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Posts from We’ve turned into a Hive, things are getting serious.Auto-translated
It's like a joke, but it's true in real life. A job that requires long training, some intelligence, and talent is valued as a job that requires nothing but not being mentally retarded or disabled. And all because a bunch of assholes who have a computer decided to jump in and undercut prices.
I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but I'll share my personal understanding.
I can't even imagine the possibility of undercutting in this situation, and I don't think these people are to blame. The only one to blame is aggressive marketing. There are a lot of low-quality courses that create false expectations and overheat the junior market. It's bad for everyone, both for the workers and for the employers, who waste a lot of time trying to find the right person in this sea of applicants. And what is undercutting like? I can only imagine two scenarios, and I don't see it in either of them. Either the company is looking for someone to replace someone who has left. This is already a certain rate or salary range, and it doesn't actually depend on the applicant's wishes. The second option is a new vacancy. And what in this case? The logic is, "Well, there are plenty of juniors, so we'll set a low rate"? No, of course not. The main goal is not to save money, but to find a specialist who will work well.
And here's another point. The initial selection is done by technical specialists, who are not allowed to discuss salary expectations at all. The applicant cannot undercut at this stage. They can only show their skills. It is only then that they may be rejected due to high requirements if the company is not willing to offer such a salary, and that's it.
And the fact that people without experience are willing to consider a low salary in order to get their foot in the door is, in my opinion, a perfectly normal situation, both now and 10 years ago. I would do the same myself.
В тихой однообразной жизни всегда так бывает: каждый отдельный день бесконечно долог, но месяцы и годы мчатся с непостижимой быстротой.
I wanted to offer you some flowers, but a crown would suit a princess like you much better
Смысл жизни в том, что жизнь на тебе не заканчивается
I don't know, but when I was looking for a job, HR people filtered me out in 146 out of 100 cases. However, the actual interviews were conducted with future managers, but only after the HR people had presented my resume to them. And it's interesting, if it's not profitable for employers to offer low wages, where do all these billions of job postings come from, offering internships for 10,000 rubles or even for free?
I can't even imagine the possibility of price dumping in this situation, and I don't think these people are to blame. Only aggressive marketing is to blame. There are a lot of low-quality courses that create false expectations among people and overheat the junior market. It's bad for everyone, both for hard-working people and for employers who waste a lot of time trying to find the right person in this sea.
I mean, of course, there's no conscious price dumping, if you meant blame in that context. I just used the term неудачно. In short, the point is that there are, say, 10 people for 1 position, the employer sees this, and accordingly lowers the salary, ignores working conditions, and so on. It's a simple case of supply and demand. And it doesn't matter that 9 out of 10 can't write or read, they've entered the market and lowered the salary of the one who can work. And you know what else? Experienced people don't go anywhere. IT specialists can work until they're 80. Do I need to say that the oldest of them are now, at best, 60 years old? There are more and more people, the growth in the number of IT specialists exceeds the growth of the market, otherwise salaries and working conditions would not fall so sharply, especially in the CIS. Author
No, of course. The main goal is not to save money, but to find a specialist who will work well.
Well, Medzh, don't exaggerate) You made a funny point about working well)) In an ideal world, there would be ideal people. The main goal is to make a profit. That's it. It doesn't matter how. If profit can be made by selling the lowest quality product, most entrepreneurs won't care about anything else. I'm not even talking about the fact that not all owners can or want to control their company, this function is often performed by managers, who, by the way, may have their own goals. Author
And here's another point. The initial selection is carried out by technical specialists, who are not allowed to discuss salary expectations at all. The applicant cannot undercut the price at this stage. They can only demonstrate their skills. It is only later that they may be rejected due to excessive requirements if the company is not ready to offer such a salary. That's all.
The initial selection is carried out by an HR person with psychology courses behind them, who takes into account the importance of the zodiac sign and does a tarot card reading. It's a separate topic. Author
And the fact that people without experience are willing to accept a low salary in order to get their foot in the door is, in my opinion, a perfectly normal situation, both now and 10 years ago. I would do the same.
That's not the point. 10 years ago, with my current portfolio, I could easily get a job without a billion unpaid test assignments. I have relatives who got into IT in the 00s and 10s, at the best time. Now they are mid-level/senior developers in foreign companies. I know how they lived/worked. Yes, they are not fools and not lazy, but they are not the kind of people who worked day and night without weekends. They didn't bust their asses to get this. They just worked and grew in the process. Now I can't do that. I need to bust my ass not to get into a foreign company, but just to get a job in a CIS company for a bowl of rice. That's the point. That's why I personally will no longer work in this field unless absolutely necessary.
Небо – мольбы не ждёт Небо – угроз не слышит Небо – ведёт особый счёт Небо – тебя найдёт
Go to the Haven; there are ogres there, and they are unhappy.
Meanwhile, Paladin Vovchik has completed Act 1. It's quite challenging to play as a Paladin; you have to constantly switch between auras. There are many combat skills, unlike the one-button Barbarian. And, by the way, there are no passive skills at all.
