Also, playing Fortress is difficult without experience; not seeing powerful shooters, many believe that serious losses are unavoidable and give up. But the Lizardmen are far from a useless unit.
In reply to Fireball
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#307
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Defending a castle against the Swamp is a pleasure – 1 weak archer + 2 flying units; the snakes are too weak, even though they are fast.
You eliminate the entire group of wyverns and then calmly shoot down the creatures behind the walls.

Maybe it's already been said, but I'll mention that on the third floor of the guild in the Swamp, they ALWAYS give you a teleport spell!!! That's ONE!

The secondary skill, BALLISTICS, hasn't been canceled yet! That's TWO!

And in general, pavleague, read the reports from online games! I myself thought a lot of things before reading some of them. After reading the reports and playing several online games with strong opponents, I realized that my knowledge leaves much to be desired, although before I had internet, I thought I understood this game very well! But it turned out to be a dark forest... :smile30: Conclusion: there is always something to learn! That's THREE!
In reply to TMNT
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#308
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Yes... I'm playing as the swamp faction in the "Favorites to Battle" tournament. Wow - what these beasts can do on random! :) Simply put, if the external dwellings also happen to be favorable - gorgons, for example - then reaching Dragon Utopia by the end of the 2nd week is more than realistic (on minimum map size, naturally...). Plus, having enough money for redemption (which isn't hard to get as swamp - crypts are taken on the 1st day without any issues) and so on...
Если тебе не везёт в жизни, - играй в какую-нибудь другую игру:rolleyes:
Лидер клана "Из многих единое"

Приключения – это сплошные неприятности, только про них почему-то потом интересно вспоминать...
In reply to TMNT
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#309
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TMNT;141931

Many people say that the Swamp faction is bad and useless in Heroes. They claim that the Swamp faction has no advantages over other factions.
People often say... nonsense. I'm ready to play against anyone who thinks the Swamp faction is terrible, and I'll play as the Swamp faction:smile13:
В. Уэйтс©
Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.
In reply to Qwerty
#310
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Qwerty;151249
Well, third-level magic can be managed somehow in general - wisdom will still be given at level 6...
Rampart is a good castle, no one disputes that, but I haven't seen many gold dragons on the second week, and the green fighters are mediocre, wouldn't you agree...
Besides, colored dragons aren't actually that scary to the swamp - gorgons feel an unnatural attraction to them, even to an indecent degree...
They can manage third level, but there is little point in teleport without water magic, and the probability of getting it for the swamp is below average.
The green fighters are useless, I agree, they must be used carefully so as not to lose them before upgrade, but on the other hand, there's someone to fight among the lower-level units, and who said I would supply dragons for gorgons - no way in hell.

to Vanechka: To be honest, I understood very little from your message :) , I'm new to the forum and haven't gotten the hang of the slang yet. It's especially murky how the Dragon Utopia was taken. By the way, not all Dragon Utopias are the same. 1-2-5-8 and 5-6-7-8 are a HUGE difference.

Dirty_Player;151287
Maybe it's already been said, but I'll say that in the Swamp on the third floor of the guild they ALWAYS give teleport!!! That's ONE!

No one has canceled the secondary skill BALLISTICS yet! That's TWO!

And in general, pavleague, read the reports of online games! I thought a lot of things myself until I read some stuff. After reading reports and playing several online games with strong opponents, I realized that my knowledge leaves much to be desired, although before I had internet I thought I understood this game very well! But it turned out to be a total mystery... :smile30: Conclusion: there is always something to learn! That's THREE!

I will also repeat myself - teleport gives little without water magic, which the swampers are far from certain to have.
Ballistics - yes, an essential skill for the swamp, but it's unlikely they will quickly get an expert in it; by that time the opponent can probably become a good mage and start slowing, blinding, or casting berserk on the swampers.

I generally don't harbor any illusions about my skills :D .
They are quite good for crushing the computer wherever and however I want, but surely weak against a good online player. And I would be grateful for links to reports of online games, I couldn't find any :-(

In the end, I'll repeat myself again :-).
I'm not saying that SWAMP-SUCKS.
At the beginning of the game it doesn't suck at all - which is why in online play where everything is decided quickly it is very strong. But in a prolonged game it begins to lose its positions.
In reply to TMNT
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#311
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Well, this was an excerpt from online battle reports.
Dragon Utopia had 4 gold dragons and 3 black ones. Anyway, here is the description:
Forrest;133157
Thanks!
Only there were 4 Gold Dragons :) And 3 Black
Dragon Utopia took 349 skeletons, 32 zombies, and 1-//s. Hero was 8-5-5-(4 mana) :) but expert off and diff. I simply calculated that GD would deal up to 180 (and with shield 120) and there would be no problems at all. The drags predictably piled onto the zombies. With lucky skeleton hits, losses there would have been 50-70.
Just advance shield on skeletons. Was very unlucky, skeletons dealt near-minimum damage. Like 400-1200 but they dealt 500. And that happened a couple of times. In the end, I lost 170 skeletons. :(
Again - I found all this on the forum...
In reply to Dirty_Player
#312
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Dirty_Player;151287
Maybe it's already been mentioned, but I'll say that in the Swamp, on the third floor of the Guild, they ALWAYS give a teleport!

