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In reply to Рыцарь света
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#106
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Knight of Light;142343

Dude, you probably confused morale with luck, then your statement will be correct.;)
Dude, you probably don't quite understand what "double damage" means... ;) The problem is that the game tooltip doesn't explain this term, and many people misunderstand it.

The thing is, when Luck triggers, it doesn't double the final damage, but only adds the base damage to the total (i.e., doubles the base damage). And the base damage usually makes up only a small part of the overall damage.
Knight of Light;142343
Imagine: a Knight of Darkness (with its ability to deal double damage) attacks with luck. Now imagine how much damage it will do? Quadruple! I remember something like that happening. It was fun. Those who were attacked by knights (I don't remember who their victims were) fell from just one such hit.
This is simply a common misconception. Let me give an example - a Death Knight controlled by a hero with 40 Attack units hits some Centaur. Suppose the Knight has the "Double Damage" skill activated, as well as luck in the same round. Calculation of the final damage he deals to the Centaur looks approximately like this:

20 HP (base damage, it can be between 15-30 HP) + 55 HP (the difference between the Knight's attack and the Centaur's defense) + 20 HP (we add base damage due to the Knight's skill) + 20 HP (Luck also added base damage) = 115 HP. Of these, luck and the skill brought only 17% of the damage each. So where is the quadruple damage?

And if morale triggers, you can deal another 20 HP (base) + 55 HP (the difference between the Knight's attack and the Centaur's defense) = 75 HP, which is much more effective than luck, which only brought 20 HP. That is, in the case of morale triggering, on average, you can inflict about the same amount of damage again. (I say "on average" because sometimes it's less, and sometimes more). In the case of luck - only its part is added...

This is why I think that sometimes it is worth listening to other players, instead of making unsubstantiated statements... Reiter said everything correctly.
Сначала было слово...
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#107
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Read the earlier posts in the thread. They concluded that Morale is good when you need to defeat two groups of enemies, and Luck is good when you need to defeat one group without taking any damage.
Sub specie aeternitatis.

Под знаком вечности.

In reply to AmberSoler
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#109
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AmberSoler;142512
Dude, you probably don't quite understand what "double damage" means... ;) The problem is that the game tooltip doesn't explain this term, and many people misunderstand it.

The thing is, when Luck triggers, it doesn't double the final damage; instead, it only adds the base damage to the total (i.e., the base damage is doubled). And the base damage usually makes up only a small part of the overall damage.

This is just a common misconception. Let me give an example: a Death Knight controlled by a hero with 40 Attack points attacks some Centaur. Suppose the Death Knight has the "Double Damage" ability trigger, as well as luck in the same round. Calculating the final damage he will inflict on the Centaur looks something like this:

20 HP (base damage, which can range from 15-30 HP) + 55 HP (the difference between the Death Knight's attack and the Centaur's defense) + 20 HP (adding base damage due to the Death Knight's ability) + 20 HP (Luck also added base damage) = 115 HP. Of these, luck and the ability contributed only 17% each. So where is the quadrupling of damage?

And if morale triggers, you can deal another 20 HP (base) + 55 HP (the difference between the Death Knight's attack and the Centaur's defense) = 75 HP, which is much more effective than luck, which only brought 20 HP. That is, when morale occurs, on average, you can deal about the same amount of damage again. (I say "on average" because sometimes it's less, and sometimes it's more). In the case of luck triggering, only its part is added...

This is why I think that sometimes it's worth listening to other players instead of making unsubstantiated claims... Reiter was right.

Where did you get those formulas from? Trust me, in my case (by the way, in that battle, the casualties from the knights' attacks were my troops), the knights wouldn't have been able to take down those victims with a single hit. Believe me, even at a glance, it was clear that they simply couldn't.
Your formula may be correct; I won't argue since I haven't encountered this myself, but they wouldn't have taken them down...

