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Tournament Edition / TE
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Offline Armagedda
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#47
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A few thoughts regarding the subject from someone who has some connection to the popularization of TE :). Firstly, it will not be possible to turn TE into SoD with a TE interface because the exe has been modified. So you'll have to at least accept that changes such as these will remain (quote from the TE manual):
- Some "peeking" during another player's turn, which was possible in network play, has been disabled. To achieve this, the ”Next Hero” button had to be disabled, so it currently does not work in TE.
- The Altar of Sacrifice is now insensitive to the type of visiting hero; all heroes can sacrifice both artifacts and troops.
- In the Skeleton Transformer, cavalry and unicorns (non-upgraded!) can additionally be converted into black knights.
- With expert summoning of water and air elementals, their number has been increased to 5*Hero_SP.
Secondly, I agree with the opinion that such a "castration" of TE will lead not to unity, but to an even greater division of the same Community. Those who want to switch to TE are switching. Fans of SoD continue to play it.
Thirdly, I want to share my vision of the reasons why people do not want to play TE and prefer SoD. In reality, there aren't that many.
1. Simple laziness. The main and most common reason. Too lazy to figure it out, too lazy to install it, etc. As a rule, nothing can be done about this :).
2. Bruised ego :). Like, who are they to ruin such a great game? And not only did they ruin it, but they didn't ask ME personally :). How is that possible, slow on the second level? By what right? :) Since I wasn't asked when they were reworking it, I won same play it.

Moreover, often judgments about TE are expressed by people who have played against the computer a maximum of one and a half times. And then they discuss balance and so on.

By the way, for those who cannot understand what motivates the TE developers and what priorities they maintain during development, I suggest reading at least the manual, not to mention the official game forum... Yes, yes, Nagan, that's for you :). And your reasoning about Chaosleague, Antala, chaospatch was amusing :). The chaospatch, by the way, completely removed necromancy from the game. By the time TE started gaining momentum, chaosleague had already practically collapsed. Nevertheless, players like Stinger, DVStranger, and Andre enjoy playing TE.
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Offline Nagan-4
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#48
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2 Armagedda. If I made you laugh, then my writing wasn't in vain. You also made me laugh with your comment about Andre, who enjoys playing in TE. In short, we're even. P.S. Sorry for writing this; the first post in the topic said not to resort to personal attacks. I'm done posting in this thread.
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Offline Armagedda
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#49
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Nagan-4;149182
2 Armagedda. If I amused you, then I wrote it for a reason. You also amused me with the phrase about Andre, who enjoys playing in THAT game. In short, we're even. P.S. Sorry for writing this; the first post in the topic said not to resort to personal attacks. I'm done posting in this thread.

Okay, let's assume that Andre plays without enjoyment, just forcing himself to do it :). We amused each other, and that's great; it's better than irritating each other.
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Offline Dreamcatcher
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#50
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Armagedda;149168
So, we'll have to at least accept that changes like these will remain (quote from the TE manual):
- Some "peeking" during an opponent's turn, which was possible in multiplayer, has been disabled. To achieve this, the "Next Hero" button had to be disabled, so it doesn't work in TE yet.
- The Altar of Sacrifice is now insensitive to the type of visiting hero; all heroes can sacrifice both artifacts and troops.
- In the Skeleton Transformer, cavalry and unicorns (ungifted ones!) can now be additionally transformed into black knights.
- When summoning water and air elementals at the expert level, their number has been increased to 5 * Hero's SP.

Thank you for highlighting these features that I forgot to mention. But on the other hand, it's actually a good thing that the game is rid of the peeking bug. And what is the "Next Hero" button? I really don't know :eek: And I manage perfectly well without it :)
The other features are from the category of very rare online situations; if you don't focus on them, no one will pay attention to them if they happen in the game. And the improved transformer can simply be banned. Or, we could have not mentioned it, and no one would have known :D
http://dreamcatcher.metroland.ru/
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Offline Gynnar
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#51
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Nagan-4;148795
The main question that no one from the TE community has given me an answer to is: what exactly is TE? Is it truly the ideological successor to SoD, more advanced and improved, or is it a similar but completely different game?
So far, I haven't heard anything concrete. For now, I've formed the opinion that sometimes it's beneficial to present TE as the ideological successor, and sometimes as a completely new game. Something like "...a little bit man, a little bit woman...".

I read player reports on TE and constantly hear complaints about this very issue.


Personally, I don't really care about the outcome; I play for relaxation. But in the days of Chaos, Joker, Bishop, Mega Dog, Phil, and many others, it was a little different. And I didn't hear these wonderful players being thrilled about TE.



TE is the ideological successor to SoD, more improved and advanced in terms of balance and, most importantly, gameplay convenience, and the absence of many prohibitions and restrictions, and the resulting loss of a number of heroes and tactics...

