We’ve turned into a Hive, things are getting serious. Auto-translated

I don't answer provocative questions 😎

And I live by the tenets of Ivan Dorn's song and I'm not ashamed

Deprotred, of course.

It's like some kind of Gothic Arcanum. Try beating Street Fighter 3.

No, Gothic is a different game. Arcanum has steampunk elements.
I don't like SF.

It's definitely a depressing thread.

A depressing thread in a depressing section of a depressing forum full of depressing inhabitants of this depressing space in this depressing world in this depressing era.

Yeah, right. And I won't be participating in any more of these expansions...

Come on, we're getting along just fine.

Yeah. And I won't set foot in those experience-grinding areas again...

aaanywho	1916
Grumpy Lizard	1077
AstralLein	744
Happy Life	731
Heroist	692
Graf Orlov	426
Nebo	384
Drakkoska	234
Arandor	230
Ment	119
Siverfale	16
Neiko	3
BumBodia145	1

I believe you.

This is what the top players of the previous Revan expansion looked like. And where are all these people now...?

I hope they come back; it’s very sad without them.

Yes, I especially miss Jopaorca. I wonder how he is doing; I haven't logged in for a while...

^ same

I thought it was some Portuguese guy, but now I'm reading it more carefully.

It's like a joke, but it's true in real life. A job that requires long training, some intelligence, and talent is valued as a job that requires nothing but not being mentally retarded or disabled. And all because a bunch of assholes who have a computer decided to jump in and undercut prices.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but I'll share my personal understanding.

I can't even imagine the possibility of undercutting in this situation, and I don't think these people are to blame.
The only one to blame is aggressive marketing. There are a lot of low-quality courses that create false expectations and overheat the junior market. It's bad for everyone, both for the workers and for the employers, who waste a lot of time trying to find the right person in this sea of applicants.
And what is undercutting like? I can only imagine two scenarios, and I don't see it in either of them. Either the company is looking for someone to replace someone who has left. This is already a certain rate or salary range, and it doesn't actually depend on the applicant's wishes. The second option is a new vacancy. And what in this case? The logic is, "Well, there are plenty of juniors, so we'll set a low rate"? No, of course not. The main goal is not to save money, but to find a specialist who will work well.

And here's another point. The initial selection is done by technical specialists, who are not allowed to discuss salary expectations at all. The applicant cannot undercut at this stage. They can only show their skills. It is only then that they may be rejected due to high requirements if the company is not willing to offer such a salary, and that's it.

And the fact that people without experience are willing to consider a low salary in order to get their foot in the door is, in my opinion, a perfectly normal situation, both now and 10 years ago. I would do the same myself.

I don't know, but when I was looking for a job, HR people filtered me out in 146 out of 100 cases. However, the actual interviews were conducted with future managers, but only after the HR people had presented my resume to them. And it's interesting, if it's not profitable for employers to offer low wages, where do all these billions of job postings come from, offering internships for 10,000 rubles or even for free?

I can't even imagine the possibility of price dumping in this situation, and I don't think these people are to blame.
Only aggressive marketing is to blame. There are a lot of low-quality courses that create false expectations among people and overheat the junior market. It's bad for everyone, both for hard-working people and for employers who waste a lot of time trying to find the right person in this sea.

I mean, of course, there's no conscious price dumping, if you meant blame in that context. I just used the term неудачно. In short, the point is that there are, say, 10 people for 1 position, the employer sees this, and accordingly lowers the salary, ignores working conditions, and so on. It's a simple case of supply and demand. And it doesn't matter that 9 out of 10 can't write or read, they've entered the market and lowered the salary of the one who can work. And you know what else? Experienced people don't go anywhere. IT specialists can work until they're 80. Do I need to say that the oldest of them are now, at best, 60 years old? There are more and more people, the growth in the number of IT specialists exceeds the growth of the market, otherwise salaries and working conditions would not fall so sharply, especially in the CIS.

No, of course. The main goal is not to save money, but to find a specialist who will work well.

Well, Medzh, don't exaggerate) You made a funny point about working well)) In an ideal world, there would be ideal people. The main goal is to make a profit. That's it. It doesn't matter how. If profit can be made by selling the lowest quality product, most entrepreneurs won't care about anything else. I'm not even talking about the fact that not all owners can or want to control their company, this function is often performed by managers, who, by the way, may have their own goals.

And here's another point. The initial selection is carried out by technical specialists, who are not allowed to discuss salary expectations at all. The applicant cannot undercut the price at this stage. They can only demonstrate their skills. It is only later that they may be rejected due to excessive requirements if the company is not ready to offer such a salary. That's all.

The initial selection is carried out by an HR person with psychology courses behind them, who takes into account the importance of the zodiac sign and does a tarot card reading. It's a separate topic.

And the fact that people without experience are willing to accept a low salary in order to get their foot in the door is, in my opinion, a perfectly normal situation, both now and 10 years ago. I would do the same.

That's not the point. 10 years ago, with my current portfolio, I could easily get a job without a billion unpaid test assignments. I have relatives who got into IT in the 00s and 10s, at the best time. Now they are mid-level/senior developers in foreign companies. I know how they lived/worked. Yes, they are not fools and not lazy, but they are not the kind of people who worked day and night without weekends. They didn't bust their asses to get this. They just worked and grew in the process. Now I can't do that. I need to bust my ass not to get into a foreign company, but just to get a job in a CIS company for a bowl of rice. That's the point. That's why I personally will no longer work in this field unless absolutely necessary.