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But overall, it's still good to have both. Well, maybe some people disagree, but that's just my taste. I love when my hero is an expert in all magics and wisdom and also has morale and luck.
It's a pity that such heroes are very vulnerable. I mean, there are artifacts that reduce the enemy hero's morale or luck, and then these abilities become just a waste of skill slots.
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#110
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Yes, I also think that the topic has run its course.
In reply to Рыцарь света
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#111
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Knight of Light;142573
Where did you get these formulas from?
All these formulas are in the game. You launch it, read the logs, and decipher the actual damage dealt when Luck triggers. You can take Naga for simplicity - she has constant damage.
Knight of Light;142573
Believe me, in my case (by the way, in that battle, the warriors who fell from the Knights' attack were mine), the Knights wouldn't have been able to take down those targets with a single hit. Believe me, even at a glance, it was clear that they couldn't.
If you ever need to delve a little deeper into this issue, you might change your mind. And if you don't, maybe that's for the best; it's not that important anyway. I wasn't expressing my own opinion, but my observations... :)
Knight of Light;142573
It's a pity that such units are very vulnerable. I mean, there are artifacts that reduce the morale or luck of the enemy hero, and then these abilities become just a waste of skill slots.
But agree, when these abilities are present in the enemy, and you have the opportunity to neutralize them, then it's not a pity, but very good. So, there should be a countermeasure for every strength to maintain the game's balance of power.
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#112
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Why is it considered stupid to just fill slots? Is there a difference if your morality is zero or -3?
Каждый может быть героем ...
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#113
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Starhan, read more carefully. I wasn't saying that morale doesn't play a role or that it's a useless skill, but rather that if, for example, you have the Leadership skill and I have the "Spirit of Despair" artifact, then your Leadership will be meaningless in battle, right? I can also cast a spell on all your creatures that lowers their morale ("Sadness"), and the same thing will happen. The same can be done with luck – I can cast a spell that lowers luck, and your skill will become useless. That's what I was talking about.

AmberSoler, you know, I don't really want to delve into the game to such a detailed extent. It's not necessary to know that, the most important thing is that I understood you and will keep it in mind. Thank you for that. I've now changed my opinion about luck.
In reply to Cheri@
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#114
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Cheri@;142556
Morality rules. You can choose who to attack second. Luck doesn't offer a choice and is also effectively weaker.
Read the post that comes before yours....
Sub specie aeternitatis.

Под знаком вечности.

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#115
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Playing mostly as Necromancers, I've completely forgotten about morality. That's why now I always take Luck.
#116
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and what about...? both are needed:))
you just need to know when what is needed... sometimes luck helps, and sometimes fighting spirit is better than any luck!
Although, it depends on personal preference...) I rely more on fighting spirit)) because luck might not be on your side ;)
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#117
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Luck is better, in my opinion. For example:
A) We have a well-developed Battle Defense (BD): our troops attack, and they are repelled. Then they attack again, and are not repelled. Unless, of course, they are griffins. ;)
B) We have well-developed luck: our troops hit, deal more damage, => the counterattack will be smaller, which is already very good. And if they attack griffins, they won't even get a second chance to counterattack. ;)
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In reply to Amko
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#118
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it all depends on the version of Heroes:
luck rules in the second and fifth Heroes games
morale is present in all parts...
but still, I'm for luck:rolleyes:
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#119
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IMHO, these two bonuses are equally valuable; it depends on what each player prefers.
In reply to Amko
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#120
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I wanted to reply, but everything has already been said for me :) Thank you, Sir AmberSoler.
Night Nazgul;145501
Luck is better, in my opinion. Example: A) We have a well-developed Defense skill: our troops attack, they are repelled. Then they attack again, and are not repelled. Unless, of course, it's griffins. ;) B) We have a well-developed Luck skill: our troops hit, deal more damage => the counterattack will be smaller, which is already very good. And if they attack griffins, they won't even get a second counterattack. ;)
Bad example. In almost all cases, you can remove the counterattack in advance with a single unit, and not take any damage at all. In the worst case, you can simply blind the monster ;)
Quod licet Jovi, non licet Bovi