But I heard from Chaos, Joker, Mega Dog, Phil, and many others enthusiastic exclamations about TE, when I saw and talked to them in Kingisepp last year (and Mega Dog - when he came and played with me in Alaska, on TE, by the way...), the only thing is that each of them individually didn't like some aspects of TE - some didn't like the experience, some didn't like the bank, some didn't like taxes, but the global changes - a much faster and more convenient multiplayer game, balance in the game, and the removal of restrictions on most things - everyone was very happy about this (the problem with these strong players from Moscow is different, they have all switched to poker and now hardly play Heroes at all, neither SoD nor TE)

As for the legendary Antal, a multiple-time world champion in ToH, what's the problem with talking to him? He's almost always online during the day. Antal was one of the first to recognize TE, but again, he recently got married, and because of that, he stopped playing, although he still wants to, he says.

And the Championship, in which I also played for some time before TE, is called the "father of TE" because it already implemented the idea of not banning or prohibiting the leveling of certain heroes, and thus hindering the game - but simply changing their properties, and it was also there that the necropatch was introduced...

Now, what would I keep from SoD and what would I remove... Considering that I am a terrible conservative, and I played TE with even more terrible conservatives (and I continue to play), here's how it was for us:


1) Fast transfers and division of armies and artifacts with one button, buying all troops were kept.

2) Scrolls were replaced with gold, healing fountains and cartographers - with dwelling places of fairy dragons.

3) All heroes are allowed, i.e., the magic or specialty of the prohibited ones is changed (and with diplomacy, troops do not join).

4) The most important thing for us (since we all had terrible slowdowns in the game) is the introduction of chess clocks; the game really became much faster after that, this is extremely important (and disabling mana consumption in combat during fast battles, since fast battles were often used in the late game (why fight normally with a pack of angels, for example, with large parameters, when almost everything is defeated without losses and so in fast battles, and this saves a lot of time (in SoD, fast battles were impossible, since the stupid computer spends all the mana in battles that are carried out without losses without using mana).


Everything else was disabled and was as in SoD (i.e., the bank, experience, guild restructuring, and all other additions were without this).

I also think that for starters, it is necessary to leave the magic in the previous elements and remove the hero classes when they gain certain skills. Why? Just because the main thing that prevents the transition from SoD to TE, despite all the advantages, is the laziness to read at least the manual and the laziness to figure out the installation (although this is not difficult at all, even for me, who is very far from computers, except for playing games...).

Therefore, for starters, after installing TE, the player should not have to read anything at all, so that he can simply sit down and start playing, and everything should be as in his familiar SoD, but with the convenience of transferring and dividing armies with one button and time ticking in the turn and in battles, as in TE...

The same applies to installation and setting options - the player should not have to read the manual to install TE, even if it is simple, he should just click the "download" button, and that's it, nothing else should be required of him, and after downloading, click on the shortcut and start playing... And also, it is important that in the finished game, all the checkboxes are already checked where they need to be, so that the game is the same as SoD, with the exception of the four points that I mentioned above, so that again, the player can simply sit down and start playing, and not worry about where to put a checkbox to disable the bank and experience, for example, and the game is the same as the usual SoD...
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Offline AndreyALN
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#52
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Basically, you don't even need to stress about it, I have everything))) I long ago made settings for the die-hard SoD lovers and tournaments were held using them and everyone was satisfied; I helped some people install TE and didn't refuse anyone, so if anything, hit me up on ICQ or PM. Also, the skeleton transformer is disabled in the same ini
Regarding the magic transfer, it's already been explained: 1 to strengthen those schools that basically no one levels up, 2 because there is restructuring in TE which apparently no one asked about—restructuring the first one is cheaper, meaning it's easy to get both slow and fast cheaply. And no one took Solmir' same specialty; he was simply given a different spell at the start. And besides, why leave it if you always ban him anyway)) Next, Armageddon—I forgot the most favorite and controversial thing, the logistics players' tool and corresponding artifacts, and actually artifacts were forgotten entirely)))
There are also gates for Inferno and changed summons for Naga, Bynk, and some others, but I don't remember exactly, I need to check the manual

Added after 19 minutes
and you can set the chess clock however you like:
1 240 (=4min.)
2 240 (=4min.)
and enable the option to stop time during battle
exactly like your SoD, only the clock is always visible))
and also, you can actually trade by color there by transferring money on the first day
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Offline ewgeniy
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#53
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Gynnar;149267
TE is the ideological successor to SoD, improved and more advanced in terms of balance and, most importantly, ease of play, and the absence of many prohibitions and restrictions, and the resulting loss of a number of heroes and tactics...
Ahem... Gynnar, please don't take offense – this is about the possibility of creating SoD with the TE interface.
We've already heard that TE is better than SoD, and that you should play it. Maybe there aren't many of us lazy people who just ride around on a horse with a mug of beer, but TE doesn't appeal to me personally – I play SoD and Platinum,
although I wouldn't mind playing TE. And also in WoG and everything else that I'm not unfamiliar with. But if the conversation is about preference, then I want a hybrid of SoD and TE.
There's probably no point in arguing here – the easiest thing to do is to make all the new features OPTIONAL, then there will be no reason to play SoD when there is such a hybrid.
В. Уэйтс©
Но поскольку я нищий,
у меня лишь есть мечты.
Я разостлал свои мечты пред вашими ногами.
Ступайте бережно, ибо вы ступаете по моим мечтам.