By the way, if you believe PhysMig, the probability of a teleport dropping in the Swamp is 10% per slot. This is slightly higher than for other locations, but far from 100%.
In reply to pavleague
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#313
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pavleague;151458
By the way, according to PhysMig, the probability of a teleport appearing in the swamp is 10% per slot. This is slightly higher than for other locations, but far from 100%.
Does this argument make sense?
I know what a Tier 20 BTR (Tazar) is – it has insane defense and very high potential for capturing units... and it's there that you can find the Tome of Mastery and use any skill from it without Wisdom. I saw Maestro Horn (in person) playing with the Swamp... After that, it's hard to say that the Swamp is weaker than the Rampart:D
It's just not very challenging to fight with Grand Elves paired with Centaurs, unlike a combination of Gnolls + Lizards + single Snake units (the effect is the same, but the battle is longer and more skillful). And what about a Bronze with 7 Basilisks (once I got 11)? Of course, you can't underestimate the benefits of the Swamp on day 2 – undeniable advantages in defense and magical abilities, as qwerty said, for those who like cows:smile08: I could come up with more, but this is enough:p
В. Уэйтс©
Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.
In reply to TMNT
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#314
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Of course, any spell in any faction might not be available.
It's just that there's a certain chance to get that spell elsewhere. Books, scrolls, pandoras, stalls...
By the way, on tactics, under the Hydra's acceleration, they often make a "cabbage salad."
And I highly recommend trying to get canned goods with Hydras. When I first saw what happens there, I was surprised, then I laughed a lot.
By the way, if you're talking about playing on 200% difficulty, I'll answer that because I played a bit on that difficulty. I almost always got Wyverns on the first week on 200%. Compared to the other castles (except for Barbarians), this is a significant advantage, isn't it? This is without restarts, I should note, and without choosing a starting hero!

Орден Фениксахаризматический :) лидер
In reply to TMNT
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#315
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For earthquake, it's 50%. Another 10% each for teleport and antimagic. All the remaining ten spells are 2-4%....
So, yes, it's not 100%, but it's also not "slightly" higher than the others. To assume that the probability of teleport appearing in at least one of the slots is 30% is incorrect. Just for clarification.
In reply to TMNT
#316
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ewgeniy;151463
Does this argument make sense?.....
Well, of course, you can't underestimate the Wyverns on the 2nd day....

no, I don't think it does anymore :-)

It's not the first time I've seen something about Wyverns on the 2nd DAY!?!
Where did that come from? If there are no buildings yet, and for that you need Gnolls and Lizards, but there's no money, and of the money-making buildings, there's only the Village.
Qwerty;151465
By the way, if you're talking about playing on 200%, I'll answer that, because I've played a bit on that difficulty. I almost always get Wyverns on the first week. Compared to other castles (except for the Barbarians), this is a significant advantage, isn't it? I should note that this is without restarts and without choosing a starting hero!

Yes, you can get Wyverns on the first week, but it all depends on certain conditions. Getting Wyverns on the first week can lead to a significant financial crisis if there is a lack of resources on the map. If there are enough resources, why not.

to Vanechka:

Yeah, I was going to write about 30% at first, but then I remembered that the probability is not calculated by simple addition :-)
In reply to pavleague
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#317
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Dear pavleague, in order not to continue this pointless argument, I suggest you read the reports of online battles here, and perhaps you will change your opinion about this unique Castle ;). If you want to try your hand and learn from strong players, as well as get into this Player Rating for online HW, then you can leave reports of your games in the same thread, which will definitely be taken into account. By the way, for information, during the current season, including November last year, according to the reports, there were 62 games played with Swamp, in 35 of which Swamp won. This is approximately 56% wins and accordingly 44% losses. This data cannot possibly indicate that Swamp is a weak Castle :). And it doesn't matter what percentage of teleport scrolls drop in the guild :rolleyes:. If there is an opportunity to play online, I can prove it :p
In reply to invisible
#318
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invisible;151479
Dear pavleague, in order not to continue this pointless discussion, I suggest you read the reports of online battles here, and perhaps you will change your opinion about this unique Castle ;) . If you want to try your hand and learn from strong players, as well as get into this Player Rating for HW online, then you can leave reports of your games in the same topic, which will definitely be taken into account.
By the way, for information, during the current season, including November last year, according to the reports, there were 62 games played with Swamp, in 35 of which Swamp won. This is approximately 56% wins and accordingly 44% losses. This information cannot possibly indicate that Swamp is a weak Castle :) .
And it doesn't matter what percentage of teleportation appears in the guild :rolleyes:. If there is an opportunity to play online, I can prove it :p

Thank you, I will definitely read them.
It’s stupid to jump into online Tournaments with checkers "barely prepared" :smile13: without preparation - you need to understand the specifics first. (At least, as far as I understand, the game is played at 160%, not 200%, which significantly changes the tactics of the beginning of the game)

I might even reconsider my attitude towards Fortress, but fundamentally unlikely :-)
I see their pros and cons quite clearly; I just need to learn how to use them correctly :)