Drakkosha, aren't you thinking about getting surgery? With your stats, I would only think about that.
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения! И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения! И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but I'll express my personal opinion.
I can't even imagine the possibility of undercutting in this situation, and I don't think these people are to blame. Only aggressive marketing is to blame. A bunch of low-quality courses create false expectations and overheat the junior market. It's bad for everyone, both for the workers and for the employers, who waste a lot of time trying to find the right person in this sea of candidates. And what is undercutting? I can only imagine two scenarios, and I don't find it in either. Either the company is looking for someone to replace someone who has left. This is already a certain rate or salary range, and it doesn't actually depend on the applicant's wishes. The second option is a new vacancy. And what about that? The logic is, "Well, there are plenty of juniors, so we'll offer a low rate"? No, of course not. The main goal is not to save money, but to find a specialist who will do a good job.
And here's another point. The initial selection is done by technical specialists, who are not allowed to discuss salary expectations. The applicant cannot undercut at this stage. They can only demonstrate their skills. It is only later that they may be rejected due to excessive demands if the company is not willing to offer such a salary.
And the fact that people without experience are willing to accept a low salary in order to get their foot in the door is, in my opinion, a perfectly normal situation, both now and 10 years ago. I would do the same.
In many companies, especially for IT positions, the salary is determined not by a pre-formed budget, but by the results of the interview. In some companies, they don't even state the rate, but directly ask, "How much do you plan to earn per month?" And if the candidate is articulate and can create a false impression (I've also heard about remote interviews where a monkey with courses and weak experience pretends to be the applicant, and an experienced friend does the test assignment for them, if they have one and are willing to help for free), then such a seemingly pleasant candidate will easily get a high salary based on the interview results. At the same time, there are experienced IT specialists who are very modest and reserved, and when asked about the salary, they will say how much they earned at their previous job, and they will then be offered at best 5-10 thousand more than before, while their value may be as high as 300k.
In principle, I can say that I have personally encountered situations where employers cheat on salaries because of this very question. For example, a few years ago, at a factory, they asked me, and I replied that I would not agree to less than 35-40k. As a result, it turned out to be about 37 per month after taxes. Later, a girl joined the team in another department, who had a workload of 100k+, but she hesitated during the interview and said that she would be happy with 30k. As a result, that's exactly what they offered her. Or a more "recent" case. A friend, an IT specialist, initially without the necessary experience and education (only self-education and experience in a call center), got a job in technical support in Moscow at a company that provides services for software and servers for MFCs, schools, and other government agencies. Initially, he was given a salary of 75k with the condition that after the probationary period, it would be increased to 85. Later, they hesitated, and for several months they didn't raise it. When they realized that he was ready to leave, they offered him 100. Gradually, over 2 years of work, they raised it to 130. He thought about leaving for a long time, but the New Year's bonus of 250k kept him going. There were several other specialists in his position, and they were all forbidden to discuss salaries (everyone except him was kept in the office, and there was constant monitoring of what they were doing, what they were writing in their personal Telegrams, etc.). As a result, when he and a couple of colleagues decided to leave, and everyone stopped caring about the ban, it turned out that he was the only one who received such a salary and New Year's bonus. The rest were still paid 75-85 (one of them didn't forget to ask for a salary increase after passing the probationary period, the second hesitated), and their New Year's bonuses were about 30k. So, unfortunately, in the current realities, the salary is formed not only by the employer's offer, but also by how well the employee "sells" themselves.
Well, Medzh, don't exaggerate. You made a funny point about working well. In an ideal world, that's how ideal people would behave. The main goal is to make a profit. That's it. It doesn't matter how. If profit can be made by selling the lowest quality product, most entrepreneurs won't care about anything else. And I'm not even talking about the fact that not all owners can or want to control their business; this function is often performed by managers, who, by the way, may have their own goals.
Nebok knows what he's talking about. Sir, have you ever worked in sales?
Nebok
The initial selection is done by an HR person with psychology courses under their belt, who takes into account the importance of the zodiac sign and does a tarot card reading. It's a whole separate topic.
And that's not even mentioning the fact that nowadays, most companies have questionnaires for candidates that are initially filtered by a neural network, where the filtering is often done poorly. And this HR person may not even find out about the existence of the ideal candidate simply because the robot won't let them through.
I haven't encountered bots like that because I hid my profile a long time ago to avoid being seen. Back in the early 2010s, when I wanted to leave the confectionery, I created an open profile, and I was flooded with spam. They especially liked to invite me to the position I already held, rather than the one listed in my profile. At that time, I wanted to become a copywriter. Now I think it's a good thing it didn't work out; half of the texts at our company are written by AI. We still hire copywriters, but only occasionally. But if someone had told me back then that I would be working as a marketer and enjoying it, I wouldn't have believed it 🤣
Even with that, there were some funny moments during my job search. I wrote to one company for a content manager position, and they replied: "No, you're not a good fit for us; maybe we'll hire you for the administrative department?" Guys, if my experience includes administrative work, and I'm applying for a content manager position, what does that tell you? I laughed and ignored those smart guys.
MedjersoN_HP
Небо