временно ушел с форума, переодически заглядываю. кому нужен пишите в скайп ewgeniy1985. в аське 384385000 очень редко.
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Offline Loi
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#54
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Make THE, completely rolling it back to SoD, leaving only the interface, and the rest will gradually be implemented on its own later.
I agree in essence. This is the most correct implementation policy.

I will also add my opinion (perhaps it will be useful):
  1. All interface changes (for convenience) are unconditionally welcome; there is no matter for discussion.
  2. The Bank, as something that fundamentally changes the development strategy—if you will, the game itself—should be removed. I'm not saying the bank is bad, I'm saying it's different. :)
  3. Game experience—perhaps leave it (I emphasize: perhaps!). By intuitive feel of the game, experience fits very well into the balance; it doesn't change it, but rather makes it higher quality, so to speak, and makes the game more vivid while leaving the essence unchanged. I foresee many objections here, particularly from those for whom taking the Dragon Utopia on the second or third week is simply a set of routine movements brought to semi-automation. To this I will argue that it will be even more interesting when taking the Dragon Utopia is a more creative task every time, where another parameter—experience (alongside strength and quantity)—is added to the calculation. Indeed, isn't a pikeman who has gone through fire and water with you in the first days, when you were small and weak, dearer to you than some well-fed picker on the 3rd week who joined your army when everything was already ready? :)
  4. When making changes to the essence of the game, try to maximize the factor of independence from a specific template (certain types of templates); keep in mind that templates are a derivative of the game, rather than vice versa.
P.S.
to Dreamcatcher - regarding this post:
Perhaps it would have been (would be) worth classifying changes by type more detailedly and introducing definitions, because imho SOMETIMES it turns out like: I am FOR (because the interface is more convenient), but I am AGAINST (because they changed the game itself, probably).

offtop (response to the remark above):
As I understand it, the ongoing "Favorites into Battle" championship is fan-made and unofficial, just a way to relax and play with your favorite castle. I'm cool with that.
+1. If you want—it's a game festival, a carnival of the soul—clearly with sporting excitement, but in moderation. But heating up the atmosphere, saying things like "you're losers if you don't win with Necromancers"—is not gut, again imho.
Стратегия - искусство возможного.

Первое правило форума :
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И не оспаривай глупца" (с)

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Offline Phenix3
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#55
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To be honest, I don't quite understand why some people are against Total Enhancement (TE) and what it means to bring it closer to the Standard Order of Development (SOD). Almost everything in TE can be turned on or off, and you can also customize the most convenient settings. By turning everything off, you get almost the same SOD with the TE interface (the difference is practically imperceptible), and you don't even need to read anything... As for the installation, I can provide a small instruction and files for download. For players who play at 160-200% difficulty, map generation is very important in TE; maps are created more balanced, and regeneration is required less often – this alone is a reason to switch to TE. TE allows you to play with greater convenience, balance, and any conditions you want; you can turn War of the Gods (WOG) settings on or off (WOG without TE is something you can really argue about whether it's needed). As for the bank, I don't know why everyone is so against it... it doesn't seem to allow you to give too much anyway... before a major battle? Hehe... are you planning to kill each other right away? ;) The bank is intended for other situations (players who often play at 200% will probably understand me) ;)
But I didn't put a checkmark for the bank, let it be as you wish ;)
є(°¤°)э Мадара где-то рядом...
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Offline AndreyALN
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#56
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Phenix3;149351
Could you please provide a small instruction and download files for installation?
There are files with instructions, but practice shows that many people struggle to install and localize WoG, and then TE, on their own :D. The reason is usually confusion between the original WoG and the so-called pirated version that was once sold on disks:mad:. It was unfinished, and many people have it installed, and they think that's WoG, but it's not, and TE can't be installed on it; it causes glitches, and that's why many can't try TE. Also, the archive is often unpacked incorrectly from the official website.
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Offline Phenix3
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#57
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So, those aren't the right instructions or files. :) I assume everyone has Heroes 3: The Shadow of Death, right? 1. Download the small files for Fog and Te. 2. Put everything in the update folder. 3. Run the update installation file. 4. Wait for the result. :) I installed it on several computers, it took a while, but it worked without any problems...
є(°¤°)э Мадара где-то рядом...
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Offline Dust_HL
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#58
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Nagan-4;148795
The main question that no one from the TE team has ever answered for me is: what exactly is TE?
And where are you looking for your answers?

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCE - HERE!

What is TE, what ideas does it contain, what was its purpose and for whom was it created, how to install it, and so on! Instead of playing a game of telephone with "smart guys" who often don't understand what's going on!
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Offline Wicc
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#59
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In my opinion, this is not a very promising idea.

Human experience in standardizing various areas shows that reconciling two standards by creating a third, compromise standard is much less successful than creating a third standard that competes with the first two.

And in this case, I think that's exactly what will happen. The "players" will still not leave TE, their number will only increase due to SoD players and just new people, and the outflow will only occur due to people who have completely lost interest in Heroes.

And true SoD players, who fundamentally do not switch to TE, usually have other main reasons than moving the word to the second level and putting TP in the fire. Their position is also understandable. And for them (not for everyone, but for many), this hybrid has the same disadvantages as full TE - it is different, it is not SoD, it needs to be installed, it needs to be studied, etc. And if there is no difference, why pay more? Similarly, for TE players, this hybrid has the same disadvantages as SoD - it lacks many convenient and familiar things, it lacks the scale that TE Tournaments have, etc.

In principle, I see the only benefit of the hybrid in gradual adaptation. Approximately like in a zoo, where they first mix food with ants for anteaters, then mix ants with food, and then give them only food.

But in this case, even this benefit is very doubtful. It would be much easier and more effective to have a clear separation - those who want to play SoD play SoD, and those who want to play TE play TE. And for both, there are tournaments, there are gaming partners, and there is minimal discomfort. The mediator between the sheriff and the Indians usually gets it from both sides.
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Offline Loi
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#61
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Wicc;149787
In my opinion, this is not a very promising idea.

Human experience in standardizing various areas shows that reconciling two standards by creating a third, compromise standard is much less successful than creating a third standard that competes with the first two.

And in this case, I think that's exactly what will happen. The "players" will still not leave TE, their number will only increase due to SoD players and just new people, and the outflow will only be due to people who have completely lost interest in Heroes.

And true SoD players, who fundamentally do not switch to TE, usually have other main reasons than moving a word to the second level or putting TP in the fire. Their position is also understandable. And for them (not for everyone, but for many), this hybrid has the same disadvantages as full TE - it is different, it is not SoD, it needs to be installed, it needs to be studied, etc. And if there is no difference, why pay more? Similarly, for TE players, this hybrid has the same disadvantages as SoD - it lacks many convenient and familiar things, it lacks the scale that TE tournaments have, etc.

In principle, I see the only benefit of the hybrid in gradual adaptation. Approximately like in a zoo, where they first mix food with ants for anteaters, then they mix ants with food, and then they give only food.

But in this case, even this benefit is very doubtful. It would be much easier and more effective to have a clear separation - those who want to play SoD play SoD, and those who want to play TE play TE. And for both, there are tournaments, there are gaming partners, and there is minimal discomfort. The mediator between the sheriff and the Indians usually gets it from both sides.

In my opinion, this is a poorly substantiated post with a hint of provocation. I wrote objections to almost every statement, then deleted them - otherwise, I would have taken the bait. I also urge all forum members not to be consumed by righteous anger and not to give in, thus avoiding a flood of posts spanning dozens of pages.
I have absolutely nothing against the author of the post, the clever Wicc,
whose game reports from HB I read and admire; it would be even better if his comments and posts were the same.
Slightly off-topic: but user Старик seems to be on point; judging by his decisions and statements, he stands by his words - I would be glad to hear his opinion.
P.S. We are all fans of this great game, and we should help each other, not try to harass and belittle each other. :)
Стратегия - искусство возможного.

Первое правило форума :
"Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно
И не оспаривай глупца" (с)

Новичкам: ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО перечитайте ВЕСЬ первый пост по нижеприведенной ссылке и 90% ваших вопросов отпадут( на остальные 10% с удовольствием отвечу):
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Offline Wicc
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#62
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loi;149996
In my opinion, this is a poorly substantiated post with a hint of provocation. I wrote objections to almost every statement, then deleted them – otherwise, it seems like I took the bait. I also urge all forum users not to be consumed by righteous anger and not to give in, thus avoiding a flood of pointless chatter spanning dozens of pages.
I have absolutely nothing against the author of the post, the clever Wicc,
whose reports on games with HB I read and admire; it would be even better if his comments and posts were the same.
Slightly off-topic: but the user Starik – everything is on point; judging by his decisions and statements, he stands by his words – I would be glad to hear his opinion.
P.S. We are all fans of this great game, and we should help each other, not try to harass and belittle each other. :)
:D
http://www.novosib.ru/more/?id=24
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